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Pictures the U.S. government didn't want you to see.

Military Coffins: The Photos You're Not Supposed to See (page is undergoing a slashdotting effect so keep trying!)

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These pages are an exact mirrored copy (except for this message) of pages available on thememoryhole.org, which has become unavailable due to the high volume of traffic generated by news reports. These photos were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act by Russ Kick of The Memory Hole. This mirror is provided by Warblogging.com, with images hosted by Antiwar.com:

Link to Dover AFB picture mirror for thememoryhole.org

I really don't understand the big deal about the coffin thing. So what? Soldiers aren't allowed to be patriotic?

Why would the US government not want us to see this? I've seen these pictures and heard that statement along with them dozens of times but not one person has been able to explain exactly why I should feel outraged over it.

Let's see coffins in everyday papers doesn't help recruiting efforts do they?
They also don't help parents think they're doing a good thing by sending their kid abroad to come back in a box.

Fired for taking a freaking picture, what a joke. Every thing with this government is a secret it's hard to believe they're for freedom and democracy, because they're always trying to take away our freedoms.

Didn't you already post this?

That was for the lady that took pictures.

This is for the memoryhole.org noise that's been in the worldwide news.

Many times I've seen multiple threads for the same artist at the same club on the same day and no one barely complains.

I still think that the lady was breaking a rule and she should have been punished simple as that.

I dont think it was about hiding the truth as in every paper every day, on the news, on the internet we have photos of the dead, lists of the fallen soldiers, gory photos, americans burning hanging from bridges, families crying on tv. Its not like we don't know what is going on.

In fact the most somber places I can think of are government attractions, the Vietnam Memorial and the Arlington National Cemetary. Our country is well aware of what happens during war.

If you can tell people what you see at work to bring closure wouldn't you take pictures too? To be a brave person knowing that you can be put out of work takes guts. You wouldn't be making that statement if you had a friend that died in Iraq would you? Besides those "Americans" hanging on the bridges where employees of Blackwater Security. They were ex-soldiers known as mercs or mercenaries whose fellow co-workers avenged their deaths against the Geneva Convention just like Bush did without declaring a legal war.

once again, some of you guys in this thread are being spun.

this time it's "thememoryhole.org" doing the spinning.

The DOD does not publish daily casualty reports for it's fucking health. Knowing full well the body count will end up on every newspaper and television show everywhere.

The images are protected out of respect. The DOD feels that it is not every hamfisted reporter's right to exploit them. But we have in this country, the Freedom of Information Act. Legislation that in which the DOD cannot defend against. Thus, they are forced to release the images that are again, protected out of respect.

This is not about the First Amendment
This is not about the "shady dealings of the Bush administration"
This is not about the boogey man does not want you to see these...
This has become about politics and how to spin people.

Don't be guilty

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo The images are protected out of respect.

They don't want pictures taken because it's a political liability to show our boys coming home in boxes. The respect explanation is their spin.

quote:

The DOD feels that it is not every hamfisted reporter's right to exploit them.

Since when is it considered exploitation to photograph coffins draped in our flag to give our soldiers a proper burial? Other administrations have allowed these types of pictures. I don't hear anyone complaining about close up photographs of JFK's bloody head.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow They don't want pictures taken because it's a political liability to show our boys coming home in boxes. The respect explanation is their spin. Since when is it considered exploitation to photograph coffins draped in our flag to give our soldiers a proper burial? Other administrations have allowed these types of pictures. I don't hear anyone complaining about close up photographs of JFK's bloody head.

your way out in left field again with JFK's bloody head. I'm not even going there.

What the F**K do you know about the DOD and respecting their dead?

Your being spun. Deal.

ok heres the reason (or one of them anyway) why the DOD passed this rule on the 1st day of the Gulf War.

It seems that in 1989, as Bush was making a press confernece on live TV to all the networks a plane with caskets arrived back in Denton (think it was denton they said) field. Now some brilliant guy got the idea to justaxpos the ceremony of the flag drapped coffins arriving to USA soil again with Bush's press conference - extremly bad taste in most everyone's opinion.

So to prevent such a future debcaul the DOD decided the reporters would not get the best of them and abuse the bodies of their fallen comrades for politican purposes again...


It was on nightline today. Interesting. Ted made a really good report on it.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Let's see coffins in everyday papers doesn't help recruiting efforts do they? They also don't help parents think they're doing a good thing by sending their kid abroad to come back in a box.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow They don't want pictures taken because it's a political liability to show our boys coming home in boxes. The respect explanation is their spin.

Similar arguments, but neither one really makes any sense.

Like OMG, American soldiers are coming back in coffins!?!? Who would have thought that people actually die in a war zone!!! get real.

I do agree that it was ridiculous for the reporter to get fired for using the pictures. But I also don't understand for the life of me what the hell the problem is - WOW, troops die in a war, I'M SO INCREDIBLY SHOCKED AND APALLED .

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Similar arguments, but neither one really makes any sense. Like OMG, American soldiers are coming back in coffins!?!? Who would have thought that people actually die in a war zone!!! get real. I do agree that it was ridiculous for the reporter to get fired for using the pictures. But I also don't understand for the life of me what the hell the problem is - WOW, troops die in a war, I'M SO INCREDIBLY SHOCKED AND APALLED .

Your sarcasm needs a little work but for some people only one of those coffins holds an ex-family member that will affect hundreds of lives day in day out... when you suffer the same it is only then your jokes, sarcasm and immaturity will vanquish

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b Your sarcasm needs a little work but for some people only one of those coffins holds an ex-family member that will affect hundreds of lives day in day out... when you suffer the same it is only then your jokes, sarcasm and immaturity will vanquish

So if I'm following your line of reasoning, the families of those dead soldiers should be mortified that their fellow soldiers are showing respect and giving them an honourable and patriotic burial?

Or is there something else I'm missing here?

*yawn*

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut So if I'm following your line of reasoning, the families of those dead soldiers should be mortified that their fellow soldiers are showing respect and giving them an honourable and patriotic burial? Or is there something else I'm missing here?

Theres much your missing

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Similar arguments, but neither one really makes any sense. Like OMG, American soldiers are coming back in coffins!?!? Who would have thought that people actually die in a war zone!!! get real. I do agree that it was ridiculous for the reporter to get fired for using the pictures. But I also don't understand for the life of me what the hell the problem is - WOW, troops die in a war, I'M SO INCREDIBLY SHOCKED AND APALLED .

Personally I think that we're putting a little too much faith in our politicians if we immediately assume that it's out of respect. Politicians want to get elected. Bad. Photo like these aren't going to help with regards to this - at all.

Let me expand on that a bit. The public knows that people die in wars - but they don't see it. They hear about it on the news now and then, they might catch a report on the radio, but it's all a bit impersonal. They generally don't see images like these. Like it or not, a lot of people feel withdrawn from the war, it isn't necessarily 'real'. Now, the US, on the whole - is an extremely patriotic country. As such, pictures like these are going to have a big effect on people, because they make the war real. When people see coffins with the US flag on them lined up like they're items on a convener belt, it's going to have an effect on them, and in the current climate (Bush being in trouble on the domestic front), these photos aren't going to help Bush.

Now, I do think it's idiotic that people need to see these photos to realize that war is real, and that people do die in war - but let's face it, a lot of people are either idiots, or they're just generally ignorant.

That's my take on it anyhow.

Good point arctic.

People seem to think I'm being cold or unsympathetic with my reactions to pictures like these, but they fail to see that the reason they don't phase me is because I already know what the reality is.

And it's ironic in a way, because the people who scream the most about war and oppression and things like that are often the ones who have only been exposed to a miniscule amount of it, through a couple of sensational pictures or videos or documentaries. That I think is what gives rise to this "armchair activism" that's so common with anti-war and anti-American and anti-colonial nuts.

Yeah war sucks, but you take a different attitude once you've had a family member die in one, or seen someone shot or seen the panic ensue when airport officials find a bomb in someone's suitcase - without a TV between yourself and the impending event.

These pictures don't shock or surprise me. U.S. soldiers could just as easily leave their casualties in the field to rot, but instead they put them in coffins and salute as they get buried. Even if it's just for show, to me it is a sign of respect and not a shocking scene of horror. If people are shocked by this, it's as you say - because they've been sheltered. If I actually had family in Iraq that died, why *wouldn't* I want to know that they were at least being given a proper burial? If I'd had family killed in Iraq, I'd already know the "horrors" of war, and this picture wouldn't make it any worse.

No, this picture serves one purpose and only one purpose - to shock the sheltered masses who still haven't clued into the fact that people die in war. And while I suppose there may be many of those, there are also many of us who know and understand that fact already and have accepted it. But I suppose that's just my take on it...

what upsets me the most about these pictures (I am going to leave the whole is the war right or wrong thing out of this) is the fact that our President (Mr. Bush) is not there... It pisses me off that he has only attended two of these ceremonies since the beginning of the war. He should be at every single one, these men died for his decision; I see no reason (especially travel/fundraising for his re-election campaign) to miss these ceremonies, these men gave up everything.

/end rant

Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John Molino has said that such photos focus attention in ways that are "unwarranted and undignified." As a result, the photographer and her husband were both fired from their jobs.

If memory serves, Bush Jr. proudly created a TV commercial ad using images of firefighters removing a flag-draped coffin from the wreckage of the World Trade Center, much to the dismay and outrage from other NY firefighters.

I wonder if Molino, given the opportunity, would apply his standard to Bush and fire him as a consequence?

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