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SACD: future of DJing?

Is the super audio cd going to eventually replace cd's and vinyl in the DJ world?

sigh, NO

has cd replaced vinyl yet? NO!
So why would sacd?

probably coz SACD's might be able to reproduce sound quality similar to that of vinyl ? not sure tho n too lazy to read up but that could be a reason =)

quote:

Originally posted by rafale probably coz SACD's might be able to reproduce sound quality similar to that of vinyl ? not sure tho n too lazy to read up but that could be a reason =)

oh god don't start that "vinyl vs cd" debate again ...




and in response to the thread SACD's are too rare, too expensive to operate, too proprietary. They will "never" be used for djing.

quote:

Originally posted by rafale probably coz SACD's might be able to reproduce sound quality similar to that of vinyl ?

impossible

Cd/digital media is limited by a sample rate.
Vinyl is a pure unbroken waveform, and as such is not limited by sample rate.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak impossible Cd/digital media is limited by a sample rate. Vinyl is a pure unbroken waveform, and as such is not limited by sample rate.

Yup. Can't ever get that analog "warmth" from a digital source...

quote:

Originally posted by `pr0digy Yup. Can't ever get that analog "warmth" from a digital source...

a tad wrong with electronic music... since all our music is made on computers i will instantly become digital if you want it or not. then when its put onto cd there will be a finite sample rate which can easily be put onto cd. the only thing right now that is preventing cds RIGHT NOW being as good for electronic music is the industry standard 44.1kHz. if they did elecronic singles with higher sample rates then the cd version will me as good as cd.

there is a differance with cd's and record sound but it is a very subtle differance that is not very noticable. to choose one over the other is mearly personal preferance.

I'm more interested in the surround sound aspect of SACDs and DVD-Audios.


Puts a whole new dimension to sound.

in case you haven't noticed, sacd and dvd-audio haven't really attracted the consumer market. And as of date, there's not a single dj cd player that can support the formats. Just let it die like sony's beta.

quote:

Originally posted by dj chex in case you haven't noticed, sacd and dvd-audio haven't really attracted the consumer market. And as of date, there's not a single dj cd player that can support the formats. Just let it die like sony's beta.

The irony is that Beta is one of the strongest Pro formats on the market today

The reason why it didn't work back in the 80s is because the videotapes didn't exist for long time lengths ( max was around 60 minutes I believe )

Today go into any TV studio, Beta is the standard format.

He brings up a valid point that beta is very prevalent in the pro market. Just because the general main stream consumer doens't pick it up doesn't mean that pro audio can't either. I think that surround sound will bring a huge challenge and huge advancement in the industry. Just imagine being able to tweak all 360 degrees of audio. It would be sooo awesome yes its still probably 5 years away but still I could see either SACD or DVD audio taking over.

You are talking about the "Beta SP" and related pro TV video formats which are not the same as the consumer Beta and Betamax tape that is now obsolete. The formats are different although the names are similar. There aren't any consumer Beta VCRs in commercial TV studios but there are Beta decks costing $10,000 - $40,000.

http://www.sonyfastrac.ca/webapp/commerce/servlet/CategoryDisplay?merchant_rn=2&cgrfnbr=16461

quote:

Originally posted by jdat The irony is that Beta is one of the strongest Pro formats on the market today The reason why it didn't work back in the 80s is because the videotapes didn't exist for long time lengths ( max was around 60 minutes I believe ) Today go into any TV studio, Beta is the standard format.

I see a lot of potential in the SACD format. However, it will take years before we see it break into the pro market, let alone the general market (if ever). After all, it took quite some time for CDs to become the standard.

And while a trained ear *may* be able to tell the difference between standard CD audio and vinyl (in ideal conditions), this will be impossible with SACD due to the huge leap in the sample rate.

Oh, and from what I understand, this analog 'warmth' that you speak of tends to be a result of imperfections like dust or a worn record. Don't spew this 'unbroken waveform' BS, the only way you will ever acheive the clarity of CDA on vinyl is in a laboratory. Additionally, as someone else already pointed out, electronic music is made on a computer to begin with, which means your 'unbroken waveform' is a representation of the digital sample.

quote:

Originally posted by tvmann You are talking about the "Beta SP" and related pro TV video formats which are not the same as the consumer Beta and Betamax tape that is now obsolete. The formats are different although the names are similar. There aren't any consumer Beta VCRs in commercial TV studios but there are Beta decks costing $10,000 - $40,000. http://www.sonyfastrac.ca/webapp/co...2&cgrfnbr=16461

It's the "same" thing.... Same tape, different case size; to some extent.

It's kind of like DVCAM and DVCpro kind of crap; they mix the format but really they're the same, it's just a different case and ways for them to justify charging more money.

As I said before it's too proprietary of a technology; even if that doesn't totally apply to the current subject; BUT SACD's burners are not available.

I might be mistaken but so far NO ONE has spoken of the price of the SACD players .... starting price is around 500 USD ( generally more! ) ... this is too audiophile to make it into the regular market

i dunno

when im out, i can always tell if a dj is spinnin cds, its just a feel, not in like a huge rave, but in a smaller club, theres a certain something...



viva vinyl!

A question... WHAT set of PA speakers made to fill a large space would have the extra quality to make 2 channel SACD worthwhile? And what sort of club environment would be able to show off this quality without the room doing mega-bad things to the sound? And where would you get the high quality samples and mastering and such (this is TRANCE, remember!) to make the quality of the SACD worth it?

quote:

Originally posted by Gluegun A question... WHAT set of PA speakers made to fill a large space would have the extra quality to make 2 channel SACD worthwhile? And what sort of club environment would be able to show off this quality without the room doing mega-bad things to the sound? And where would you get the high quality samples and mastering and such (this is TRANCE, remember!) to make the quality of the SACD worth it?

You raise multiple points that none can disagree on.

SACD for djing, while NOT be happening ( at least not any time soon ).

No matter where the "analog warmth" comes from, it's there, and I love it . Either way, vinyl isn't going to die anytime soon, there's so much of an "aura" to it, it just goes with a DJ, and even if something better came about, it'd take a long time to take hold.

gluegun: while you raise great points that are pretty much indisputable, you didn't mention what i would consider to be the best feature of SACDs in a club environment: full surround sound. imagine being able to play with the sound not only on full stereo, but full surround. EDM already uses the stereo effect heavily (much more than other music), wouldn't it be a logical progression to predict the advent of surround sound?

Stereo doesnt always work in clubs because of their layout.

A lot of systems are set up so they are switched to mono in the amp room anyway, so are actually in mono anyway.

Ive run the mixer in mono before (mixer in a lot of venues i work at has got has a mono button on each channel) , say for example when my ortofons have had a wobbler and one contact has cut out,and you would be hard pushed to tell the difference, until of course you panned it left or right.

I can honestly say, im all over the Eqs, and gains and killsm but i think in all the years ive been a pro dj ive touched the pan control about 4 times- its just not neccessary. All my Dj friends are the same.

Also-back to your earlier point- you can have a very high sample rate, but its still 0's and 1's and not a constant waveform. Quote the numbers as much as you like- it will never be technically as good as vinyl- as vinyl has no limitations on sample rate, and as such there are far more transients and subtletys

Christ- Normal Cd technology with regards to Djing is still very poor and unreliable. I think they need to perfect that before trying yet another advancement that just isnt really needed and is just trying to implement technology into the workplace for the sake of it.

{EDIT}- I have shapeshifters-Lolas theme (nocturnal groove) on at +1 in the background, and my Flat Eric <----- is nodding exactly in time to it..... just noticed that and thought id share that useful info with you.

quote:

Originally posted by zoomzoom gluegun: while you raise great points that are pretty much indisputable, you didn't mention what i would consider to be the best feature of SACDs in a club environment: full surround sound. imagine being able to play with the sound not only on full stereo, but full surround. EDM already uses the stereo effect heavily (much more than other music), wouldn't it be a logical progression to predict the advent of surround sound?

A lot of clubs do not run TRUE stereo, meaning they mix the signals & due to the size of the locations and volume it's impossible to get a clear stereo image separation.

SACD or not, running a surround rig in a large venue with high sound levels, you will never get decent results; unless you got an astronomical budget which clearly no one would.
First of all, you have hall acoustics to worry about which I believe is the deciding factor in showing that surround setups cannot be done and on top of that you have all the rest.

Let's wait 20 years and maybe we'll be there

SACDs use higher sampling rates and bit depths than normal CDs.
Nightclubs and various such venues don't benefit very much from higher quality sound sources b/c most venues distort the fuck out of any music just from sheer volume levels alone. CDs and vinyls are as I see it, basically here to stay.... until we evolve and can tell the audible difference between the two in a live venue.

jdat and freak: i didn't know all that. thanks for informing me. i guess SACDs don't have as much potential as i thought.

SACDs have a lot of potential...the truth is the labels havent pushed them yet...but Im hoping the labels will lead more to a new version of wireless broadband with speeds of 10 mbps+ then they can develop a new sound technology and distribute all music digitally....

the sacds or whatever format is used in that time could be available also...for people who want hardcopies but I doubt they would sell more...

sasha seems to use cdjs more than his decks. I haven't heard anyone complain about how his sets sound or the lack of "warmth". Every time i've seen him he's killed the crowd on cdjs.

wouldn't the pioneer dvd player be able to play dvd audio? Agreed it's no cdj-1000mkII, but it has pitch control. You could mix with it.

For the record I own no cdjs, only technics.

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