TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- A Primer on "terrorist"
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

A Primer on "terrorist"

A lesson, and dont tell me the earth is square in Zionville.

Dad ... what's a terrorist?
By David Campbell
April 23, 2004


Dad ... what's a terrorist?

Well, according to the Oxford dictionary a terrorist is "a person who uses violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims". Which means that terrorists are very bad men and women who frighten ordinary people like us, and sometimes even kill them.

Why do they kill them?

Because they hate them or their country. It's hard to explain ... it's just the way things are. For many different reasons a lot of people in our world are full of hate.

Like the ones in Iraq who are capturing people and saying that they'll kill them if all the soldiers don't leave?

Exactly! That's an evil thing called "blackmail". Those innocent people are hostages, and the terrorists are saying that if governments don't do what they want the hostages will be killed.

So was it blackmail when we said we'd attack Iraq and kill innocent people unless they told us where all their weapons were?


No! Well ... yes, I suppose. In a way. But that was an "ultimatum" ... call it "good blackmail.

Good blackmail? What's that?

That's when it's done for good reasons. Those weapons were very dangerous and could have hurt a lot of people all over the world. It was very important to find them and destroy them.

But Dad ... there weren't any weapons.

True. We know that now. But we didn't at the time. We thought there were.

So was killing all those innocent people in Iraq a mistake?

No. It was a tragedy, but we also saved a lot of lives. You see, we had to stop a very cruel man called Saddam Hussein from killing a great many ordinary Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein stayed in power by giving orders that meant thousands of people died or were horribly injured. Mothers and fathers. Even children.

Like that boy I saw on TV? The one who had his arms blown off by a bomb?

Yes ... just like him.

But we did that. Does that mean our leaders are terrorists?

Good heavens, no! Whatever gave you that idea? That was just an accident. Unfortunately, innocent people get hurt in a war. You can't expect anything else when you drop bombs on cities. Nobody wants it to happen ... it's just the way things are.

So in a war only soldiers are supposed to get killed?

Well, soldiers are trained to fight for their country. It's their job, and they're very brave. They know that war is dangerous and that they might be killed. As soon as they put on a uniform they become a target.

What uniforms do terrorists wear?

That's just the problem ... they don't! We can't tell them apart from the civilians. We don't know who we're fighting. And that's why so many innocent people are getting killed ... the terrorists don't follow the rules of war.

War has rules?

Oh, yes. Soldiers must wear uniforms. And you can't just suddenly attack someone unless they do something to you first. Then you can defend yourself.

So that's why we attacked Iraq? Because Iraq attacked us first and we were just defending ourselves?

Not exactly. Iraq didn't attack us ... but it might have. We decided to get in first. Just in case Iraq used those weapons we were talking about.

The ones they didn't have? So we broke the rules of war?

Technically speaking, yes. But ...

So if we broke the rules first, why isn't it OK for those people in Iraq who aren't wearing uniforms to break the rules?

Well, that's different. We were doing the right thing when we broke the rules.

But Dad ... how do we know we were doing the right thing?

Our leaders ... Bush and Blair and Howard ... they told us it was the right thing. And if they don't know, who does? They say that something had to be done to make Iraq a better place.

Is it a better place?

I suppose so, but I don't know for sure. Innocent people are still being killed and these kidnappings are terrible things. I feel very sorry for the families of those poor hostages, but we simply can't give in to terrorists. We must stand firm.

Would you say that if I was captured by terrorists?

Uh ... yes ... no ... I mean, it's very difficult ...

So you'd let me be killed? Don't you love me?

Of course! I love you very much. It's just that it's a very complicated issue and I don't know what I'd do ...

Well, if somebody attacked us and bombed our house and killed you and Mum and Jamie I know what I'd do.

What?

I'd find out who did it and kill them. Any way I could. I'd hate them for ever and ever.

But ... but ... you'd kill a lot of innocent people.

I know. But it's war, Dad. And that's just the way things are. Remember?

David Campbell is a Melbourne writer.

dad what's a troll?

i donna son, never saw one



p.s.
good of you to include the name of the author for a change. Who knows maybe next time we'll get a source too!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus dad what's a troll? i donna son, never saw one p.s. good of you to include the name of the author for a change. Who knows maybe next time we'll get a source too!

Your childish humour is amusing, how old are you, 14? Sounds like it. Anyways i told you already, whoever wants a source can just PM, some did and i gave it to them....But this is the STUPIDEST thing I have heard...you missed the whole point of the article...ITS NOT AN EVENT THAT TOOK PLACE, its a lesson!

Please try again

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b Your childish humour is amusing, how old are you, 14? Sounds like it.

Thank you, I try my harded to keep this place as light hearted as possible.

quote:

Anyways i told you already, whoever wants a source can just PM, some did and i gave it to them....But this is the STUPIDEST thing I have heard...

Wow, and your acusing me of not being around the block enough times!

Surely you've This isn't the STUPIDEST thing you've heard...

quote:

you missed the whole point of the article...ITS NOT AN EVENT THAT TOOK PLACE, its a lesson!

Oh you like lessons do you?

Great! Try this one on for size:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=172384

Read that a while ago...and nicely rebutted as well. Thanks for the link though, send more like it if you have time.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus good of you to include the name of the author for a change. Who knows maybe next time we'll get a source too!

It was published in the opinion section of 'The Age' a yesterday - I remember reading it.

http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/...2616260498.html

Melbourne only has two major daily papers (there are lots of others, but none of them are particularly large, circulation wise), so the 'Melbourne Writer' bit should have given you a clue if you were in the mood for an investigation.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of this article. So far, my best guess is that "stupid parents tend to have stupid children."

is this guy the antithesis of mike or something?

I have a dictionary copyrighted from 1972 that says a terrorist is also a government.
If you don't think that, apply terrorist (without the current definition I just made) to a government like N. Korea, China, Hitler's Germany, Communist USSR, Pinochet's Chile and others and you'll see.

Thats why children rock! They say whatever it is they are thinking without consideration and usualy make adults confused nervous or embarrased

Now if this would be a real case i would pat the child on his back and instructed him to go for the KO in the next round. Its about time his father started thinking for himself and stopped beliving all that propaganda BS on TV.

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b Read that a while ago...and nicely rebutted as well. Thanks for the link though, send more like it if you have time.

lol, nicely rebutted by ad-hominems and stubborn contradictions, you mean?

I sort of imagine you as a 150-lb lightweight in a boxing ring facing a 300-lb crusher, and you nick him in the nose, turn your back and walk away with your arms raised in triumph.

Sure, pay no heed to the utterly crushing force of logic and reason against your propaganda... just ignore it, or find someone else who posted a pathetic objection and say that they already took care of it. Good strategy! Now go away.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut lol, nicely rebutted by ad-hominems and stubborn contradictions, you mean? I sort of imagine you as a 150-lb lightweight in a boxing ring facing a 300-lb crusher, and you nick him in the nose, turn your back and walk away with your arms raised in triumph. Sure, pay no heed to the utterly crushing force of logic and reason against your propaganda... just ignore it, or find someone else who posted a pathetic objection and say that they already took care of it. Good strategy! Now go away.

Diginuts...i thing your fantasizing about me..whatever works for you, but anyways cut the rhetoric, hate and BS and say something useful or dont say anything

And stop beating around the bush as well, you probably dodnt even bother reading the post, if you did, you pulled another one of your classics...ignoring the post and trying to attaack wherever your hate can build tension, please dont hate and try again

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I'm still trying to figure out the point of this article. So far, my best guess is that "stupid parents tend to have stupid children."

hehe, nice way to put it

No, for stupid parents, there is still hope to have smarter children... but i see for some, well...

Wow sufee, I didn't realize it when you were just posting articles, but you can barely speak any English yourself. Man, that's just attrocious spelling and grammar - not to mention that you still haven't said anything useful up to this point.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Wow sufee, I didn't realize it when you were just posting articles, but you can barely speak any English yourself. Man, that's just attrocious spelling and grammar - not to mention that you still haven't said anything useful up to this point.

its called typing fast b/c i have other things to do croc master...i havent said n e thing useful...TO YOU...but many others think opposite of you, many, TG... try not to get upset please, and dont be shy to try again

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Wow sufee, I didn't realize it when you were just posting articles, but you can barely speak any English yourself. Man, that's just attrocious spelling and grammar - not to mention that you still haven't said anything useful up to this point.

YOu also remind of a movie i watched... a guy who lied, cheated, acted like he knew info. but really knew shit, used his time and effort towards trying to talk his way out of situations and trying to talk his way to importance by masking himself.. until one put it quite simply: "Some people, you can just look at and know they are talking shit" Oh, and i would suppose you would wish for a source on the movie

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b its called typing fast b/c i have other things to do croc master...i havent said n e thing useful...TO YOU...but many others think opposite of you, many, TG... try not to get upset please, and dont be shy to try again

quote:

Originally posted by sufee_b its called typing fast b/c i have other things to do croc master...i havent said n e thing useful...TO YOU...but many others think opposite of you, many, TG... try not to get upset please, and dont be shy to try again

Oh right... who was the one that said the holocaust didn't happen? I don't think that "many others", even several of the Palestinian supporters in this forum, care a dime about anything you have to say. Apparently you've never heard of melech mike but you really are his polar opposite - posting ass loads of anti-Israel propaganda and then just bitching mindlessly at everyone who disagrees.

You really should stop using the "cool" emoticon and you also should stop acting like you know anything about me, since those are both quite false.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Oh right... who was the one that said the holocaust didn't happen? I don't think that "many others", even several of the Palestinian supporters in this forum, care a dime about anything you have to say. Apparently you've never heard of melech mike but you really are his polar opposite - posting ass loads of anti-Israel propaganda and then just bitching mindlessly at everyone who disagrees. You really should stop using the "cool" emoticon and you also should stop acting like you know anything about me, since those are both quite false.

I never said that u croc...if u cant dstinguish sarcasm from truth then u shouldnt be running your mouth...AN PLEASE READ ALLL THE POSTS CAREFULLY NEXT U CROC...

And the same applies to u diginuts, posting much BS on here with a couple of supporters like Yoeppuss, and by the way...i have many supporters on here, u know it and it bothers u as well...

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Oh right... who was the one that said the holocaust didn't happen?

Prove it!

Speaking of terrorism and kidnapping, I've got a true story of State terrorism.

"Israel is also thought to possess an arsenal of potentially up to several hundred nuclear warheads and associated delivery systems, but this has never been openly confirmed or denied. An Israeli nuclear installation is located about ten kilometers to the south of Dimona, the Negev Nuclear Research Center. Its construction commmenced in 1958, with French assistance. The official reason given by the Israeli and French governments was to build a nuclear reactor to power a "desalination plant", in order to "green the Negev". The purpose of Dimona is widely assumed to be the manufacturing of nuclear weapons, and the majority of defence experts have concluded that it does in fact do that. However, the Israeli government refuses to confirm or deny this publicly, a policy it refers to as "ambiguity". When the United States intelligence community discovered the purpose of Dimona in the early 1960s, it demanded that Israel agree to international inspections. Israel agreed, but on a condition that US, rather than IAEA, inspectors were used, and that Israel would receive advanced notice of all inspections. Some claim that because Israel knew the schedule of the inspectors' visits, it was able to hide the alleged purpose of the site from the inspectors by installing temporary false walls and other devices before each inspection. The inspectors eventually informed the U.S. government that their inspections were useless due to Israeli restrictions on what areas of the facility they could inspect. In 1969, the United States terminated the inspections. In 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a former technican at Dimona, revealed to the media some evidence of Israel's nuclear programme. Israeli agents kidnapped him from Italy, drugged him and transported him to Israel, and an Israeli court then tried him in secret on charges of treason and espionage, and sentenced him to eighteen years imprisonment."

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Prove it! Speaking of terrorism and kidnapping, I've got a true story of State terrorism. "Israel is also thought to possess an arsenal of potentially up to several hundred nuclear warheads and associated delivery systems, but this has never been openly confirmed or denied. An Israeli nuclear installation is located about ten kilometers to the south of Dimona, the Negev Nuclear Research Center. Its construction commmenced in 1958, with French assistance. The official reason given by the Israeli and French governments was to build a nuclear reactor to power a "desalination plant", in order to "green the Negev". The purpose of Dimona is widely assumed to be the manufacturing of nuclear weapons, and the majority of defence experts have concluded that it does in fact do that. However, the Israeli government refuses to confirm or deny this publicly, a policy it refers to as "ambiguity". When the United States intelligence community discovered the purpose of Dimona in the early 1960s, it demanded that Israel agree to international inspections. Israel agreed, but on a condition that US, rather than IAEA, inspectors were used, and that Israel would receive advanced notice of all inspections. Some claim that because Israel knew the schedule of the inspectors' visits, it was able to hide the alleged purpose of the site from the inspectors by installing temporary false walls and other devices before each inspection. The inspectors eventually informed the U.S. government that their inspections were useless due to Israeli restrictions on what areas of the facility they could inspect. In 1969, the United States terminated the inspections. In 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a former technican at Dimona, revealed to the media some evidence of Israel's nuclear programme. Israeli agents kidnapped him from Italy, drugged him and transported him to Israel, and an Israeli court then tried him in secret on charges of treason and espionage, and sentenced him to eighteen years imprisonment."

Vanunu has already been discussed at length. Regardless, I'll restate the numerous questions I have:

• What specifically did he reveal?
  
• Did he know it was confidential?
  
• If it was confidential and he knew it, then doesn't revealing confidential government secrets fit the legal definition of treason?
  
• If what he committed was indeed an act of treason, how could Israel's response be considered terrorism as opposed to ordinary law enforcement?
  
• Since he was merely imprisoned and let go later, without any public spectacle or unusual punishment, how could it be considered morally reprehensible at all?

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Prove it!

what you think its funny?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Vanunu has already been discussed at length. Regardless, I'll restate the numerous questions I have:

If you would like theses question answered then research it.

I guess this must be an example of kidnapping done for the right reason (i.e. the ends justify the means). The legal procedure for apprehending someone who has been accused of a crime and fled the country is call extradition. Maybe Israel felt it was too difficult to extradite someone for releasing info about a nuclear weapons program that doesn�t exist.

quote:

I also noticed that you didn't post a source, but for the moment I'll assume that the information is relatively accurate, although it wouldn't shock me if other members of this forum think otherwise, or that important details are being omitted.

Here's a suggestion, if there is something you want to dispute then you provide evidence to disprove it.

quote:

Originally posted by Flotser what you think its funny?

It's an inside joke in response to digi always asking me to prove events and facts in my post, even when they are common knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow If you would like theses question answered then research it.

LOL, see? This is an absolutely perfect example of what Arbiter was talking about in the other thread:

quote:

There are a lot of people who seem to like to go out on the web and look up a bunch of political advocacy and then think they've acquired great insight into the subject matter, but then when they get into a debate which gets more detailed and specific than the articles they've been reading they're totally lost.

Are you seeing it now igottaknow? If you don't know your facts, then don't argue! The fact is that I DO know the answers to these questions (well, only to a limited extent about what the secrets were obviously). The point was to see if YOU knew, and you obviously don't, so if you don't even know all the facts, why are you so quick to form an opinion? Instead you just post some vague information, draw your conclusion, and tell ME to go do the research. Whew, talk about armchair activism!

Look at the facts, THEN form an opinion. Don't form an opinion and scrounge for facts later to support it.

quote:

Here's a suggestion, if there is something you want to dispute then you provide evidence to disprove it.

Of course! Everything you say is true unless someone can prove you wrong!

And once again:

quote:

It's an inside joke in response to digi always asking me to prove events and facts in my post, even when they are common knowledge.

Please stop posting this BULLSHIT, nothing you say is "common knowledge", it is "your personal opinion!"

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.