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help me defend EDM vs classical

Hi, I really need your help with an argument i was having with a friend (who btw is NOT an EDM fan).

I was arguing that EDM is the new form of classical music and that EDM is a direct descendant from classical.

I also said (maybe that was a mistake) that classical is dead, not evolving anymore and that with EDM the possibilities are limitless.

She says that's absolutely not true.

How can I win her over?
Any help from classical musicians would be appreciated in clarifying this...

THANKS!

EDm is not the new form of classical music. EDM is EDM, classical is classical. There are tracks that incorporate both elements, but classical is not dead

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How can I win her over?

is theres something more to this than music here?

Re: help me defend EDM vs classical

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Originally posted by high elmo I was arguing that EDM is the new form of classical music and that EDM is a direct descendant from classical. I also said (maybe that was a mistake) that classical is dead, not evolving anymore and that with EDM the possibilities are limitless. She says that's absolutely not true.THANKS!

well first off, aside from the part that i disagree with you, id EDM is a direct descendant of classical as you say, then i'd say classical still is evolving

and aside from that, classical isn't dead, its just not a music of the masses anymore
debussy rules

EDM is modern music, classical is classical. It would be ridiculous to even try to draw a comparison between the two as they've so far removed from one another.

Re: help me defend EDM vs classical

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Originally posted by high elmo I also said (maybe that was a mistake) that classical is dead, not evolving anymore and that with EDM the possibilities are limitless.

...thats where YOU lose your argument.

I'd play tracks that have classical sounds like Gouryella - Ligaya(Ferry Corsten Mix)... or Barber's Adagio for Strings, etc. But you will lose arguments if you use words like "always" "every" "limitless"... that's simply not true... Some EDM incorporates classical and classical style tracks are still produced today for movie soundtracks mostly.

Forgot to mention that one thing Classical shares with EDM is the rarity of vocals, I guess vocal EDM is synonymous with opera in the allegory.

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Originally posted by DjCoz Forgot to mention that one thing Classical shares with EDM is the rarity of vocals, I guess vocal EDM is synonymous with opera in the allegory.

That's not true, you hardly ever hear vocal-less hip hop tracks.

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Originally posted by Tranc3 That's not true, you hardly ever hear vocal-less hip hop tracks.

DJ Shadow, DJ Krush, RJD2, Prefuse 73... You'd be suprised.

Play Hybrid - Finished Symphony and/or stfu.

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Originally posted by TwoPlow DJ Shadow, DJ Krush, RJD2, Prefuse 73... You'd be suprised. Play Hybrid - Finished Symphony and/or stfu.

I was talking about the commerial hip-hop, not Shadow/Lavelle/Dan the Automator kind of stuff

Re: help me defend EDM vs classical

quote:

Originally posted by high elmo Hi, I really need your help with an argument i was having with a friend (who btw is NOT an EDM fan). I was arguing that EDM is the new form of classical music and that EDM is a direct descendant from classical. I also said (maybe that was a mistake) that classical is dead, not evolving anymore and that with EDM the possibilities are limitless. She says that's absolutely not true. How can I win her over? Any help from classical musicians would be appreciated in clarifying this... THANKS!

Electronic Dance Music evolved from the minimalist experiences that took place in 1950's. Also, the idea of producing music with electronic music was born from classical composers since the beggining of the last century (the Dadaist movement was incredibly important) and it was indeed taken as the next step to ordinary music.

Afterwards, the music started to become more complex as the gear used was more advanced and...

*snare roll*

... there you have modern electronic (dance) music. That's why you have people like Jean-Michel Jarre (who was important to the history of electronic dance music), Kraftwerk (yet another important person) and so on. It's a very long explanation, which you can find if you search "history of edm" here on the forums. Therefore,

you get the biscuit

EDM can't be connected to classical music really.. however _melodic_ trance can, that's two different things you know :Q

Both genres (mel. trance and classical music) are based around the keyword 'melody'. Furthermore, in classical music the composer writes his composition and gives it to the orchestra to play. In electronic music it's the same but instead of an orchestra one have computers and synthesizers.
Also, a large amount of trance producers are classicaly trained (I'm one of them). I play the violin and preferably classical music (in minor ) with harmonious and beautiful progressions. The thing is that I often stumble on these kinds of harmonies in melodic trance music too. So there you have the resemblance.

to say that classical music is dead was indeed a mistake.. shame on you :E And to say that EDM (or trance) is the new form of classical music is also totally wrong.. they have similarities (like I pointed out) but to compare them THAT far is just ridicilous.

Just to add to what Lira said, read up this thread:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...light=classical


It's all about evolution. Besides, "classical" music (Western art music) of the 20th century was hardly melodic or tonal in the way that most of you think of "classical".

I think one problem is what people are calling "classical" music. Classical is a lot like the word "techno" it can refer to music played by "traditional" instruments by artists who play works written by composers or else by the specific time period (or "genre" if you will) from mid 1700s to early 1800s with composers like Mozart and Beethoven. The same sort of way people refer to all EDM as "Techno" but it is also a specific style.

The argument that the "Classical" period is over would be moot. To say that classical music in general, aka Orchestra music, is not evolving is totally false. Minimalism is a the popular genre for the past couple decades (composers like Reich, Glass, Gorecki, Part).

I disagree with your conclusion but one point you might want to make to help your side is how modern classical music uses "tapes" and effects. For example Steve Reich's piece "Different Trains" is for orchestra and uses taped recordings of voices that play at key parts and are very directly related to the music. Alan Hovhaness usess whale songs that are taped and played back at certain points of his work "And God Created Great Whales".

In the end EDM is not replaceing anything, well maybe Disco , it is simply a new kind of music.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance Besides, "classical" music (Western art music) of the 20th century was hardly melodic or tonal in the way that most of you think of "classical".

Exactly, when people complain how classical music all sounds the same and it boring, they are usually thinking of old peices everyone has heard. While modern classical music may still be boring, I find it hard to believe that most people find much similarites between a modern 12 tone piece and a Hayden symphony.

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Originally posted by auujay Exactly, when people complain how classical music all sounds the same and it boring, they are usually thinking of old peices everyone has heard. While modern classical music may still be boring, I find it hard to believe that most people find much similarites between a modern 12 tone piece and a Hayden symphony.

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Originally posted by auujay I think one problem is what people are calling "classical" music. Classical is a lot like the word "techno" it can refer to music played by "traditional" instruments by artists who play works written by composers or else by the specific time period (or "genre" if you will) from mid 1700s to early 1800s with composers like Mozart and Beethoven. The same sort of way people refer to all EDM as "Techno" but it is also a specific style. The argument that the "Classical" period is over would be moot. To say that classical music in general, aka Orchestra music, is not evolving is totally false. Minimalism is a the popular genre for the past couple decades (composers like Reich, Glass, Gorecki, Part). I disagree with your conclusion but one point you might want to make to help your side is how modern classical music uses "tapes" and effects. For example Steve Reich's piece "Different Trains" is for orchestra and uses taped recordings of voices that play at key parts and are very directly related to the music. Alan Hovhaness usess whale songs that are taped and played back at certain points of his work "And God Created Great Whales". In the end EDM is not replaceing anything, well maybe Disco , it is simply a new kind of music.

Nice to see that everyone's repeating what I've been saying for years on TA.

Unfortunately, most people here don't have a clue about minimalism, musique concrete, or the 12-tone system and they think classical is just anything that has a few violins and sounds old-fashioned. The word "classical" is exactly what "techno" is for the uneducated masses.

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Originally posted by YaleTrance Nice to see that everyone's repeating what I've been saying for years on TA. Unfortunately, most people here don't have a clue about minimalism, musique concrete, or the 12-tone system and they think classical is just anything that has a few violins and sounds old-fashioned. The word "classical" is exactly what "techno" is for the uneducated masses.

I was going to say this same thing on the nearly identical thread that was made a day or two ago but decided I didn't want to waste my time. Seeing it a second time just put me over the edge

Re: Re: help me defend EDM vs classical

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Originally posted by Lira ... Kraftwerk (yet another important person)...

Kraftwerk is a duo.

Re: Re: Re: help me defend EDM vs classical

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Originally posted by NinetyNinety Kraftwerk is a duo.

My bad... I shall never post and talk on the phone at the same time again

ok so how can you best define EDM?
where does it come from?
what genre is it closest to?

ie: rock comes from blues but doesn't sound like blues.

why does edm have to come from something?

Its like saying computers came from something else.

well, usually music is influenced by other genres of music.
artists who start a genre, learnt about music or even played another genre, and then converted or made a new one.

sooo mabe edm is a new one... since it is 100% electronic

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Originally posted by sandstorm03 sooo mabe edm is a new one... since it is 100% electronic

but electronic music was pioneered in the "classical world" over 80 years ago and many of the edm pioneers like Brian Eno and Kraftwerk were all clasically trained. not to mention that all of those synths were first tried and tested in that classical world decades before electronic became dance music.

ok so there is a connection between classical and edm.
of course, they dont sound the same.
but it's an evolution, with new tools and equipment, the music sounds different.
but, the same thinking goes into making both.

opinions?

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Originally posted by high elmo ok so there is a connection between classical and edm. of course, they dont sound the same. but it's an evolution, with new tools and equipment, the music sounds different. but, the same thinking goes into making both. opinions?

but not all "classical" sounds the same, and not all of edm sounds the same either. some of the edm stuff today is crap, but so is a lot of "classical" too that never gets played.

a lot of the contemporary "classical" since the 1960s to this day gets made with pretty much the same tools and equipment as edm. electronic music started off as "classical". i would say the connection is primarily with classical dance music. read that other thread i posted for more info.

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