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Bio: How Kerry wins

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...erry/index.html


This is such a great article, and clearly I was wrong about the Democrats nominating the wrong person.

Truth be told, I don't hate George Bush. I actually think he tries to do what he thinks is right...

It should be a great campaign.

quote:

John Kerry's former media advisor recalls how the Democrat has already faced every smear the Bush campaign will try against him -- and has prevailed.

This part makes me laugh. How he has faced every smear?...

Ok,This is what I find amazing.

The democrats,are the ones who lied and said Bush was AWOL. Which wasn't true, and if you want to fight me on that one. Go ahead and try,because you can't be AWOL and still get medical benefits,and you can't get honorary discharge, To add there were many people who said he was there with them.

Now, they are trying to blame Bush for 9/11. Which I find completely wrong.

Then,I was reading this article saying that a certain group (of liberal people) was trying to blame Bush for people being fat?
(Yep,Read it in the Limbaugh letter.)

Those are some of the things the democratic platform is trying to accuse Bush of. None are true.

What I find amazing is how everyone says that Kerry is this great big war hero.

Yes,He faught in the war, But then he came back and protested against it! That's not being a war hero. Further more, if you're going to bring up all the medals and stuff he won. The longer you stay in the military,The more medals you get.That's just how it is.

Anyway, I can't read the whole article. You can only see the top half.(I don't think it's even half.)

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Yes,He faught in the war, But then he came back and protested against it! That's not being a war hero. Further more, if you're going to bring up all the medals and stuff he won. The longer you stay in the military,The more medals you get.That's just how it is.

if i had fought in vietnam, i would have protested it too.

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly if i had fought in vietnam, i would have protested it too.

I'm not saying he didn't have the right to,But what I'm saying is that by him doing that,That does not make him a war hero.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I'm not saying he didn't have the right to,But what I'm saying is that by him doing that,That does not make him a war hero.

i never understood why war heros should make good politicians. i dont think war is good and we shouldnt promote it.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 What I find amazing is how everyone says that Kerry is this great big war hero. Yes,He faught in the war, But then he came back and protested against it! That's not being a war hero. Further more, if you're going to bring up all the medals and stuff he won. The longer you stay in the military,The more medals you get.That's just how it is. Anyway, I can't read the whole article. You can only see the top half.(I don't think it's even half.)

What the???? How does that make him any less of a war hero? You are a war hero according to your acts on the battlefield. The fact that he protested the war after he was discharched doesn't diminish his meritous acts. The mere suggestion that a person's "hero" status is dependant upon having political beliefs that mirror the government is ludicrous at best. That's like saying that a wehrmacht soldier who saved the lives of his men is any less of a war hero because he protested his country's aggression against others .

As for your statement insinuating that Kerry got his medals simply because of a "longer stay" in the military, I suggest you read some literature on what he did to earn those medals:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

Furthermore I'm certain that plenty of receipients of the congressional medal of honor would take offense to the lack of recognition and respect of their accomplishments.

And so how many years did you serve in the military?

My father served just under 23. He knows better about the military,Than you.

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Originally posted by butterfly i never understood why war heros should make good politicians. i dont think war is good and we shouldnt promote it.

Well,War isn't fun. But, sometimes it's nessecary. Without it, America would have never been America.
(Revolutionary War.)

Ok so what are his medals then? Quantity and type please.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Ok so what are his medals then? Quantity and type please.

Eh, Nessa edited her post. I was going to comment on how she posted numerous points and *almost* quoted sources. Apparently that wasnt enough, and I didnt want to beat a dead horse.

Since, its another 2 line Nellie post, and makes almost no sense. From what I understand you have to go to war, and answer to her father - again, from what I understand|

quote:

Originally posted by biznology Eh, Nessa edited her post. I was going to comment on how she posted numerous points and *almost* quoted sources. Apparently that wasnt enough, and I didnt want to beat a dead horse. Since, its another 2 line Nellie post, and makes almost no sense. From what I understand you have to go to war, and answer to her father - again, from what I understand|

Well it's quite simple really ... according to her argument, if her father has 23+ years of military service, then I'm expecting him to have quite a number of medals that surpasses Kerry's acheivements in 4 years ... perhaps a distinguished service cross or a silver star, at the very least a crapload of bronze stars. If her father doesn't have all these medals then her argument is crap. Of course if he DOES have all these medals, then they're nothing to be proud of since he simply accumulated through spending so much time in the service doing nothing ... according to her argument of course. I'm satisfied with either scenario actually

I'll be sure and check with Nellie's father before I post again.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Anyway, I can't read the whole article. You can only see the top half.(I don't think it's even half.)

There's a link at the bottom for pages 2,3,etc.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Well it's quite simple really ... according to her argument, if her father has 23+ years of military service, then I'm expecting him to have quite a number of medals that surpasses Kerry's acheivements in 4 years ... perhaps a distinguished service cross or a silver star, at the very least a crapload of bronze stars. If her father doesn't have all these medals then her argument is crap. Of course if he DOES have all these medals, then they're nothing to be proud of since he simply accumulated through spending so much time in the service doing nothing ... according to her argument of course. I'm satisfied with either scenario actually

LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 This part makes me laugh. How he has faced every smear?...

Your tendency to only read the first part of articles certainly knows no bounds. The rest of the article explains what the author is referring to with your quote.

quote:

Ok,This is what I find amazing. The democrats,are the ones who lied and said Bush was AWOL. Which wasn't true, and if you want to fight me on that one. Go ahead and try,because you can't be AWOL and still get medical benefits,and you can't get honorary discharge, To add there were many people who said he was there with them.

And there were many people who claim to have never seen the guy whatsoever at places where he claims to have been. I'd go into further detail, but I outlined my point on this issue here:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...light=bush+awol

But I do have to say that in the overall scheme of things, I must eventually agree with Occ and say that this really is a non-issue. There are much more important things on the table than past history.

quote:

Now, they are trying to blame Bush for 9/11. Which I find completely wrong.

As it appears so far, Bush and the rest of his Administration should certainly share part of the blame, though the blame really can be spread around to a number of different agencies and Administration officials on both sides of the aisle.

quote:

Then,I was reading this article saying that a certain group (of liberal people) was trying to blame Bush for people being fat? (Yep,Read it in the Limbaugh letter.)

We're going to need a little more than that to go on. Is there a weblink, or at the very least, can you summarize? These seems pretty outlandish to me. But then again, Mr. Hillbilly Heroin Limbaugh has a propensity for bashing on the extremists and then painting all Dems. with the very same extremist paintbrush.

Strange, most logically thinking individuals tend to think the very same about Limbaugh. I wonder why?

quote:

Those are some of the things the democratic platform is trying to accuse Bush of. None are true.

Well, maybe perhaps just a few things are true. As usual, the waters tend to get a little muddy come election time.

quote:

What I find amazing is how everyone says that Kerry is this great big war hero. Yes,He faught in the war, But then he came back and protested against it! That's not being a war hero. Further more, if you're going to bring up all the medals and stuff he won. The longer you stay in the military,The more medals you get.That's just how it is.

I think Occ covered your lack of logic quite well. I'm not sure how even you could come to such irrational conclusions, but you always seem to pull through in the past so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. You do realize that medals are based on merits, not time spent, right? Surely your father could have told you that?

quote:

Anyway, I can't read the whole article. You can only see the top half.(I don't think it's even half.)

You can't read it, or you won't? For some reason, I just have to question your sincerity when it comes to reading material presented to you.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Your tendency to only read the first part of articles certainly knows no bounds. The rest of the article explains what the author is referring to with your quote.

I read all that was on that page, I didn't have a sign in name or anything like that,So I couldn't get the rest of the article.

quote:

And there were many people who claim to have never seen the guy whatsoever at places where he claims to have been. I'd go into further detail, but I outlined my point on this issue here: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...light=bush+awol

Bush wasn't AWOL, I'm not going any further with this. I've already laid it out for you.

quote:

As it appears so far, Bush and the rest of his Administration should certainly share part of the blame, though the blame really can be spread around to a number of different agencies and Administration officials on both sides of the aisle.

Try again, If you want I can post you a article that my dad emailed me today. It's totally worth reading.

quote:

We're going to need a little more than that to go on. Is there a weblink, or at the very least, can you summarize? These seems pretty outlandish to me. But then again, Mr. Hillbilly Heroin Limbaugh has a propensity for bashing on the extremists and then painting all Dems. with the very same extremist paintbrush.

Like I said,It was in the Limbaugh letter. ( Or did I say that? )
Anyway, I don't have the weblink. I just read it in the Limbaugh letter.
It wasn't saying it was all liberals though, it was just a group of liberals.(A certain specific group.)

quote:

Well, maybe perhaps just a few things are true. As usual, the waters tend to get a little muddy come election time.

Of course, that's just how it goes unfortunatly.

quote:

I think Occ covered your lack of logic quite well. I'm not sure how even you could come to such irrational conclusions, but you always seem to pull through in the past so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. You do realize that medals are based on merits, not time spent, right? Surely your father could have told you that?

Let me put this out flat, My dad has earned many medals. He worked very very hard in the military,for them.

Just a question,did you hear that Kerry is being questioned about his " purple heart " ?

If that was all a lie, then seriously. He's lost all my respect ( not that he had any from me anyway. ) Cause my great uncle Charles has two purple hearts from serving in WWII. That's nothing something to lie about. :/

quote:

You can't read it, or you won't? For some reason, I just have to question your sincerity when it comes to reading material presented to you.

I read what was there. Believe it, or don't. But, I did.

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly i never understood why war heros should make good politicians. i dont think war is good and we shouldnt promote it.

Rofl. Do you honestly believe that there is someone who thinks war is GOOD? Use your brain, of course not! Unfortunately we do not live in a utopia and there will always be conflicts among groups for various reasons, which will lead to wars. It's the way people work, always have been wars, always will be wars.

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly i never understood why war heros should make good politicians. i dont think war is good and we shouldnt promote it.

Its interesting. WWII is referred to as the "good" war and it has forever immortalized combat and heroism into the American psyche (Havent heard other countries opinions on it). Wars are brutal and senseless scrabblings for position and power most of the time, but I think that World War II was good in the fact that it showed that sometimes people will lay down their lives for peace, goodness, and hope. I dont think there will ever be another war like it really.

So it was Good in the fact that it was undeniably the right thing to do. It was good in showing that even good men, school teachers and husbands, could be put into the kill or be killed mode to save a stranger under injustice.

Bad in the fact that now War is seen as something "cool" and the Vietnam, korean, and gulf wars did nothing to staunch that crimson outflowing of Patriotism and willingness to fight.

I do have to disagree with heroes not being put on a pedestal. They were truer to themselves and to their countries than most people can only dream of. A hero to me is one who has taken a good trait, such as bravery, and elevated it to nearly inhuman levels. Basically someone who has reached perfection in a certain category. Its like the Nobel Prize, but in times of war and for achievements of the human condition, not for peace and the advance of science

my 2c

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax Its interesting. WWII is referred to as the "good" war and it has forever immortalized combat and heroism into the American psyche (Havent heard other countries opinions on it). Wars are brutal and senseless scrabblings for position and power most of the time, but I think that World War II was good in the fact that it showed that sometimes people will lay down their lives for peace, goodness, and hope. I dont think there will ever be another war like it really. So it was Good in the fact that it was undeniably the right thing to do. It was good in showing that even good men, school teachers and husbands, could be put into the kill or be killed mode to save a stranger under injustice. Bad in the fact that now War is seen as something "cool" and the Vietnam, korean, and gulf wars did nothing to staunch that crimson outflowing of Patriotism and willingness to fight. I do have to disagree with heroes not being put on a pedestal. They were truer to themselves and to their countries than most people can only dream of. A hero to me is one who has taken a good trait, such as bravery, and elevated it to nearly inhuman levels. Basically someone who has reached perfection in a certain category. Its like the Nobel Prize, but in times of war and for achievements of the human condition, not for peace and the advance of science my 2c

"band of brothers" anyone?
(actually i heard it might be on the history channel soon)

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy "band of brothers" anyone? (actually i heard it might be on the history channel soon)

It's on the history channel right now. I think it started Monday.

George Bush has dropped about $50 million in negative ads on Kerry thus far, and this is what he has to show for it:


(Still a tie)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

http://english.people.com.cn/200404...12_140106.shtml

Rasmussen polling tends to be right-leaning, and Newsweek is probably more left-leaning.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono It's on the history channel right now. I think it started Monday.

wouldnt know, im a poor (for now) college student with no tv

but damn cool series - saw it on DVD when it came out

Yeah I bought BoB. Was sweet. Cant believe it really happened! The whole Eagles Nest thing was so beautiful. And that lake!! Unh!

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 Let me put this out flat, My dad has earned many medals. He worked very very hard in the military,for them.

Well no he must not have worked very hard, because after all, "the longer you stay in the military, the more medals you get. That's just how it is." So he didn't do anything to get the medals ... just like Kerry. Out of curiosity what's the highest medal that he got for doing nothing and simply staying in teh military for a long time?

quote:

Just a question,did you hear that Kerry is being questioned about his " purple heart " ? If that was all a lie, then seriously. He's lost all my respect ( not that he had any from me anyway. ) Cause my great uncle Charles has two purple hearts from serving in WWII. That's nothing something to lie about. :/

Really do you read anything anyone else posts? I posted a source that examines the EXACT circumstances of EVERY award Kerry received. You're a big girl, I'm sure you can go back and find it. Nice to see that your Uncle got some medals too by simply staying in the military for a long time.

I've seen Band of Brothers before on HBO, and it really gives me some perspective about what my grandfathers went through.




LOL @ Occ. My grandfather didn't really do anything to get his medals either (just saved about a half dozen dude's lives).

They hand em out like candy when you've stayed in long enough.

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I read all that was on that page, I didn't have a sign in name or anything like that,So I couldn't get the rest of the article.

You can sign in for free, provided that you watch a short infomercial thingy. And that gives you a free one-day pass. Didn't you see that part? That's how you are able to see the rest of the article.

If this is not satisfactory for you, I'm willing to post the entire article here if needed.

quote:

Bush wasn't AWOL, I'm not going any further with this. I've already laid it out for you.

Why aren't you going any further? Once again, your rebuttals come down to, "because I say so". This is becoming quite tedious. You really need better debating skills than this. You laid it out for me, and I demonstrated with a weblink to a prior thread where I find discrepencies in Bush's story. You wish to make a comment on those discrepencies? If not, I suggest you cease from bringing up a topic which you do not wish to discuss further.

quote:

Try again, If you want I can post you a article that my dad emailed me today. It's totally worth reading.

And I can post practically every newspaper headline, likely even some conservative media, which shows the Bush Admin. likely has a share in the blame. You've got to be seriously delusional to think Bush had absolutely no fault whatsoever. I believe even the biggest Bush supporters here would agree to that in part. Here's just a few headlines:

"Panel Says Bush Saw Repeated Warnings
Reports Preceded August 2001 Memo"
By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 14, 2004; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Apr13.html

Here's the Phoenix Memo, warning of "cadre of Osama bin Laden disciples might be training at U.S. flight schools in preparation for future 'terror activity against civil aviation targets.':
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archiv...42phoenix1.html

"Probing the Memo
A declassified President's Daily Brief sparks questions about 9/11"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...-610045,00.html

"Press Didn't Buy White House Spin on 9/11 Document"
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/e...t_id=1000485027

"Ashcroft Cut off Al-Qaeda Briefings, Ex-FBI Official Testifies"
(of course Ashcroft flat-out denied this in his testimony):
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/new...=top_world_news

But as I said previously, the blame can be shared amongst a wide range of individuals and administrations, both democrat and republican, as well as intelligence agencies. Of course, conclusions should not be fully drawn until the final commission report comes out in July, but as it's evidenced presently, blame can be shared amongst many, including the Bush Admin. being a little bit negligent. I'm not much of a bettin' man, but I'm willin' to put a little friendly wager that the final commission report will have at least some blame on the Bush Admin. Care to bet?

And I would be interested in seeing that email, so could you post it, please?

quote:

Like I said,It was in the Limbaugh letter. ( Or did I say that? ) Anyway, I don't have the weblink. I just read it in the Limbaugh letter. It wasn't saying it was all liberals though, it was just a group of liberals.(A certain specific group.)

Mmkay. As long as we're talking about a certain extremist group of liberals, do you think it would be appropriate for me to share a story about fascist extremist conservatives, then? Would it really have to do with anything? IOW, what is the relevance of you bringing up the story in the first place?

quote:

Of course, that's just how it goes unfortunatly.

No doubt.

quote:

Let me put this out flat, My dad has earned many medals. He worked very very hard in the military,for them. Just a question,did you hear that Kerry is being questioned about his " purple heart " ? If that was all a lie, then seriously. He's lost all my respect ( not that he had any from me anyway. ) Cause my great uncle Charles has two purple hearts from serving in WWII. That's nothing something to lie about. :/

As Occ pointed out, do you have a problem with reading other material posted specifically for you? Occ posted an article that explicitly addresses those accusations. Please do us a favor and read it.

And again, you did not answer my question about awarding medals - are they not based on deeds, rather than years of experience? Funny, that's how my grandfather earned his purple heart and silver star in WWII, and he was only in the service for active duty for 3 years. The length of time spent in the military is irrelevant to how many medals you earn. I repeat, surely your father has told you this. Please ask him, if you will, and let us know what his answer is to you.

quote:

I read what was there. Believe it, or don't. But, I did.

How can you read it when you previously admitted not reading the other pages? You're being quite illogical, once again.

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