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-- Explaining CPU & Ram in Audio terms to Computer Techs.

Explaining CPU & Ram in Audio terms to Computer Techs.

Can someone help me try and articulate myself better when it comes to CPU and it's relation to 100% software based audio production.. and the same thing for Ram...

I have a 2.4ghz pentium prosessor and 1.5 gigs of ram. When I try and tell the computer techs that this isn't very much they immediately assume that my computer is broken. Because I've mentioned that my CPU gets eaten up very quickly. But they don't understand how vicious software synthesizers are like z3ta 1.4 and using 2 times over sampling.. and having 15 to 20 tracks of softsynths running at once with each track using anywhere from 4 to 8 tracks of Logic Audios built in FX.. IE: Platium Reverb, Chorus, Fat EQ etc etc. And a whack of software synths installed only adds to the problem as well..

Anyways, I was trying to ask about CPU's on a computer tech forum.. And they're trying to figure out which part of my computer is broken lol.. My computer is fine, I could purchase everything brand new tomorrow and I will still be experiencing the same problems as far as CPU demand is concerned.. Until I purchase a faster processor and add more Ram to my set up as long as I try to run this many tasks at once it will always overload. Yes I know that I can bounce my stuff to wav files.. But that's the whole reason I want a faster CPU and more Ram so that my workflow will always be optimized.

Can anyone try and explain this so that a computer technician can understand the amount of processes taking place when it comes to audio production with the tools I've mentioned... Lots of software synths... Lots of FX.. Lots of instances of software synths.. etc etc. Anwyays, I mentioned everything in the second paragraph.

Thanks.

Like this,

"See, the programs/processes I run use huge amounts of CPU and RAM.
And the more quality I want the more CPU/RAM gets used."

?

I'm not exactly sure what the point of this thread is.
BUT if you don't have enough processing power build an additional box and run fx teleport, or maybe buy yourself a powercore and use the virus powercore.
Otherwise you could afford to upgrade your processor.

And if you are trying to explain to "them", just tell them that using virtual instruments takes quite a bit of CPU horsepower.. they will understand.

es

Upgrading processor & RAM is much cheaper than getting a Powercore and Virus Powercore..
Though upgrading the procesessor isn't that effective than getting the Powercore.


EDIT: If here is anyone who already didn't knew this, please raise your right hand.

Uhh...just tell them you run very system-intensive apps, like graphical rendering, but for audio.

if they understood me than I wouldn't be here asking for help... and strangely enough, some of them work with video. But still try and tell me to take my computer in to have it fixed. So they clearly don't understand how demanding audio is when softsynths are involved.

They say things like "Getting a faster CPU won't fix my problem"


I was hoping that someone could explain the technical aspects of CPU and why these programs push it to 100% so quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantax They say things like "Getting a faster CPU won't fix my problem"

And they're right.

If you get a faster CPU, then all you're going to do is run another instance of z3ta and munch up your CPU anyway. The trick is not necesarily getting a faster computer but learning how to produce within the limits of the computer.

quote:

Originally posted by Thunder5 And they're right.

Thank you for elaborating.

I obviously want to understand why things like that are being said. What is the point of having a faster processor then? How are they right?

quote:

Originally posted by hey cheggy If you get a faster CPU, then all you're going to do is run another instance of z3ta and munch up your CPU anyway. The trick is not necesarily getting a faster computer but learning how to produce within the limits of the computer.

No I'm not. I already work with 15 to 20 audio tracks at the moment. And if I want to open up 21 tracks on a faster computer... Than I'm learning how to produce within the limits of that set up. There isn't anything wrong with wanting more cpu and more ram.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantax Thank you for elaborating. I obviously want to understand why things like that are being said. What is the point of having a faster processor then? How are they right?

Having a fast processor is good, but due the limitations in current processors, they don't do a real-time multithreading though it looks like the processes are run all at the same time, when they actually are run right after each other.

EG.
Part of process1 is run now, right after it part of process2 is run, and then again a part of process1 and so on...

So the gained processor "strength" goes into making it look like the processes are run simultaneously. But getting a separate card like Powercore or what soever to run certain effects or so, easens the load to the processor and therefore allows more processing power to be used to your softsynths..

Hope I didn't lost you with this.

quote:

Originally posted by Thunder5 Having a fast processor is good, but due the limitations in current processors, they don't do a real-time multithreading though it looks like the processes are run all at the same time, when they actually are run right after each other. EG. Part of process1 is run now, right after it part of process2 is run, and then again a part of process1 and so on... So the gained processor "strength" goes into making it look like the processes are run simultaneously. But getting a separate card like Powercore or what soever to run certain effects or so, easens the load to the processor and therefore allows more processing power to be used to your softsynths.. Hope I didn't lost you with this.

Yeah that's pretty much it, it's one of the reasons fx teleport is so powerful. It's like true multithreading.

There's a bit of info you're missing.

I ask... is this an Apple or PC??

until you answer that back....

The speed of your front side bus (FSB) is also very crucial to how fast your computer pushes files and sounds.
COnsidering your processor is a fine clock speed for producing audio via software and MIDI, I'd say your ram could be a bit more... maybe 2 GB of RAM or more. Logic is a heavy app, plain and simple.

Next.. your hard-drive(s). If your hard drives are slower than 7200RPM, you're guaranteed audio latency. anything that fast or faster, such as SCSI is the best way to go. You should also have 2 hard drives (NOT 2 Partitions on the same drive) ... where one is for all apps and OS data, and the other is for AUDIO/MIDI only.

THe last thing I can think of, is the audio driver you're using, and waht sound card you're running it with. This will vary highly if you have a bad combo. ASIO, Core Audio, DAE, are all great audio drivers, and any consumer-level audio driver just won't cut it.

I guess you need to explain that you're pushing large files, and have a ton of processing and I/O going on all at once. The next best way to compare it is with video or 3D rendering. Those apps are very processor intensive, but not hard-drive intensive at the same time, like audio production is.

I understand you perfectly. But this isn't about getting a powercore.. It's about my set up now. and to say that a faster processor won't make things better can't be right. It WILL fix a bunch of my problems.

I remember my computer from the early 90's when it was a speed 66 lol. If I was producing music on that and softsynths were around back then... I'm pretty sure that my 2.4 ghz processor woulda helped me.. just a bit :/ a 4ghz processor will make production life so much easier than my 2.4. To say that it won't is a lie.

SgtFoo - 7200 rpm HD ( i don't have dual drives, but i should look into it).. PC Not Mac. Delta 44 soundcard ASIO drivers.

The video guys are trying to tell me to take my computer to get it fixed. And then they say "we're just trying to save you money from buying CPU's" but having my computer that works perfectly fine sent into the shop to get fixed isn't wasting money apparently lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Phantax a 4ghz processor will make production life so much easier than my 2.4. To say that it won't is a lie.

Well it might but your system might have some other bottleneck(s). Like slow hard disk drives, though that is in case if you use a lot of samples or prerecorded tracks, having 8MB cache on a 7200RPM (P-ATA)disk will do pretty well, but S-ATA disks would be better. Not to mention SCSI, but they're pretty expensive compared to S-ATA disks.

And about the powercore, it was just an example about multithreading.

SgtFoo brought up some good points.

buy a separate used computer (1 ghz?) and use it for the sole purpose of running some of the softsynths. I believe there is a program that allows you to use another computer to share the processing load by networking the 2 computers together... Can't find it... someone want to post the link?

so you basically want to run everything real time? I would imagine no (Desktop) system currently could do that, regardless of having top end CPU, max memory, best HDD etc...

What your suffering from is twofold imo:

1) You want software that is highley optimised for your specific CPU / sys config, which sadly no general off the shelf software will ever be. They have to cater for every system & a minimum system. Sloppy coding and general lack of dedicated resources mean software will not outperform dedicated hardware.

2) Your running specific things that kill CPU - huge pads, big real time delays / reverbs / other signal processing all vie for the CPU. As the CPU can only process one instruction at a time, the others buffer up delaying the CPU even if the CPU isn't fully utilising whilst its doing its current calculation. Granted all that happens at X thousand times per second, but when you consider running a big external studio through your software sequencer, your at the advandtage that each synth / instrument runs the process on a seperate dedicated CPU.

Yes it sucks that you cant run everything real time, but as you already said thats what offline bouncing is for. Maybe bounce half the track your happy with and work on the next sections using a couple of VSTis and you half completed wave at the same time. Either that or wait a few more years till real time complete song creation is a reality.

Oh... lastly, dont worry so much about your CPU/Memory/Latency etc etc etc - concentrate on making music. Some of the best tunes are created on a p.o.s laptop on a beach somewhere. If the ideas good, the hardware used isn't so important!

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