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Levels In Mastering

Is it a good idea to not really worry about clipping caused by the individual outputs and to just reduse the primary output enough so there is no clipping?

EX:

In Kick1-Output and Bass1-Output - both are clipping if - but if I reduse Pimary Output enough then the final mix isn't clipping (and it doesn't look crushed). Is it a good idea to do this or should the primary output be kept at 0 and clipping should be tended to by the individual instrument's outputs.

I've been thinking alot about this matter but haven't really come to any conclusion about it...

therefore I go by the rule no clipping at all

the best thing must be to have no clipping at all so try to do that instead of accepting some clipping here and there

quote:

Originally posted by Vizay the best thing must be to have no clipping at all so try to do that instead of accepting some clipping here and there

that's not exactly what I'm getting at.

When I reduce the primary output and render the mix there is 0 clipping. But if I turn the primary output up to 0 then there is clipping. So this means that some of the instruments are clipping.

I'm not sure if that clippping goes away when I turn the primary output down.

well if there aint any clipping in the end then there's no clipping

just remember that it's still not a good thing to have clipping, doesn't matter where it is...it's not good

I find I have more control over the mix if I turn the main output down about 2dB, and then take care of clipping with the individual channels.

I suppose if you are already satisfied with the relative volumes of the individual tracks, I don't see why lowering the master volume would cause any trouble (and it should get rid of the clipping just fine).

quote:

Originally posted by MaxC I suppose if you are already satisfied with the relative volumes of the individual tracks, I don't see why lowering the master volume would cause any trouble (and it should get rid of the clipping just fine).

werd!

It is easier just to reduce the main output by a few db to avoid clipping, but I try to set the levels correctly for each channel and leave the main output at 0db.

Check out this freebie called 'Inspector' that analyzes your master output and checks headroom in your mix.

http://www.elementalaudio.com/downloads/index.html

i will say this though when you master a final track always leave the levels between 3db to 6db because a lot of people like myself like to tweak the shit out of tracks while we're mixing. If you put the levels up near or 0db it's going to distort like a bitch on a good loud system. At least from my personal experiences this is what I encountered.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo that's not exactly what I'm getting at. When I reduce the primary output and render the mix there is 0 clipping. But if I turn the primary output up to 0 then there is clipping. So this means that some of the instruments are clipping. I'm not sure if that clippping goes away when I turn the primary output down.

Depends on what you use to mix.
On hardware mixers, especially analog ones, clipping should be avoided both on the individual channels as on the output. If for example there is an overload in a channel, turning down the output won't solve anything. The level will drop, but the distortion remains (as the overload is BEFORE the output).
In the digital world, this depends on how the software is programmed. If it's programmed right (as most major audio progs are anyway) the internal resolution is higher than the actual resolution the hardware can handle.

Let's just take Cubase as an example. If I remember right, everything is calculated at 32 bit floating point internally. In theory, it's practically impossible to clip with such a resolution (32 bit floating point means 24 "real" bits mantisse, and 8 bits are used as an exponent (in other words, those bits control the "range" you work in). So like I said, clipping is unlikely to happen in such instances, as long as you stay internal.

The problem is, you don't stay internal As soon as you need to pass through hardware (let's say, erm, your soundcard outputs) you don't have that extra resolution anymore. Signals are basically electricity, and there's only so much hardware can take. That's also why clip indicators in your software work (if you think about it, it's said it's virtually impossible to clip, then why do they even put clip indicators, and why do they light up? It's just interpolated to the end bitdepth you defined in your project setup).

Even then, it's not necessarily because your output buss is clipping that some of the individual instruments are clipping... Don't forget that the output is a sum of several signals. The sum could be too high (it's possible to clip an output by mixing a lot of low level signals too, if you get what I mean). Getting this right, that's just the art of mixing (and no, not the art of putting a compressor or limiter on the buss)
Even then, if the internal resolution is high enough, and the clip indicators light, there's not necessarily a problem. So decreasing the output level so there's no clipping there will probably fix the problem...

But seriously, this is bad practice. In my point of view, you should always work as if you are working on hardware. Keep limitations in mind. It's more a matter of principles. What if you ever switch over to hardware mixers? You'll be so used to NOT care about clipping, and that may result in bad surprises.
For example in analog mixers, you'll always mix with the master fader at 0 dB. The master fader is nothing more than a level control for the element in the master buss that gets all the individual signals. If you overload that element, lowering the fader won't solve a bit.

In other words :
Keep everything as clean as possible. Solo each track and look if it clips. If it does, reduce the level so it doesn't clip. Then mix. If the output buss clips, well sorry, you're doing a bad job at mixing. Start over. The aim of mixing is getting your levels right. This means "inter instrument level", while keeping everything in the green too... And this even applies more when you actually record stuff the analog way (like a mic).

taken from http://www.massivemastering.com/htm...re_mixdown.html wich is a pretty well respected masteringfirm...

quote:

DON�T waste hours of time in the studio trying to get a mix to sound �huge�. Here's a little secret... Most recordings, especially those made on a limited budget, get that "huge" sound during the mastering session. I'm not saying to settle for less... Don't walk away with a mix that you're not happy with. Instead, start by trying to make your mix sound well balanced. I can�t tell you how many times I went back into the studio with novice bands to remix. In the studio, they tried to make their mixes sound big time without actually sounding big time themselves. When they'd ask me to go back with them, we concentrated on trying to make everything sound (for lack of a better term) non-irritating. Just good. Playing it safe. Then, during the mastering session, we'd kick in the serious stuff... You'd be surprised what you can do with a �good� but perhaps �boring� sounding mix during a mastering session

I don't even see why you wanna go so high that you clip anything...a good thumbrule to work after is to lower stuff instead of increasing...

if something ain't sounding loud enough then lower the rest of the arrangement instead of raising that element. I know I know, more work but in the end it's always safer to work like that. Otherwise chances are pretty big that you'll raise one channel because it aint loud enough and then discover that something else got eaten up by that so you raise another channel too and so on...

instead of ending up with a well balanced mix you end up with a clipping monster in need of a total remix

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