TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Montreal
-- R.I.P. Nick Berg
Pages (2): [1] 2 »
R.I.P. Nick Berg
Man just saw the video...its so sad..
i funken almost puked...
shame on you people that are in favor of WAR ALL OVER THE WORLD
funk the war
PZ everyone
im not on anybodys side... sad things are commited on both american and iraki side...
its simply discosting how people act sometimes
by the way for those who dont know his name...its the guy they funken killed and choped his head off...
HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO A HUMAN..... OMFG...especially a guy thats there to help reconstruct the fuckin country....not even a soldier...WTF
Yeah, vraiment degoutant - just like les prisoniers iraqiens - putain de guerres....
Anyway, let's just hope things get better 4 both sides cuz these last months have been horrible....
and the next few months wont be happy to watch man
USA aint got anything to win from this war....GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE...and FAST funk
| quote: |
| Originally posted by FunKenLouis by the way for those who dont know his name...its the guy they funken killed and choped his head off... HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO A HUMAN..... OMFG...especially a guy thats there to help reconstruct the fuckin country....not even a soldier...WTF |
GLOBE AND MAIL
Abu Ghraib: the rule, not the exception
Americans are no novices to inflicting pain and humiliation, says torture expert MILES SCHUMAN. U.S.-sanctioned torment has a long and diverse pedigree
By MILES SCHUMAN
Friday, May. 14, 2004
The International Committee of the Red Cross has revealed over the past days that the gross human-rights abuses of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison were not confined to a few soldiers. Indeed, it appears they were well-known to U.S. government and military officials while they occurred. As a physician who has worked with many survivors of torture in Canada -- and has lived in Guatemala, Haiti and Mexico, working with survivors of state-sponsored violence -- the images of the detainees in Abu Ghraib represent a hauntingly familiar pattern of abuse.
The black hood covering the faces of naked prisoners in Abu Ghraib was known as la capuchi in Guatemalan and Salvadoran torture chambers. The metal bed frame to which the naked and hooded detainee was bound in a crucifix position at Abu Ghraib was la cama for a former Chilean patient who survived the U.S.-installed regime of General Augusto Pinochet. In her case, electrodes were attached to her arms, legs and genitalia, just as they were attached to the Iraqi detainee poised on a box, threatened with electrocution if he fell off. The Iraqi man bound naked on the ground with a leash attached to his neck, held by a smiling young American recruit reminds me of the son of peasant organizers who recounted his agonizing torture at the hands of the tonton macoutes, U.S.-backed Jean-Claude (Baby Doc) Duvalier's right-hand thugs, in Port-au-Prince, in 1984.
The very act of photographing those tortured in Abu Ghraib to humiliate and silence parallels the experience of an American missionary, Sister Diana Ortiz, who was tortured in Guatemala in 1989. Before the U.S. Congressional Human Rights Caucus, she reported: "My hand was burned over 100 times with cigarettes. I was gang raped repeatedly. . . . My last few minutes in detention, I met Alejandro, whom the torturers referred to as their boss. He was tall and fair-skinned and spoke halting Spanish, with a thick American accent. His English was American, flawless, unaccented. When I asked him if he was American, his answer was evasive: 'Why do you want to know?' He reminded me that my torturers had made videotapes and taken photos of the parts of the torture I was most ashamed of. He said if I didn't forgive my torturers, he would have no choice but to release those photos and tapes to the press [Congressional Human Rights Caucus Briefing on Torture, June 25, 1988]."
The same sadistic choreography has taken place at the U.S. military base at Bagram in Afghanistan, where named witnesses informed The New York Times that detainees were stripped and hooded "with their arms raised and chained to the ceiling, their feet shackled."
This infernal landscape illustrates methods of torture consistent with U.S. military-intelligence teaching manuals. One example from the manuals produced by the U.S. Army's School of the Americas and declassified by the U.S. government, advises that in order to forcibly recruit spies, "The counterintelligence agent could cause the arrest of the employees' parents, imprison the employee, or give him a beating as part of the placement plan." It suggests that many other techniques could be used, limited only by the agent's imagination.
A 1986 report by the El Salvador Human Rights Commission, founded by Archbishop Oscar Romero, and smuggled out of the infamous Mariona Prison in San Salvador, refers to 40 kinds of torture inflicted on political prisoners, and the presence of Americans as supervisors. Graduates of the School of the Americas include military officers and leaders implicated in torture and mass murder in Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina and Haiti, among other Latin American countries.
Two CIA manuals obtained by The Baltimore Sun in 1997, have specific relevance to the torture methods used on prisoners at Abu Ghraib. One manual written by the CIA in 1963, titled Kubark Counter-Intelligence Interrogation, states: "Interrogations conducted under compulsion or duress are especially likely to involve illegality. . . . Therefore, prior approval at the higher level must be obtained for the interrogation of any source against his will under any of the following circumstances: If bodily harm is inflicted; if medical, chemical or electric methods or materials are used to induce acquiescence."
Such methods could not have been far from the thoughts of those who applied electric wires to the Iraqi detainee pictured at Abu Ghraib. In his case, there was reportedly no potential current to cause shock. But as aptly noted by The Guardian in this connection, the CIA's 1983 Human Resource Exploitation Manual, used in Honduras, advises: "The threat of coercion usually weakens or destroys resistance more effectively than coercion itself. The threat to inflict pain triggers fears more damaging than the immediate sensation of pain."
The types of torture practised by individuals representing the U.S. government or their surrogates have varied slightly from place to place over time, depending on the particular social, cultural or religious norms that need to be subverted, in order to inflict the greatest pain and humiliation.
This subversion often goes hand in hand with gender-based violence. Examples include the rape of nuns such as Diana Ortiz by, and under the supervision of, male torturers, and the sexual assault of Muslim men by, and under the supervision of, enlisted women.
The ultimate purpose of torture, however, is always the same. It is not the extraction of information, which is notoriously unreliable under such conditions.
It is, rather, the destruction of one's voice and identity, the transformation of a human into an object (thus the hood over the face), like the Orwellian deconstruction of thousands of former lives into "collateral damage," or the "rendering" of individuals to another country for so-called interrogation.
From my experience as a physician, the Abu Ghraib images are not an exception to the rules. They represent the rules, I believe, by which the U.S. government and military exercise power over a non-servile population to optimize the economic and political interests of an elite few in the U.S. and abroad. What is not the norm, what is exceptional, is the graphic revelation to the world of these horrors. In his book A Miracle, A Universe, New Yorker writer Lawrence Weschler crystallizes the torturer's message to the tortured: "Scream. Scream as much as you like. It doesn't matter. No one is listening. No one will ever hear you. No one will ever know." The torturer, like the state sponsoring him, depends on the obscurity of the victim and silence of witnesses to continue his crimes.
We are all witnesses now.
********************************************************************
Miles Schuman, a family physician in the Kivalliq region of Nunavut, counselled refugees, and documented torture for the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture and the Clinique Sant� Accueil in Guatemala, Haiti, Mexico, and in Cambodian refugee camps in Thailand.
what people seem to ignore, is that one of the main exports of the Americans are their torture methods!
Pentagon specialists travel worldwide to teach their methods to rogue and shady countries...
What I don't understand is why take pictures????
Why the hell did the Americans take pictures of all that shit...obviously it's illegal, obviously it's abuse, obviously it's better that noone knows about it...SO WHY TAKE PICTURES?????? 
I know the terrorosits do the videos and pictures to "show the world" sort of speak....but they are always masked and stuff...but wtf was the purpose of the pics the Americans took???
*EDIT*
By the way I agree that it's all sick and disgusting...another reason why the cut the guy's head off is because he is jewish and had an israeli stamp in his passport...it's like double pleasure for them...he's both american and has ties to israel...The Al Qaeda definitely caught themselves a happy day there
| quote: |
| Originally posted by starsearcher What I don't understand is why take pictures???? Why the hell did the Americans take pictures of all that shit...obviously it's illegal, obviously it's abuse, obviously it's better that noone knows about it...SO WHY TAKE PICTURES?????? I know the terrorosits do the videos and pictures to "show the world" sort of speak....but they are always masked and stuff...but wtf was the purpose of the pics the Americans took??? |
What I say is:
Death to those guys who chopped Berg's head off!
Death to those fucking American bastards that did such things in the prison!
The only thing i got to say is
EYE FOR AN EYE !
We should chop the head off of the guys that did that to Nick berg
AND
We shoulc do EVERYTHING the marines did to de prisoners !
I think it would teach them a something ... not sure what but still
KrinKer
bravo,
eye for an eye is the worst thing to do.
la loi du tallion n'as jamais fonctionner...
| quote: |
| What I say is: Death to those guys who chopped Berg's head off! Death to those fucking American bastards that did such things in the prison! |
| quote: |
| bravo, eye for an eye is the worst thing to do. |
everyone should just fuck off and leave the irak ppl alone, too bad the states are a super power with a super idiot president who enjoys starting problem....if the irakis enjoy killing themselves or wtv the fuck these arab nations enjoy doing, its their business and the usa and whoever else shouldent get involved....
I don't usually think eye for an eye is a good thing but in this case wich is EXTREME I think It might teach a lesson to some people.
What do you propose Malek??
Why wouldn't this be good?
Don't you think these people have to be judged and get what they deserve?
C'est vrai voyont dont
On est bin mieux de rester crois� a attendre que les super �tats unis sauve le monde !!
I said bomb the whole
We'll get rid of everything there
KrinKer
bomber quoi Krinker...Bomber l'Irak??????
( j'en connais un avec qui tu t'entendrais ben toi...
)
brrrrron...........
ben... ces personnes la doivent etre emmener devant une cour, trait� devant la justice, subir un proc�s et �tre punis s'ils sont coupables selons les lois du pays.
je vois pas comment c'est compliqu�.
�coutez, hier un petit garcon s'est fait �craser par un chauffard saoul... pauvre petit, je trouve que le crime est aussi audieux (moins publicis� par contre).
ca veux tu dire qu'on doit pendre sur la place publique le chauffard ivre? non, il a le droit � un proc�s juste et �quitable , et il est innocent jusqu'� preuve du contraire comme dans tout pays civilis�.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by malek ben... ces personnes la doivent etre emmener devant une cour, trait� devant la justice, subir un proc�s et �tre punis s'ils sont coupables selons les lois du pays. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by FunKenLouis processus quie prend des ann�es...qui ramasse un centi�me des coupables et laisse le reste se sauver sans rien donner pour leur crime |
dillema
fighting human rights violations with human rights violations does not resolve anything - if not make things worse! i understand these urges ... but it would make us no different!
i feel sick ... to my heart!
Ughhh I wish I would have never read this and watched the video cause it really pissed me off that these things happen. This is just fukin sick and I dont wish any of these bad things to either sides. I admit that after I watched the video I was pissed and I wanted to kill them all and I sort of still do in a way but it wont solve anything just make things worse.
i don't wanna watch the video , i'm fucking sensitive !
today on french TV they said there are ties with berg and zakaria moussaoui (the moroccan dude hold in the states that was caught a few days before 911) , they were friends and zakaria used to come to berg's house and use the computer ...
that's why the americans asked the iraki police to hold him and he couldn't catch his flight , they were suspecting he was there to do something shady. and when he missed his flight you know the rest of the story ...
la violence engendre la violence
To answer the "why did they have to take pictures" question:
--this is what i heard on TV, nothin from me--
1st thing: I heard once that the actual action of takin pix was some sort of torture - they threatened the prisoners with the pix by telling them things like: "we will show those pictures to your family, friends and neighbours." Of course, you wouldnt want that, and it made prisoners talk.
2nd thing: I once read somewhere that it started out with a few pictures and that it then turned into a competition between Americans - the more pictures you had and the "crueler" they are, the better you are. They also mentioned something about settin the pictures as laptop desktop wallpapers to show them to prisoners and sometimes printing them on walls around the prison.
Sick reasons, sick actions and wotever...Kinda sick how the pictures were taken but in a way am "happy" - it's nice to see the truth sometimes eventhough a lot of ppl already knew that the americans were experts at disturbing prisoners.
The video is sick and we all know that - but try to put urself in one of those guys' place...not sayin they had the right to behead berg, but I dont think that puttin them (them = the american soldiers in charge of the tortures) in court is sufficient for them...
Anyway, sick sick sick things - i wanna live with aliens - they're good and friendly...
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.