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-- Groove box, drum machine, MPC - please explain...

Groove box, drum machine, MPC - please explain...

Ok, for someone who has been mucking around with synths for some time, I am still a bit confused about the whole drum sound, since just about every single one of my production is without beat (right now). I am ready to take the next step and introduce some rythm into my productions but need some advise.

What is the difference between drum machine, groove box, MPC - etc? I am sooo confused. What makes TR303 so special? What's so good about MC909? Why should I consider MPC1000/2000/whatever? Which of the Korgs Electribe boxes is better?

I hear people create drums patterns using nothing more than synth - how is that done? What about software based stuff like RedRum or Rebirth? I am soooooooo confused........... please demistify this nonsense!

Re: Groove box, drum machine, MPC - please explain...

quote:

Originally posted by CynepMeH I hear people create drums patterns using nothing more than synth - how is that done? What about software based stuff like RedRum or Rebirth? I am soooooooo confused........... please demistify this nonsense!

Haha that's great, been watching scary movies?

Anyways, a drum machine, as I understand it, either plays back sampled drums or synthesized drums, depending on the model. For example, I believe the 808 and 909 used synthesized drums, whereas other drum machines will let you import drum samples.

Each drum has a dedicated channel in the machine. Your basic setup will have buttons below the channels to program the drums...that is, you tell the machine when to trigger them. It's really better explained through pictures, so I'll use Redrum as an example - the interface is easy to understand and has lots of crossover with other drum machines.

A basic clap sequence:


A basic kick sequence:


A basic shaker sequence:


You'll notice I circled the drum channel selector - that's to clarify why the step sequencer looks different every time. This particular machine will only take in premade samples, although it's capable of tweaking them...basic things like pitch control, amplitude control, tone color, length, panning, effect sends, etc...

I suggest you get a hold of a free software drum machine to learn the basics, although I don't know of any organizations that give away free drum machines...maybe NI has a demo for Battery.

Just writing off the top of my head - if any of the facts are wrong, feel free to correct me!

A drum machine is exactly what the name implies: a machine, usually sample-based, that plays pretty much only drums. There's usually a simple step sequencer for creating pattern-based grooves as well. I believe Roland was the first to include the sequencer ability. Some drum machines were synthesis-based, like the TR-808 and more recently the Elektron Machinedrum. The 909 used synthesis on certain sounds (kick, snare), and 8 or 6 bit samples on others (cymbals).

A groovebox is pretty much just a name Roland made up for a line of gear meant to capitalize on the popularity of it's vintage drum machines and the legendary TB-303 bassline synth. The MC-303 groovebox was supposed to be the all-in-one machine that would do drums, bass, and most of all emulate a TB-303 bassline synth. It was a miserable failure because while the drums were OK, it didn't really sound much like a 303, and everything that came out of it sounded pretty generic. People were selling these things within months of them being released to the public. The MC-505 Groovebox was a little more successful, I believe mostly because it has some excellent drum sounds.

As for the MPC, they're sampler workstations. That is to say, they're samplers, but they also include pretty comprehensive sequencers as well. They're quite popular in the hip-hop community, and a lot of electronic musicians apparently use them for live sets because of the flexible sequencers. I've never used them or the Korg Electribe (which I think is along the same lines, but I could be wrong), as I prefer software sequencers like Cubase (they're more visual). Maybe someone else could enlighten you about that?

The korg er is one of the only sequencers I know having realtime sequencing.. you have the grid recording for every sound you select. This is really wicked for live performance. The first 4 parts of the sound module are synth based so you can change some parameters like pitch, modulation, ..., the others are sample based (hats, claps, cymbals). It's really capable of making powerfull drums and efx.

I like the mc 505 also, it's my first synth. It's a sample-rom based synth meaning you are limited to the sounds on the memory chip but their are some very good samples out there (especially drums but also pads, basses and some "real" instruments are even acceptable) as their engine is based on the jv 1080, one of the most popular sample-synths in the studio's. It's a workstation so I would not consider this just for the drums.

Making drums using synths is one thing I would not consider when you are new to drums. It took me some days to make a kick out of an initialise patch so I'd stick to samples in the beginning.

The mpc is a fine sequencer/workstation very usefull for live performance (used by underworld) but it has no onboard sounds.

The tr 909 is the original roland drumbox used for most of today's dance songs kicks, hats, claps, cymbals, toms, ... (techno, house, trance) It's sounds are produced thru an analog circuit so you have control over some parameters you don't have on samples but they are much overpriced these days.
Tr 808 is well known for the d&b kick (pretty much a one shot low pitched sine wave with a long decay) and the woodblocks.

The tr 303 is a bass-synth which originally was not popular but is now used in about every acid song (or at least 303-emulators) so this is not used for drums.

Hope this makes things a bit more clear for you

quote:

Originally posted by DeZmA The tr 303

TB-303
TR was the designation for Roland's rythm boxes. There was also the TR-606 and TR-727 and possibly others.

Doesn't take much to impress me...

while waiting anxiously for replies, I tried (drum roll please (pun intended)) running sequencer pattern from my AN1X to SNII and what I got was wickked drum pattern. Considering some of the sequences on AN1X have a different pattern assigned to each of the keys, I had a trove of drum grooves. Combining that with JP8080 303 patches I got some killer baseline, throwing Access Virus KC high hats and toms into the mix I had the makings of crazy stuff! This wasn't so hard after all! Now, I am curious... What if Synth A sends arpegio out to synth B, and synth B is playing an arpegio as well, is there any way to take that "combination of arpegios" into one combined pattern?

This was sooo much fun! I'm ready for more!

I think I'll pass on real drums for now. I got some VSTi drum machines I haven't even touched yet - ReBirth, Reason 2.0 (redrum) and some other free drum machines that came with FM mag.

Thanks for all replies! Still, is it worth the money to buy a hardware based drum machine or is it totally redundant with the power and versatility of soft-based drums nowdays?

lata...

quote:

Originally posted by CynepMeH is it worth the money to buy a hardware based drum machine or is it totally redundant with the power and versatility of soft-based drums nowdays?

Get yourself the LinPlug RM-III or RM-IV and a bunch of well-sourced samples, and a little bit of knowledge about how to program drums. Unless you're a purist, that's all you'll need.

quote:

Originally posted by xls TB-303 TR was the designation for Roland's rythm boxes. There was also the TR-606 and TR-727 and possibly others.

omg that's what I meant of course
yea I just described the most usefull ones for dance.

Re: Doesn't take much to impress me...

quote:

Originally posted by CynepMeH while waiting anxiously for replies, I tried (drum roll please (pun intended)) running sequencer pattern from my AN1X to SNII and what I got was wickked drum pattern. Considering some of the sequences on AN1X have a different pattern assigned to each of the keys, I had a trove of drum grooves. Combining that with JP8080 303 patches I got some killer baseline, throwing Access Virus KC high hats and toms into the mix I had the makings of crazy stuff! This wasn't so hard after all! Now, I am curious... What if Synth A sends arpegio out to synth B, and synth B is playing an arpegio as well, is there any way to take that "combination of arpegios" into one combined pattern? This was sooo much fun! I'm ready for more! I think I'll pass on real drums for now. I got some VSTi drum machines I haven't even touched yet - ReBirth, Reason 2.0 (redrum) and some other free drum machines that came with FM mag. Thanks for all replies! Still, is it worth the money to buy a hardware based drum machine or is it totally redundant with the power and versatility of soft-based drums nowdays? lata...

I think you should be able to record your sequence pattern
just set the right ptn tx ch somewhere in the middle of the matrix and you should be set.

btw try an1x edit for the an1x it's just great.

Meh, money obviously isn't that much of an obstacle to you, so you should do what I did. Buy the Elektron SPS-1 machine drum.

I wanted to be able to create my own great sounding drums and don't want to have to scour the internet or sample CDs looking for the perfect kick or hi hat. Make you own sounds and loops at the best possible quality.

www.machinedrum.com

and a review

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jan...7bb05f1429dc039

The best drum machine on the market. Only for those who like to synthesize their sounds. Lazy buggers should stick to samplers (although searching CDs/WWW takes a fair bit of effort).

I actually have the MPC 1000 .......the sequencer is tight & the sound that comes out is really fat! NO, there isnt any onboard sounds so basically whatever u put in is exactly what your gonna get out of it. It is in fact very handy for live performances since u can mute tracks & switch sequences by the press of a pad. Great for drums and phrase samples. Just in case any1 in interested

Peace

-Shook

quote:

Originally posted by CandyRaver666 Meh, money obviously isn't that much of an obstacle to you, so you should do what I did. Buy the Elektron SPS-1 machine drum.

Hehe..... all the money that I manage to scrape are spent on synths. Meanwhile, my gurl is saving up for a nice shotgun so she can shoot me the moment I bring the next synth into the house. You know that look "Another one???"

Managed to convince her that the most ideal b-day present I can get is Elektron Machinedrum . It's arriving on Monday. 'nuff said I hope it's worth all the money and the hype that surrounds it.

Drums are weird. They are like synths, you can never ever ever have enough for some reason. I have tons of hh's, snares, kick drums, and I still always want more. Samples are good because they are the exact same sample in a keyboard or a drum machine. I do have a jomox x-base that has analog kick, snare and digital hh. That is slightly different because it sounds totally analog, different then all sames for real.

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