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For FuzzyGreen and others prefering the "freedom" of the US

After reading the following

quote:

Many of the europeans on this thread are use to living with censorship so they probably will be all for it, as for myself, I'm a libertarian and believe that freedom is the most important rule of a government.

by FuzzyGreen in igottaknows thread, I happened to come by this story:
Story
Do you really think that you live in a free country?

Yes. Is this a trick question?

Let's not forget the PATRIOT act either. From what I hear I do have more liberties here than I would if I were to move to the US.

That being said, most western countries are suffering from civil liberties & human rights abuses at the moment in my mind, down here in Australia ASIO is getting some unnecessary (and somewhat disturbing imho) powers at the moment. It isn't just US citizens suffering from loss of freedoms.

Hey man, I'm not going to touch FuzzyGreen's post with a ten foot pole.

nothin against the guy but I'm a realist.

Re: For FuzzyGreen and others prefering the "freedom" of the US

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic After reading the following by FuzzyGreen in igottaknows thread, I happened to come by this story: Story Do you really think that you live in a free country?

I know you don't believe it's okay and somehow freedom for a 15 year old to post nude pics of herself for sick, disgusting pervs to look at. Granted where is the parents of her mind you. I know what you mean as far as her being arrested, frankly the kid needs help for her future career in the porn industry only 3 more years for her. I just believe that you are making more of this story than there is to it. There is much more examples of freedoms in America being shoved aside by Bush's corporate Inc.

As for freedoms I live just fine in America, no plans to look at child porn anytime soon. Don't know what Fuzzy was speaking of when it comes to Europe and censorship though. Just a bit off base

I'll take the US any day, where I have my constituationally guaranteed freedom of speech, my jury trial, my low income tax rates, and my right to own enough firearms to take over Luxembourg on my lunch break.

The only reasons people don't seem to understand the freedoms that we have is because the world press looks at America, and nitpicks the hell out of every little thing. If any European nation was under the same scrutiny as America, you'd find a lot more crap to worry about.

I never said that the United States was really free. In fact, I wish we had a lot less laws, there are too many. I'm a libertarian (like the founding fathers of the US) and I believe that absolute freedom is the most important goal of any government.

National defense should also be up there with freedom as the most important goal of any government.

US is less free then it used to be..small example..look what happened with the janet jackson superbawl incident...everything is censored now and u cant say anything any more..

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic US is less free then it used to be..small example..look what happened with the janet jackson superbawl incident...everything is censored now and u cant say anything any more..

I agree.

imo europe seems much freeer than USA.

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I never said that the United States was really free. In fact, I wish we had a lot less laws, there are too many.

Ok, then this thread is apparently in vain. However, I would like for you to come up with an example of censorship in Europe - supporting your statement?!?

imokruok: In Denmark we do not use juries (which so far hasn't led to any problems, though), but other than that, you have to come up with a better example than owning guns, if you want to argue that the US is a more free country than European countries. I fail to see how low taxes are connected to freedom btw.?

I'm not saying that we Europeans enjoy bigger degrees of freedom than you Americans. We are restrained by bureaucracy where you are restrained by religion and misguided patriotism.
But do not kid yourself: The press over here is not hibernating - we have our fair share of spotlight on stupid laws, power abuse and the like. It may be that these news never propagate beyond the Atlantic, though.


Occ, Q5, and NYC: Why are you guys even replying here? You have yet to outsmart yourselves with ill-backed up claims on Europe, as far as I am aware?


On the story I linked to: I linked to that story because it basically said that you can be charged for masturbating if you are below the age of 18. Having the right to masturbate - no matter your age - is a necessary part of my definition of freedom, and outlawing it is something I would only expect from fundamentalist regimes like the Taliban.
As a side note, it is kind of sad that the girl is deemed to young to be a sex symbol but old enough to stand trial...

What about my right to freedom to ban I/P words?

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Occ, Q5, and NYC: Why are you guys even replying here? You have yet to outsmart yourselves with ill-backed up claims on Europe, as far as I am aware? On the story I linked to: I linked to that story because it basically said that you can be charged for masturbating if you are below the age of 18. Having the right to masturbate - no matter your age - is a necessary part of my definition of freedom, and outlawing it is something I would only expect from fundamentalist regimes like the Taliban. As a side note, it is kind of sad that the girl is deemed to young to be a sex symbol but old enough to stand trial...

I am completely lost and aghast as to your post about ill-backed up claims on Europe. I am replying here because I have the freedom to If you are looking for an anti-European American or believe me to be one then keep searching the forum because I would be a waste of your time. I have nothing but lots of love for Europe and actually have a deep interest in European culture, news, languages,etc. I for one know that the idea of censorship in Europe is ludicrous, at the same point in time you would believe that America was Iran based on your claims of lack of freedoms. While I have zero respect for the Bush government left, I wouldn't hop on the fence of mindless claims of lack of freedoms because of one jackass president and his admin. America is bigger than that and I would hope so are the viewpoints expressed from my European counterparts about American freedoms.

P.S. as a matter of fact one of my fav. news websites is DR Nyheder being Danish you know it, try as well Deutsche Welle, RTL.de, SR(Radio Sweden), Radio Netherlands, the always venerable BBC, NRK Forsida(Norway) and the list goes on. My point for mentioning this is that I don't just get my news from Fox as so many believe about Americans

NYC: Yes, I know you feel that way. That was why I wrote

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Occ, Q5, and NYC: Why are you guys even replying here? You have yet to outsmart yourselves with ill-backed up claims on Europe, as far as I am aware?

as in: "You have not made any claims on Europe that you did not back up. This thread was a challenge to those who think the US is a sole outpost of freedom in this world, and that Europe is some kind of totalitarian communist region".
Maybe I am being unclear in my comments. In that case, please bear with me - the finer points of the English language and the associated semantics are not that easy to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan P.S. as a matter of fact one of my fav. news websites is DR Nyheder being Danish you know it, try as well Deutsche Welle, RTL.de, SR(Radio Sweden), Radio Netherlands, the always venerable BBC, NRK Forsida(Norway) and the list goes on. My point for mentioning this is that I don't just get my news from Fox as so many believe about Americans

ohh shit i frist thought that you knew all those languages! hehe... or do you? if that's the case i'm REALLY impressed.. =)

guess not though cause they all exists in english too

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic NYC: Yes, I know you feel that way. That was why I wrote as in: "You have not made any claims on Europe that you did not back up. This thread was a challenge to those who think the US is a sole outpost of freedom in this world, and that Europe is some kind of totalitarian communist region". Maybe I am being unclear in my comments. In that case, please bear with me - the finer points of the English language and the associated semantics are not that easy to learn.

Oops I was a bit quick to the gun there, you were actually acknowledging my interests in Europe, therefore I indeed stand corrected in my text to you. I guess it was indeed something lost in the linguistic jargon. My bad trancaholic.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew ohh shit i frist thought that you knew all those languages! hehe... or do you? if that's the case i'm REALLY impressed.. =) guess not though cause they all exists in english too

Actually I can speak German, French, Italian and Spanish, along with a minor bit of Dutch(too gluttoral). I am believe it or not working on Norwegian, and then Danish and Swedish, since those two are mutually intellegible to Norwegian I decided to learn that first. I might soon be speaking to you or trancaholic in your respective forums. Strange an American speaking German, Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish and the Scandanavian languages, can you say Enigma Chalk it up to my love of human cultures for learning languages.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Actually I can speak German, French, Italian and Spanish, along with a minor bit of Dutch(too gluttoral). I am believe it or not working on Norwegian, and then Danish and Swedish, since those two are mutually intellegible to Norwegian I decided to learn that first. I might soon be speaking to you or trancaholic in your respective forums. Strange an American speaking German, Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish and the Scandanavian languages, can you say Enigma Chalk it up to my love of human cultures for learning languages.

ehh

Swedish and Norwegian are close. Danish isnt really like either, tho perhaps somewhat similar to Norwegian. Good luck tho, Ive been working on Swedish for 4 years and I still dont get it completely, despite the fact the overall bits and bobs arent too difficult!

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Actually I can speak German, French, Italian and Spanish, along with a minor bit of Dutch(too gluttoral). I am believe it or not working on Norwegian, and then Danish and Swedish, since those two are mutually intellegible to Norwegian I decided to learn that first. I might soon be speaking to you or trancaholic in your respective forums. Strange an American speaking German, Dutch, French, Italian, Spanish and the Scandanavian languages, can you say Enigma Chalk it up to my love of human cultures for learning languages.

hehe, i am impressed looking forward to see you in the swedish section

quote:

Originally posted by biznology ehh Swedish and Norwegian are close. Danish isnt really like either, tho perhaps somewhat similar to Norwegian. Good luck tho, Ive been working on Swedish for 4 years and I still dont get it completely, despite the fact the overall bits and bobs arent too difficult!

hehe, indeed, swedish is a really hard language, i don't even understand it

and yeah, danish is fucking impossible to understand! at least spoken danish... though it seems like people learning swedish have easier to understand danish so there is hope =)

i am not totally sure, but isn't swedish more close to norweigian and danish than norweigian is close to danish and swedish?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew and yeah, danish is fucking impossible to understand! at least spoken danish... though it seems like people learning swedish have easier to understand danish so there is hope =)

I took part in a video conference between 4 danes and 3 swedes, and it was a joke. There was one old guy (>50 years) on each side, and they seemed to understand the spoken version of the other language, whereas the rest of us was reduced to nodding knowingly...
Maybe experience teaches one to understand spoken swedish/danish - effort certainly seems to be a dead end street.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew i am not totally sure, but isn't swedish more close to norweigian and danish than norweigian is close to danish and swedish?

Well, if distance(swedish->norwegian) < distance(norwegian->swedish) then I guess I'm at a loss when it comes to languages. I was, however, under the impression that norwegian is somewhere between danish and swedish, but closer to swedish than danish.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew hehe, i am impressed looking forward to see you in the swedish section hehe, indeed, swedish is a really hard language, i don't even understand it and yeah, danish is fucking impossible to understand! at least spoken danish... though it seems like people learning swedish have easier to understand danish so there is hope =) i am not totally sure, but isn't swedish more close to norweigian and danish than norweigian is close to danish and swedish?

I believe that its Norwegian that's most closely related to Danish and Swedish from my research on Scandanavian languages, By the way nice to see fuzzy's quote made it on your signature, that is one of the classic quotes on this forum and that's saying a lot, you guys should invite him for a week in Europe to see how censored it is. He will be left like this haha.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I fail to see how low taxes are connected to freedom btw.?

That's hilarious. Freedom is about making choices within your own life, about how you want to spend your time, make your living, and spend your money. When a government takes 50%+ of your income, that government is saying that it "knows better" than you do how to spend your money. You don't work to pay the government - you work to have income for yourself, and when a government decides that it wants an increasingly large share of your income, it's oppressing your own freedoms.

It's funny that a European wouldn't understand this, but perhaps a Briton might, considering that taxation was one of the main reasons that King George's army got their butts kicked out of the American colonies in 1781.

Now, about freedom of speech, it's rather interesting that the only arguments that Europeans can come up with are "well, you guys don't have breasts on TV"...as if porn on broadcast television is some major indicator of freedom of speech.

Instead, we have the the first amendment to the Constitution, which provides the broadest coverage anywhere in the world for the protection of speech, particularly in the realm of political speech. Why is it that neo-Nazi websites for Germans have to be hosted in United States? Because it's banned speech in Germany. Regardless of how you feel about neo-Nazis, we allow people to decide for themselves what they want to hear.

And contrast our concise first Amendment with the European Union's caveats in the ECHR: "The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok That's hilarious. Freedom is about making choices within your own life, about how you want to spend your time, make your living, and spend your money. When a government takes 50%+ of your income, that government is saying that it "knows better" than you do how to spend your money. You don't work to pay the government - you work to have income for yourself, and when a government decides that it wants an increasingly large share of your income, it's oppressing your own freedoms. It's funny that a European wouldn't understand this, but perhaps a Briton might, considering that taxation was one of the main reasons that King George's army got their butts kicked out of the American colonies in 1781.

So what other proposal do you have to solve public problems? Hold a referendum for each road and hospital being built?

And about the languages, admitedly I am not an expert, but I too have a feeling that norwegian is a bit closer to danish than swedish is. When I watch TV1000, I can understand most of the teletext stuff when it's in swedish, a bit less in norwegian and least when it's in danish

Re: For FuzzyGreen and others prefering the "freedom" of the US

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic After reading the following by FuzzyGreen in igottaknows thread, I happened to come by this story: Story Do you really think that you live in a free country?

Allthough she may be a freak for doing those acts, she is her own boss and should be able to do what she wants...I dunno, this is a tricky one......only in america.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok That's hilarious. Freedom is about making choices within your own life, about how you want to spend your time, make your living, and spend your money. When a government takes 50%+ of your income, that government is saying that it "knows better" than you do how to spend your money. You don't work to pay the government - you work to have income for yourself, and when a government decides that it wants an increasingly large share of your income, it's oppressing your own freedoms.

on the other hand you can see it like this, europeans have the freedom to choose (almost) whatever they want when it comes to healthcare, school etc, without the limitation of your private economy.

but sure low taxes means that you are the land of freedom, for some, but not for all.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 And about the languages, admitedly I am not an expert, but I too have a feeling that norwegian is a bit closer to danish than swedish is. When I watch TV1000, I can understand most of the teletext stuff when it's in swedish, a bit less in norwegian and least when it's in danish

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