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Minorities want race stats only when it benifits them
Keeping statistics based on race is a touchy subject when it comes to police. But when it comes to schools, many parents seem all for it.
The reason? They're worried children of ethnic minorities are being singled out for punishment under the province's Safe Schools Act.
The law was originally passed by the Tories to crack down on disciplinary problems in the province's schools. Under the rules, anything from swearing to fighting could lead to a suspension or even an expulsion.
But some parents believe educational authorities are brandishing those punishments with a double-edged sword.
The Toronto District School Board's Safe and Compassionate Schools Task Force spent 10 weeks hearing from concerned moms and dads about the issue, and has finished a report recommending the legislation be repealed, and that the number of penalties doled out be measured by which races seem to be bearing the brunt of them.
Currently, the official documents record only whether the offender is a boy or a girl.
It also wants the phrase "zero tolerance", a reference to how much leeway students get for their behaviour, completely eliminated.
Parents representing blacks, aboriginals and the Tamil community were among the most concerned that their kids were being singled out for punishment. They believe keeping the racial statistics will prove they were right.
May 11, 2004
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You cant have it both ways... you either ban race stats in all cases or you use them in all cases...
You cant just pick and choose
It's such a sensitive issue nowadays...kind of stupid really 
I work in a company (and i know there are many like that) that go out of their way to hire people of color or other minorities just to show how multicultural they are...no matter the skills...
it's been proven time and time again that biological races don't really "exist".. unfortunately people often still judge a book by its cover..
this is bad for many reasons. First and most obvious. This is outright racism. Not hiring a white guy because he is white is equally as bad as not hiring a "minority" because he's not white.
Second: You potentially end up with substandard workers because race has absolutely nothing to do with the job you can do.
Third: the backlash of this is that it damges the reputation of minorities that do get the job based on merit alone because everyone will just assume that they are a token employee. This attitude is not right either but its an unfortunate result of porrly thought out policy.
the point of employment equity is to have the population of the workplace reflect the population of the country. Canada as a whole has a workforce that is 13% minority. Therefore in every office, in every oppertunity, there should be a representative amount of 13% that is a minority.
I understand people who are white, saying how this is basically backwards racism, however the truth of the matter is, is that there STILL is no equity, there's just a need to equalize the 13%.
equality is a wonderful idea. Im not against it. So why not put money into educating minorities and making it easier for immigrants to use their foreign degrees or upgrade them instead of hiring substandard workers based on race?
I think employment equity programs are the lazy way out. The only reason white people are still in higher positions is because we have been here longer. Minorities only started coming here en masse 25 years ago. You cant expect everything to instantly equal out.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 equality is a wonderful idea. Im not against it. So why not put money into educating minorities and making it easier for immigrants to use their foreign degrees or upgrade them instead of hiring substandard workers based on race? I think employment equity programs are the lazy way out. The only reason white people are still in higher positions is because we have been here longer. Minorities only started coming here en masse 25 years ago. You cant expect everything to instantly equal out. |
i wouldnt call it racism. Canada is the least racist country on the planet. The problem is how the system handles foreign degrees. This isnt racism its just job protectionism.
don't worry .. things are getting better in Markham and RH ..
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 i wouldnt call it racism. Canada is the least racist country on the planet. The problem is how the system handles foreign degrees. This isnt racism its just job protectionism. |
p.s all the managers are at a managers meeting today (all day!) here at work, talk about slacking off!!
i think people sometimes mistake or assume descrimination with stupid policies. The way it is set up now has nothing to do with race or skin colour when it comes to professional degrees from other countries. It has more to do with the teacher's and doctor's colleges wanting to protect unionized employees from a flood of new competition.
However, hiring based on qoutas is completely wrong and IS descrimination in its purest form. There is no way around that one.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 ... So why not put money into educating minorities and making it easier for immigrants to use their foreign degrees or upgrade them instead of hiring substandard workers based on race? |
I think that in Canada there is a lot of racism. For a lot of people it's just boiling under their skin, but because everyone tells them here that "everyone lives happy together" they are not showing it. The problem is that the image of everyone living happy together is not correct and many people are completely ignoring the issue and only pretending to see the "rosey" part of it.
I just have a feeling that sooner or later this "boiling" will boil over and we'll be seeing a lot more hate crimes and racial problems (not just between white and whatever, but between other races as well). Just my opinion -- came after that post about communities not blending together.
*EDIT*
Canada has also rediculous immigration rules...no wonder US is pissed at Canada...the immigration laws just make no sense. It's basically saying - Smart educated people from developed nations, wait in line and maybe if youre lucky and pass all the test we'll take you...uneducated people from the third world that don't have much to offer - please come in! Unfortunately I've witnessed that with my own eyes too many times
| quote: |
| Originally posted by disko-kandi that's the exactly point! ... on the same token of discrimination - what about equal pay for women who have the same educational qualifications and skills as men? |
I dont buy these stats that women make less than men. The problem is that they compare ALL women and ALL men. You cant compare a woman who cleans floors to a guy who works in an office. Also you cant account for the many home makers that are out there as well.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 I dont buy these stats that women make less than men. The problem is that they compare ALL women and ALL men. You cant compare a woman who cleans floors to a guy who works in an office. Also you cant account for the many home makers that are out there as well. |
Fuck it let's just wait for 300 years to pass and we'll all be a shade of beige. 
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| Originally posted by Mako Fuck it let's just wait for 300 years to pass and we'll all be a shade of beige. |
so many people are giving the typical uneducated opinions that everyone gives in this debate...read some research. Employment equity is not about hiring substandard workers...and women ARE still paid, on average, less than male counterparts in similar positions. Are some programs improperly implemented? Sure. It doesn't make the philosophy behind it invalid. The programs are also aimed at attracting people to fields to which they normally would not apply. Women and minorities make competent police officers, but 20 years ago, how many were applying, nevermind being admitted? It's to our benefit to have a police force that's at least remotely representative of the community it polices, no?
Keep in mind one of the inherent limitations of our system of government too. Whoever is in power needs to see results within their term, otherwise they risk not being around after the next election. The same is true for management in many companies. People, or constituents, want to see results NOW. Employment equity is admittedly a quick (or quicker, at least) fix to a systemic problem...but who's going to implement something that will result in change 10, 20 or 30 years from now? They won't be around the reap any of the benefits...it's sad, but true.
Employement equity is better than what the status quo was when they began...not a flawless solution...but it's progress. Companies are not EXCLUSIVELY hiring minorities...ie. if you're good, you'll chances of getting a job in your field are not significantly reduced because of employment equity programs...
^^^ Well that's very true and I agree...however I don't see a justification for hiring about half the people I work with (seriously!) Most of them don't even speak english or communicate at all and all we learn in school is how communication skills are important...so there's always a dilema about this!
The one statement i am about to make almost entirly erases any arguement that can be given for equity programs.
applications for jobs thats state "ONLY MINORITIES NEED APPLY" is no different than fountains and enterances in 1950's Alabama that said "WHITES ONLY"
To say that it id different is also racist because you are applying different standards to different people based on their race. This is the basic definition of the word itself.
You admit yourself that this is a quick fix and its purely political. Double standards is not the politics that we should be playing. There is NO excuse for ANY racist policies in this country.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Chinaman Hey, that guy on that CBC comedy special last week said that!!! Absolutely hilarious guy I might add... His "Chinglish" was superb... As a Chinese guy, I can't even come that close to mimicking our brand of Engwishy-ahhh! |
My ECO prof spent a whole lecture on pay equity. The moral of his lecture was that there are many factors in surveys that are unaccounted for.
For example.. the whole 'women make $.76 for every dollar men make' is true.. but actually doesnt take into account the fact that there are more women who work part-time.. There are many other factors such as the risk of pregnancy by women.. as much as someone would call it gender discrimination.. it IS a legitimate concern for higher positions where showing up to work each and every day is important because it is very costly to find someone else to do your job when you are on maternity leave.. these are just a few of the factors that he listed.. there are sites on the internet that actually have a very methodical and proof-based analyses which account for pay differences between ethnic groups and genders..
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