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-- Speeding Ticket

Speeding Ticket

I got a speeding ticket on black creek, 111KM/h in an 80 zone. It's right when you're coming off the 400 and it turns into an 80. There were a ton of cars, I was not going 31KM faster then everyone else, it was pretty even, I may have been going a little quicker then the other. I wasn't paying attention, they got me on the laser radar. What have others done to fight tickets? I'm thinking pleading not guilty, see what happens, worst is I end up having to pay it. But you can't set a trial date by mail anymore (thought you could) you have to appear now.

Take it to court and hope that the cop doesnt show up. The last 3 times i've done that i've been lucky cause the the cop didnt show. Failing that, even if the cop does show up just plead guilty to a lesser charge, say your a student or some shit like that and they'll knock the ticket back in price/demerit points.

All the times I have fought my tickets the cop showed, but my point were not deducted and the fine always gets dropped to a lesser

Im 3 for 3 in no cop show

Well, if you have the patience and persistence to follow through with this every step of the way:

1. It is not legal for them to require you to appear in person to set a trial date as long as you can confirm that the appropriate papers were served. Realistically, you should do it anyway just to stay out of trouble, but if you seriously can't do it, then:
- Send a letter to the court office (the address on your ticket) via registered mail with a completed Notice of Intention.
- Attach a letter that says (a) you are disputing the charge but cannot be present at the court office due to whatever timing constraints; (b) it is a violation of due process to deny your right to a trial because you cannot appear within 15 days; and (c) if you do not receive your trial notice within 15 days of them having received your Notice of Intention, you will presume the matter resolved and the charge dismissed.
--This may sound weak, but you have as much authority to do this as the province has to issue the instructions on the back of the ticket.

2. Once you have your trial date, change it ASAP (make up some excuse why you can't attend on the day they give). The reason why is that most cops have one day when they go to ALL their trials, and they are less likely to show up if the date is changed.

3. Send the prosecutor a request (registered mail again so you can confirm receipt) for disclosure asking for the officer's copy of the ticket (front and back), any other notes he took, any statements you made that he intends to use against you, and any other witnesses or evidence involved. They HAVE to give this to you - if they don't, then as soon as you issue your plea in court, you bring your mail receipt and make a motion for dismissal due to lack of disclosure - the judge has to follow through on it.

4. If they send you disclosure, you can hope that the cop doesn't show up, but you want to prepare a real case. So read the officer's notes and try to find holes:
- Can he be absolutely sure that it was you he caught on the radar? The more traffic there was, the less sure he could have been. Keep in mind that a radar is at least 2-4 lanes wide, can catch traffic going both directions, and has a long range (about 1 km I think, or more) that can register targets that the officer can't even see.
- Radar law requires cops to make a visual estimate of your speed before even turning on the radar. Some cops know this and lie, but some will admit that they had their radars on the whole time before they even saw you, which immediately makes their evidence inadmissible.
- "Moving radar" (i.e. using radar from a moving car) is a joke, not sure if the cop did this or if it was a regular radar trap, but if he was moving at the time then you can nail him on a whole bunch of different issues.

5. You'll probably get the chance to plead guilty to a lesser charge - if it's just the money, then go for it if they're willing to reduce it to a no-point offense under $50. If you're worried about insurance, definitely plead not guilty. And most importantly, DON'T admit you were speeding AT ALL (you don't want to say "Oh I might have been going 90 but not 110" or "I was just keeping pace with the traffic" because it means nothing).

And of course 6, if the cop doesn't show up to the trial then you're off.

Good luck. Fight your speeding tickets people! You have nothing to lose, and the more court hours we waste, the less effective the system is.

quote:

(c) if you do not receive your trial notice within 15 days of them having received your Notice of Intention, you will presume the matter resolved and the charge dismissed.

WRONG. They're not required to provide you with a date within that time period, you'll go nowhere with that.

quote:

The reason why is that most cops have one day when they go to ALL their trials, and they are less likely to show up if the date is changed.

WRONG. They will reschedule onto another date that the officer is scheduled for court, they don't schedule him in on an offday just because it is convenient for the person requesting to go against their charges.

quote:

They HAVE to give this to you - if they don't, then as soon as you issue your plea in court, you bring your mail receipt and make a motion for dismissal due to lack of disclosure - the judge has to follow through on it.

VERY hard to have the justice of the peace dismiss the charges - either they will postpone it to another date where disclosure is provided - OR - if he/she is an asshole will say that the officer can give you disclosure right now and you'll have to move forward with it in the next court session (say 30 mins/an hour later)

I've gone through all this shit enough times to know it.. I've gotten off a few times.. and just 2 weeks ago I got one on the way to Montreal going 140 on the 401 near Brockville - gonna get a pointts guy for that one since its far away and I can't be bothered.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut - "Moving radar" (i.e. using radar from a moving car) is a joke, not sure if the cop did this or if it was a regular radar trap, but if he was moving at the time then you can nail him on a whole bunch of different issues.

Care to enlighten me on some of these issues? I was pulled over by a moving car, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Harri Care to enlighten me on some of these issues? I was pulled over by a moving car, thanks.

The radar unit in the car has a relative speed setting.

So the cruiser goes @ 110 - sets it at 110 and then it tells the speed relative to the speed of the cruiser.

Capiche?

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper WRONG. They're not required to provide you with a date within that time period, you'll go nowhere with that.

They are required, it's just that they might decide not to do it. They can't legally just issue you a conviction though - that IS a violation of civil rights and is grounds for immediate appeal. I know what you're saying, but it's just a matter of whether or not you stand up for yourself or not.

I've been through this before with parking tickets that have the same rules - they decide to issue a conviction anyway, I write a letter back to them and forward a copy to the MTO saying that this is a violation of my rights and that I'll be taking legal action if they don't rescind the fine and either gotten off or gotten a trial date. You just have to be a jerk about it.

quote:

WRONG. They will reschedule onto another date that the officer is scheduled for court, they don't schedule him in on an offday just because it is convenient for the person requesting to go against their charges.

I could be wrong - but what you're missing is that they have to issue you a new trial date right away, and they don't necessarily *know* what the cops off-days will be that far in the future. I never said it was foolproof though - it just increases the chances of having him not show up.

quote:

VERY hard to have the justice of the peace dismiss the charges - either they will postpone it to another date where disclosure is provided - OR - if he/she is an asshole will say that the officer can give you disclosure right now and you'll have to move forward with it in the next court session (say 30 mins/an hour later)

Again it's just a matter of whether or not you let them do it to you. The absolute worst thing that can happen is that the trial gets postponed - they can't force you to proceed with a trial, and if they try to get you to come back a half hour later then you tell them that completely defeats the purpose of disclosure which is to be able to prepare a case BEFORE the trial date, and that you need to be given time to file for discovery, etc.

If the justice actually tries to schedule you for an hour later, it is again grounds for immediate appeal since it's actually illegal to carry out a case without proper disclosure well in advance. But the system works because most people just aren't persistent enough in court, just like how most people aren't persistent enough to fight the tickets in the first place...


I can't argue with your experience Del, but mine has taught me otherwise. If you earn yourself a reputation as a shit disturber, eventually they'll give up.

quote:

Originally posted by Harri Care to enlighten me on some of these issues? I was pulled over by a moving car, thanks.

Being pulled over by a moving car does not necessarily mean that moving radar was used... usually they'll radar you while stopped and chase after you later.

But with regards to what specifically is wrong with moving radar, RJ is right with how it works. And it introduces a number of problems, such as:
> If you consider the fact that cops can catch people speeding in the other direction, and that antenna radar in patrol cars is omnidirectional by nature, it should clue you into the fact that it does not differentiate properly between cars going 30 km/h faster in front and cars going 30 km/h slower in back. Either one will register 30 relative to the radar.
> In order for the relative speed to work, the cop's speed must stay absolutely constant - but if they had to catch up to you, that's not likely to be the case.
> If the radar registers a relative speed of 0 (i.e. he's going at the same speed, or so he thinks), he could have had his radar pointed just about anywhere INSIDE his own car because it proves nothing. Since radar registers only the *fastest* speed, if you're going *slower* than he is then the radar is more likely to register something completely different.
> If the radar registered as 140 or whatever, then the cop could have made a different mistake and had it pointed at the road or a signpost or something.

Anyway that's just a few things... moving radar is a pretty shakey system.

I'm not claiming to know everything about this, but I have gotten off before so... take it or leave it, that's my opinion.

DigiNut, sorry to say it man.. but you're a huge jerk about these things! Do you have a strategy guide for everything in life!?
lol, it's great if this actually works for you but I'm not the type of person to turn the world over for a ticket. I got a ticket reduced from 3 points & $180, to 0 points and $90 for just talking to the crown before the whole court scene.
whatever, I wouldn't wana bother myself with all that stuff either.

In my experience,

Requested a court date then I contacted the crown attorney myself. Explained my side of the story and the crown attorney and i agreed on a lesser charge.

Thats what the pointts guys do anyways.

Good Luck

Re: Speeding Ticket

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch I got a speeding ticket on black creek, 111KM/h in an 80 zone. It's right when you're coming off the 400 and it turns into an 80. There were a ton of cars, I was not going 31KM faster then everyone else, it was pretty even, I may have been going a little quicker then the other. I wasn't paying attention, they got me on the laser radar. What have others done to fight tickets? I'm thinking pleading not guilty, see what happens, worst is I end up having to pay it. But you can't set a trial date by mail anymore (thought you could) you have to appear now.

did ur insurance go up yet ? and by how much if so .. ??

don't plead guilty !

quote:

Originally posted by Provitex DigiNut, sorry to say it man.. but you're a huge jerk about these things! Do you have a strategy guide for everything in life!? lol, it's great if this actually works for you but I'm not the type of person to turn the world over for a ticket. I got a ticket reduced from 3 points & $180, to 0 points and $90 for just talking to the crown before the whole court scene. whatever, I wouldn't wana bother myself with all that stuff either.

I don't get what you're trying to say. Fine, if you don't wanna bother with going to court then don't, that's the basis for how the system works in the first place. I'm not criticizing the people who don't fight them, I was trying to give some advice on how to actually fight the ticket should he choose to do that, since I figure that pleading guilty is not an attractive option for most people (insurance rates will go up no matter how much you get it reduced - it's the conviction that counts).

If you mean I'm a jerk when dealing with the prosecutors and the courts... then yes, I am, you have to be a jerk in order to get anywhere otherwise they'll walk all over you. What's the big deal - do you think it's immoral to fight the ticket or something? Even if you know you were speeding, everyone still has the right to a trial and the right to know about and challenge the evidence against them, that's pretty much the fundamental basis of legal justice in our country.

So I'm not picking on you if you choose not to exercise that right, but how can you call me a jerk because I choose to and think other people should too? Minor traffic offences are nothing but a tax on the people, they don't save lives, they don't prevent injuries, and I'd be happy to see the entire system cave in on itself and disappear. That's my opinion, whether you like it or not, and I hardly think it makes me a jerk.

Re: Speeding Ticket

quote:

Originally posted by tw1tch I got a speeding ticket on black creek, 111KM/h in an 80 zone. It's right when you're coming off the 400 and it turns into an 80. There were a ton of cars, I was not going 31KM faster then everyone else, it was pretty even, I may have been going a little quicker then the other. I wasn't paying attention, they got me on the laser radar. What have others done to fight tickets? I'm thinking pleading not guilty, see what happens, worst is I end up having to pay it. But you can't set a trial date by mail anymore (thought you could) you have to appear now.

dude that stretch is FUCKED UP. when did you get caught? like what time? I drive through there often cuz I work around there. And its SO *EASY* to speed there since you come right off the 400. Everyone speeds there...no one does the posted speed limit till the first traffic right really.

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