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-- Im very angry !!

Im very angry !!

Why dont exist in europe Forum a Spain Forum ??? spain is european !!
To seeing if we create a forum for the European Spanish

Regards
PD:I am very angry with the managers of the forum, Assurance that people would enter more if you were creating it..

It has nothing to do with ignoring certain countries or whatnot, it has to do with member activity from that area.

I guess you can consider this your petition - you need at least 15 active members to ask Swamper for a new forum.

I understand your politics Tranc3, i will look for 15 persons to seeing if we can create the new forum..

Thank you.

Re: Im very angry !!

quote:

Originally posted by Telemakko I am very angry with the managers of the forum, Assurance that people would enter more if you were creating it..

Hello, I'm Lira and I'm the moderator of the Ibero-American forum, so maybe I can help you a little. Here are some things you should consider before asking for yet another regional forum:

• Creation of forums are based on the amount of regular users and need: Not by political reasons. The only reason why Ibero-America could be created was because we gathered more than 15 people (who posted regularly) and waited for 3 months before the administrator could give us our forum. As for Spain's particular case, read the next topic.
  
• Spain already has a regional forum: Differently from many other important countries (such as Italy), Spain already has a place where you can talk about regional events. Just because you share it with other Spanish speaking countries doesn't mean you're being ignored (Portugal is also in the European Union, by the way). If the messages about Spain were clogging the forum, this would be a fair reason for the creation of a new forum, but this is not the case at all (even us Brazilians post more than you Spaniards do). I usually support the creation of new forums (read the threads about the creation of the Belgian and the Russian forum and you'll see I was helping them as much as I could), but this is not the case. In fact, the only reason why the forum is called "Ibero-America" is because there are the Iberian countries (Spain and Portugal). If it make you any happier, we can rename the forum to "latin forum" and call the French to make us company
  
• Lack of need: Like I said, the Spanish users don't post that much (the whole explanation is in the Spanish thread). Spain is, indeed the country that posts the most in the Spanish-speaking forum (the same way Brazilians have taken over the Portuguese-speaking forum), but it's not like we're having problems with it. In fact, Ibero-America itself is the regional forum with less posts (currently 9317), whereas more recent forums (like the Belgian) have way more posts (currently 19433). Finally, the Spanish speaking forum has just 30% of all posts in Ibero-America (the Portuguese speaking forum has the other 70%). Therefore, the numbers prove there's no need for yet another forum.
  
• Anger is useless: Sit back, think of what (and how) you're doing and check if it's really worth it. You already posted an irate thread in the Spanish forum, in which you were unable to say what your reasons are (as a foreigner, it just seemed to me to be a case of boastful nationalism, which is comprehensible). If you really want something, don't be carried way by your emotions. Check what the conditions are and what you can do (i.e. in this case, instead of creating another forum, make the Spanish users post more and have a more active forum). Otherwise, you may fail even in cases where you could get something.
  

The problem is that when a spanish user enters to TA thinks is only in english and in here not many ppl have the level of english for post frequently. So they don't see a forum where to talk in spanish and they don't register. In fact in the beginning I didn't realize that existed a spanish forum.

I think many spanish ppl would register if they see a Spain Forum and they would know TA. It's easy just post a link of Tranceaddict in the most important spanish EDM websites and many clubbers will register. I'm sure if we make a good advertising many new users would register and Spain will have a own forum soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira If it make you any happier, we can rename the forum to "latin forum" and call the French to make us company

Agreed with all the rest!! Lira
but in this point I disagree. Latin sounds me strange... I'm not consider latin for living in Spain, and I'm sure my french neighbours don't do too. For me it's a false stereotype.
Sounds me better mediterranean forums where spanish, french, italian, greeks clubbers discuss

quote:

Originally posted by UnBracKo I'm not consider latin for living in Spain, and I'm sure my french neighbours don't do too. For me it's a false stereotype.

It's not a stereotype, it's a fact.

A couple of millenia ago, the Roman Empire ruled the shore of the Mediterranean sea (known as "Mare Nostrum") and they conquered/colonised this part. These conquerers/settlers soon started a miscigenation process with the natives and vulgar latin become the language spoken in these areas (with different characteristics according to the area). Despite of the obvious differences, they all have this linguistic and cultural link amongst themselves. Later on, these dialects became proper languages known as the Romance languages, and each people acquired their own identity as soon as the idea of State emerged (back in Portugal in the 15th century, for example).

As we all know, most parts of America were colonised by countries that shared this roman/latin ancestry, like Portugal, France and Spain (reminder: "Latin" stands for "Lazio", region where Rome is located)... not to mention that both Amerigo Vespucci and Christopher Columbus were Italian. This is why we have some things in common (like the Catholic religion, hot blood and languages that look alike - reason why I didn't bother translating "mare nostrum"). The difference between the people who colonised America and those who remained in Europe is simple: here miscigenation once again played an important role (in fact, if you're very picky, you can divide South America in 3 parts, for example, since miscigenation was different in the Platin countries, in the Andine countries and in Brazil).

And that's about it. Soon, our cultures will be even more different, our languages will look weirder to us and we'll still have the same origin: thanks to those Roman colonisers who conquered new lands and the Iberian sailors that "discovered" America.

Nevertheless, keep in mind we're divided by 4 words
Latino: Latin America (this is the word you're thinking of, and which seems to have some prejudice linked to it)
Hispanic: Latin America + Iberia
Latin: Hispanic countries + France + Italy + Romania, etc...

... and, the one you mentioned:

quote:

Originally posted by UnBracKo Sounds me better mediterranean forums where spanish, french, italian, greeks clubbers discuss

"Mediterranean" could be applied if:
1) All people from the Mediterranean were added (from Morocco till Yugoslavia)
2) Depending on the interpretation, we, from Latin America were ditched (if you consider the historical factors, we would still be with you; if you consider the geography, we're automatically out).
----------
If "Ibero" stands for the Iberian peninsula, and America stands for the countries colonised by the Iberian countries, I can't see what the problem is.

In fact, why divide when we can unite? In the end of the day, we're humans anyway. Except for my brother, I can't decide what he is

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Nevertheless, keep in mind we're divided by 4 words Latino: Latin America (this is the word you're thinking of, and which seems to have some prejudice linked to it) Hispanic: Latin America + Iberia Latin: Hispanic countries + France + Italy + Romania, etc...

I confused words, I thought you were refering us like latinos

quote:

"Mediterranean" could be applied if: 1) All people from the Mediterranean were added (from Morocco till Yugoslavia) 2) Depending on the interpretation, we, from Latin America were ditched (if you consider the historical factors, we would still be with you; if you consider the geography, we're automatically out). ----------

Since I named 4 countries I considered historical, cultural factors however a part of Spain, France and Italy is not mediterranean but in general we can consider these countries mediterranean.

quote:

If "Ibero" stands for the Iberian peninsula, and America stands for the countries colonised by the Iberian countries, I can't see what the problem is. In fact, why divide when we can unite? In the end of the day, we're humans anyway. Except for my brother, I can't decide what he is

Yeah but nowadays we are more closed to europeans and not to south-americans. No problem with it just its a bit odd to see Spain in the Ibero-America group and then see Europe forums next to us. Seems like we are too far from Europe and we are in Europe!!

Hola !!

Lira me ha gustado tu clase de historia pero hay muchas cosas en las que no estoy de acuerdo y que no voy a entrar.. pero est� claro que en historia est�s suspenso o por lo menos en su interpretaci�n en lo que actualmente entendemos por "Latino" e "Ibero" palabras que no corresponden con lo que dices..las cultiras ibero-americana y espa�ola difieren bastante aunque tengan un idioma com�n..y no quiero entrar m�s en este tema por que t� no eres espa�ol y no puedes terminar de entenderlo

quote:

Originally posted by UnBracKo The problem is that when a spanish user enters to TA thinks is only in english and in here not many ppl have the level of english for post frequently. So they don't see a forum where to talk in spanish and they don't register. In fact in the beginning I didn't realize that existed a spanish forum. I think many spanish ppl would register if they see a Spain Forum and they would know TA. It's easy just post a link of Tranceaddict in the most important spanish EDM websites and many clubbers will register. I'm sure if we make a good advertising many new users would register and Spain will have a own forum soon.

Totalmente de acuerdo con Unbracko yo por ejemplo lo leo y lo entiendo pero escrito muy mal xD y bueno com yo muchos espa�oles..

Como bien dec�a UnBracko si tuvi�ramos un foro espa�ol te puedo asegurar que habr�a m�s volumen de mensajes pero mucha gente no se registra o no entra por el motivo de no tener un foro claramente diferenciado para espa�oles ya que en espa�a hay muchas webs trance con mogoll�n de tr�fico de mensajes y te puedo asegurar que el foro de tranceaddict se ver�a beneficiado en poco tiempo ya que por lo que a mi respecta traer�a a bastante gente a este foro por lo que vosotros sereis los primeros beneficiados por aumentar vustra popularidad (m�s de la que tiene)..


Salu2 y gracias

Hola otra vez!

Mirando lo del tr�fico de mensajes entre foros me he dado cuenta que el foro espa�ol tiene m�s tr�fico que el Finland�s por ejemplo:

Spanish
For Spanish speaking partiers from around the world to communicate... Posts:2838 Threads:342

Europe - Finland
Home to Orkidea, Darude, Nokia and apparently Santa Claus as well. Posts:2297 Threads:123

Por lo que veo que hay foros como el Finlad�s que est� dentro del europeo y tiene menos tr�fico que el espa�ol !!

Lira,no entiendo por qu� tanta oposici�n a meter nuestro foro d�nde corresponde !! perdona que me obligado a pensar en otras razones menos objetivas por la no creaci�n del mismo dadas las circunstancias..


Salu2.

at the end of the day ur probs not gonna get a forum, coz there is nowhere near enough ACTIVE members or scene in said country to warrent one, you were lucky to get the ibero american one and lok at that, its dead.

i think the 15 person rules should change because you get a lot of people who post once to say there should be a forum then never appear again. it should be based o nthe amount of regular memebers.

(that's true, ste)

Telemakko, el foro finland�s fue creado este a�o mientras el foro hispano-hablante existe hace dos a�os... y ellos casi tienen la misma cuantidad de mensajes.

Yo soy contra la creaci�n de un nuevo foro regional porque: Ustedes ya lo tienen. Como ya he dicho, aunque lo tengan junto de los TA's de Am�rica, no podr�an tenerlo sin ellos, por causa de la cuantidad de personas. Si hubiera ahora un foro solamente para los europeos, tendr�amos un foro americano a�n/aun menor. Mira cuantas pessoas han contestado en tus t�picos: no creo que hayan tantos espa�oles regularmente postando ac�, �no es?

Tu, por ejemplo, no tienes ni 20 mensajes, y est�s registrado hace mucho tiempo

Alright, I'll try to be as fair as possible:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...502#post2710502

Here's a poll in which you Spaniards can discuss about the changes with the people who live in America.

Let's see what everybody thinks about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira (that's true, ste) Yo soy contra la creaci�n de un nuevo foro regional porque: Ustedes ya lo tienen. Como ya he dicho, aunque lo tengan junto de los TA's de Am�rica, no podr�an tenerlo sin ellos, por causa de la cuantidad de personas. Si hubiera ahora un foro solamente para los europeos, tendr�amos un foro americano a�n/aun menor. Mira cuantas pessoas han contestado en tus t�picos: no creo que hayan tantos espa�oles regularmente postando ac�, �no es?

mmm, por lo que dices creo que lo que te preocupa realmente es moderar un foro m�s peque�o.

quote:

Originally posted by jlosada mmm, por lo que dices creo que lo que te preocupa realmente es moderar un foro m�s peque�o.

I don't care about the size of the forums I mod: I care about those who still have got no forum. Why would the latin americans have a forum with 5 people and the Russians wouldn't with 6 people?

jlosada es evidente jeje

Salu2

it would be most helpful if them posts were in english, can't really comment apart from agreeing with ste

quote:

Originally posted by Luke Terry it would be most helpful if them posts were in english, can't really comment apart from agreeing with ste

Here are the translations of the posts after mine (with the history)

quote:

Originally posted by telemakko Hello!! Lira, I liked your history class but there are things I don't agree with and that I won't talk about... (sentence that I didn't understand much). Or at least your interpretation on what we really understand as "latin" or "ibero" words that don't correspond to what you say... ibero-american and spanish cultures are different, despite of the common language... and I don' want to talk about it either because you're not spanish and you can't understand all of it quote: Originally posted by UnBracKo The problem is that when a spanish user enters to TA thinks is only in english and in here not many ppl have the level of english for post frequently. So they don't see a forum where to talk in spanish and they don't register. In fact in the beginning I didn't realize that existed a spanish forum. I think many spanish ppl would register if they see a Spain Forum and they would know TA. It's easy just post a link of Tranceaddict in the most important spanish EDM websites and many clubbers will register. I'm sure if we make a good advertising many new users would register and Spain will have a own forum soon. Totally agree with unbracko as I, for example can read it, but I write it poorly xD and welll with many spaniards... as unbracko said if we had a spanish forum I can assure you we would have more posts, but many people don't register or don't log in because there isn't a clearly placed forum for Spanish people since in spain there are many websites about trance with a huge amount of posts and I can assure you that the forum from tranceaddict will grow in little time since (something I didn't understand) would bring people to this forum and you'll be one with most benefits as it'll increase your popularity. Cheers and thank you

quote:

Originally posted by telemakko Hello again! I noticed the amount of posts of other forums and I realised that the Spanish speaking forum has more traffic than the Finnish one, for example: Spanish For Spanish speaking partiers from around the world to communicate... Posts:2838 Threads:342 Europe - Finland Home to Orkidea, Darude, Nokia and apparently Santa Claus as well. Posts:2297 Threads:123 As I can see there are forums like the Finnish one with less traffic than the spanish!!! Lira, I don't understand why you're against placing our forum to the place where it belongs Sorry if I'm forced to think in less objective reasons for the reaction against the creation of our forum according to the circunstances. Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by ste at the end of the day ur probs not gonna get a forum, coz there is nowhere near enough ACTIVE members or scene in said country to warrent one, you were lucky to get the ibero american one and lok at that, its dead. i think the 15 person rules should change because you get a lot of people who post once to say there should be a forum then never appear again. it should be based o nthe amount of regular memebers.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira (that's true, ste) Telemakko, the Finish forum was created this year, while the spanish speaking forum exists for two years and they've got almost the same amount of posts. I'm against the creation of a new regional forum because: you've already got it. As I've already said, even though you shar it with the TA's from America, you couldn't have it without them, because of the amount of people. If there were now a forum exclusively for the Europeans, the forum would be even smaller. Check how many people have been answered your threads: there aren't many Spaniards posting regularly here, right? You, for example, have got less than 20 posts, and you registered a long time ago Alright, I'll try to be as fair as possible: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...502#post2710502 Here's a poll in which you Spaniards can discuss about the changes with the people who live in America. Let's see what everybody thinks about it.

quote:

Originally posted by jlosada Taking from what you said it seems that what worries you is modding a tiny forum

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I don't care about the size of the forums I mod: I care about those who still have got no forum. Why would the latin americans have a forum with 5 people and the Russians wouldn't with 6 people?

quote:

Originally posted by telemakko jlosada, it's obvious hehe Cheers

quote:

then comes your post

"Obvious", telemakko? Stop playing the victim as you know how much I've tried to help you with this forum thing. I've already brought it to discussion in the Spanish forum (as you couldn't continue the discussion in English) and I showed you the many reasons why I was against it, and, despite of what I first said, I decided that it would be fair to have a poll, so we could decide it amongst all users.

I'm doing everything I can, discussing this issue with all users in order to be as fair as possible. In fact, as you guys don't speak English very well, I'll bother to translate as many posts from the poll as possible... hold on.

Summary of the poll, which can be found at:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=180759

quote:

Lira: Let's see. Some Spaniards are saying that they want the Spanish forum to be place in Europe. As it's not possible to create a new forum, we could just move this one. And, I will support the change if: 1) There are more than 15 Spaniards voting for the change 2) The users from hispanic-america accept it It's not possible to create a new forum: therefore, if the Spaniards want this forum to be moved to the European section than they've got to have the minimum amount of users and the support from those who live in America. Fair, right? You've got 15 days to decide and I won't vote as I'm not Spanish nor I'm in Spanish speaking America

quote:

UnBracKo: Lira, you're a good mod! It's a very arbitrary decision and objective, as I had expected I'm pro-Europe and I voted "yes". My opinion is that the forum was created for Spanish speakers, right? But I also believe that Spain (because of it's importance as a country, Ibiza, and the good clubber scene it's got...) should have its own forum, and in Europe. The problem is that there are no active users and you can't create it yet, but if you can move it to Europe, it's a start. As for the spanish speaker that aren't in spain please understand that this forum should be in Euopre, simply it's a matter of roots and comprehension. If you think hard enough, certainly your great grandparents, grandparents, parents... lived in Spain (Europe) and therefore you've got a link (bond?) to Europe. Also this forum should keep being multicultural and that all spanish speakers post. peace

quote:

shockwavedj: the truth is I'm a bit confused about it. I'm certain that it's a bit frustrating for the Spaniards to post "outside Europe", when even Isreal is considered European. Maybe the reason why there aren't more Spaniards posting is because, when they look for Europe, they can't find "Spain". On the other hand, I think we shouldn't support "segregation". Tranceaddict shouldn't be a forum with small community where you talk about the parties of your neighbourhood, but the opposite. (...)

I've got guests now, I'll translate the rest as soon as possible. If there's anyone who could help me translate, I'd appreciate

Thank you Lira but I do not believe that we have a solution in which all the Spanish, Portuguese and American users, we are satisfied given the conditions of the managers of TA's forum..

maaz, you do have far too much time on your hands mate

quote:

Originally posted by Luke Terry maaz, you do have far too much time on your hands mate

It's called "the wonders of typing with one hand while you eat your tea with the other"

Guests are still here so...

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Summary of the poll, which can be found at: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=180759 I've got guests now, I'll translate the rest as soon as possible. If there's anyone who could help me translate, I'd appreciate

2nd PART:

quote:

Syms�niQuA Personnally I think that's so easy. Firstly we are not discriminating anybody this has to be clear but more clear is that Spain is in Europe (if someone thinks Israel is in Europe, please look your atlas... :P ) although isn't a very active forum should be in the European section: Since this forum exists put it where it has to be, in his place. It's only a movement and like the others have said the ppl who post here, should be posting but if it's possible in the European scene.

quote:

UnBracKo: What I was saying... this french guy was searching the TA Spain forum for ask info about Costa Daurada... and finally he had to post the questions in the french forum. quote: quote: Originally posted by rafon3 Je pensais cr�er ce thread sur ta-spain.... mais �� n'existe pas I thought post this thread in TA-Spain... but it doesn't exist Donc je le mets ici, esp�rant que les frontaliers (ou les autres) pourront �clairer ma lanterne. So I put it in here (french forum) waiting that the frontiers (or the others) can explain my "lanterne" quote: Originally posted by webandyscott Ensuite, les ta espagnols se trouvent ici: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/....php?forumid=65 , �a on te le pardonne aussi . : . In fact the TA spaniards are in here: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/....php?forumid=65 , but it has his apologyze. quote: Originally posted by rafon3 D�sol� pour le ta-spain, je pensais que l'espagne �tait en europe c pour �� I'm sorry for TA-spaniards, I thought Spain was in Europe is for that... Complete thread here (in french) but I think it's clear http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=180275

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