Computer DJing sucks! - TranceAddict Forums

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Posted by Morbius on Jan-17-2001 20:14:

Ok, I used to be a supporter of programs like Virtual Turntables and think "who needs vinyl when you can just do it from mp3s?!" But the more I think about it, the more I realize that DJing from mp3s can't be done professionally in its current state. There's a craplod of reasons for that :P

1) Music quality.... a 128 kbit mp3 sounds relatively crappy on a good sound system (ie. you can definitely tell it isn't as high quality as a cd on my system which cost ~$1000)

2) Controls... some things just cant be done well with a mouse and keyboard. Like changing the pitch control while slowing down the record while beatmatching. Or switching the bass over smoothly between 2 tracks.

3) Equalization... in addition to the problem I mentioned before about switching the bass over to the new track when mixing, it also takes a couple seconds for the changes to take effect.... which needless to say isn't that great

4) Skipping... every once in a while VTT does skip even though I have a (relatively) fast computer :P
Which is VERY bad when 2 tracks are playing at the same time

5) Finding the beat.... a real pain in the ass, cuz its a hell of alot easier to just move the vinyl back and forth instead of playing, rewinding, moving the cue point.... repeat :P

I'm not saying that mp3 DJing is completely crap... it might be ok for a small house party or whatever... but I'm sure if you sat down even paul van dyk in front of a computer and gave him ages to practice he wouldn't be able to DJ nearly as well on a computer as on turntables....

Anyone agree? Disagree? Anyone care at all?
and finally... are there any programs that actually address most/all of these issues?

Posted by tu_face on Jan-17-2001 21:17:

sorry to disagree...

I got software thats 1200sl's in software form... granted u cant do 3 things at once, but u can move thru the track like on turntables, and when the rare occurance of a skip is encountered it compensates the other tune so its still in tempo. Also anything u do is instantaneous so there is no delay when u cahnge volume/pitch or something. And what u sed about quality, i never use 128 bit anyway

Still u cant beat using proper equiptment!

peace

Posted by skywarp on Jan-17-2001 21:18:

You speak the truth ... hehe ... no matter what everybody says, MP3 mixing (or any other medium for that matter) won't replace the 1200s for a long long time. There is just some things you can't do digitally and DJing is one of them.
Now, some of the programs aren't all that bad if you are interested in spinning and want to learn the basics without spending $1500+ on equipment and vinyl, but for any kind of public performance MP3 is not a viable option.

Posted by cyberia on Jan-17-2001 21:20:

I agree mostly,and yes the 12" is also more authentique,but it's true that you can more easily get the bass right with vinyl and you can do two handlings at the same time,like mixing and adjusting your sound at the same time,and your comp.has to take time to react no mather what processor you have!
PVD couldn't arange a set like he does with vinyl,that's a fact,but to not break the computermixing completely down,I have made some mixes and I had some good reactions on it,so,it doesn't sucks big time!

Posted by leshii on Jan-18-2001 00:15:

mixin'...

I've been using a VTT with external mixer and a couple of soundboards for a year. The program itself is the best of it's kind at my personal point of view. It's easy, it does not require too much system resources (I had a P166 32RAM that time) and so on. Well, if you use an external mixer, it makes the process easier a bit, but..when you need to adjust pitch, for example, or rotate the virtual "jog wheel" you'll have to use this freaky mouse anyway. That's what sucks about mixing those MP3z..

Generally this would suit for training your ear.

I use a couple of those Pioneer CDJ500II at work now, and I'm not sure I could mix on my PC again.
Handwork is the best.

I tried to use the turntables once, in the beginning of summer, but I did not manage with those. ) It will take a certain time to get used to them.

Wish you all luck.

Posted by Synder on Jan-18-2001 02:58:

"2) Controls... some things just cant be done well with a mouse and keyboard. Like changing the pitch control while slowing down the record while beatmatching. Or switching the bass over smoothly between 2 tracks.
"

there must be some mp3 mixing program which has midi control of the knobs.. I've been looking for one myself... then I can use the modulation wheel on my keyboard as a cross fader.. if I had more knobs .. well then..

note: computers still suck for mixing...

Posted by trancearmada on Jan-18-2001 03:23:

well what about BPM-Studio you can get an external mixer for it and I think that it's the best program for mixing mp3's by far.

Posted by Morbius on Jan-18-2001 06:36:

Thanks for your input everyone.... tu_face, are you referring to Digital 1200's? If so it sounds interesting and I might be forced to try it out
And I stated that mp3s sound bad in 128 kbit because often you can't find a rare track encoded any better than that. Of course, you could go out and buy the vinyl and then rip it to your computer.... but that would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?
And I'm not knocking computers for un-live mixing (Cooledit, acid, sound forge, etc) I have made a number of mixes in acid, and IMHO they are quite good... but I couldn't come close to doing the same thing live on my pooter

Posted by Avatar on Jan-18-2001 07:11:

I use BPM-Studio and it is very cool. In fact, beat matching seems too easy at times. There is a button that will set the other track to a near perfect pitch to match your first track. I think the biggest problem so far with mixing MP3 though is the sound level in which they are recorded. Its rediculous trying to match sound levels. Some people have ripped music too softly and others its too hard. It gets very frustrating trying to get a proper volume mix. Its certainly saves a lot of money though so you can't go wrong there....

Posted by Antti on Jan-18-2001 21:20:

Yeah I agree with you Morbius.

There's no way you can match the beats in MP3 mixing programs because you can't scratch your screen. Moving the vinyl is much better way to do this.
The EQ thing is true too. Try to control 2 EQs at the same time with your mouse!

However if you don't mind about those little drawbacks in MP3 mixing and if you're not so seriously into mixing then an MP3 program might be a good idea cause it's a LOT cheaper than a couple of turntables & mixer. (Esp. good ones)
I've said this before, but my opinion really is that if you want to do better mixing with your PC try Sonic Foundry's professional products like Soundforge and Acid Pro. It may take some practice to learn how to use them well but trust me, it works much better! However you can't mix in real-time, so it's more like studio mixing.

Posted by Avatar on Jan-18-2001 23:57:

Why would one want to mix using soundforge or Acid? You can't do any real time mixing with those programs. Its not DJ software its audio editing...BPM Studio is made for the DJ who wants to mix real time...You can learn to play a two hour set with BPM Studio w/o stopping...

Posted by Antti on Jan-19-2001 01:32:

That's true. I didn't mean to put all the real time computer mixing programs completely down. If I mix MP3s I rather use sound editing software cause if I would mix MP3s in real time it would only sound crappy. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions and know which programs they like to use.

Antti

Posted by tu_face on Jan-19-2001 11:34:

D1200sl's

Yeah im on about digital 1200 sl's... its made by visiosonic and the full title of the prog (for search purposes) is PCDJ Phat Digital 1200sl. Just stick visiosonic thru a search engine and download the demo, ill email ya the crack or somethin.

The full D1200sl system (inc all hardware plug-ins which costs about �3000 is used as well as TT's in cream)

Peace

Posted by trancearmada on Jan-19-2001 18:40:

Hmm this is like my second time posting this, but can some one send me the freaking crack for the PCDJ Phat Digital 1200sl????

[email protected]

i have a couple cracks but none of them work!

Posted by Avatar on Jan-19-2001 22:09:

I can't believe PCDJ Phat Digital 1200sl is only 30 bucks online. BPM-Studio is only a few hundred up to a 1000 bucks depending on the version you get. However, BPM seems to have a lot more functionality to it than PCDJ... Does anyone have the patch Upgrade for BPM 3.4. I only have version 3.0

Posted by QRIUS1 on Jan-20-2001 06:18:

MP3 DJing is

Wow, leshii, you are going through a very similar experience as I am. I think it's a great tool to train your ears and give you an introduction to DJing and its basic concepts. That's what it did for me. It taught me the basics and killed any doubts about later investing in 'real' equipment (CDJ-500II/DJM-500, and recently a pair of 1200s). It also satisfied my patience while savin' up those pennies. However, I must admit it's still very limited and you won't go far, even with an external mixer and setup may be a pain in the ars. I too could never go back to MP3 DJing... but it helped me get to where I am today.

Posted by DJTJ on Jan-27-2001 17:05:

OK, mp3 mixing is never gonna be as good as vinyl, but if you haven't got the $$$ (i.e. me) then mp3's are the only option. However, if you're gonna do it, do it right. Personally, i want to "upgrade" to vinyl when i can get enough cash, so I currently use VTT. This is a great program, as it allows you to do pretty much anything you can do with decks, *including* scratching! OK, so you can't do three things at once, but you can't beat it for training your ear. I had a go on a friends decks after using VTT for about a year, and I took to it like a clich�d duck to water. I'm not saying I was PvD or anything, but I was a damn sight better than my other friend who had never tried anything like it before. He couldn't even work out how to use the crossfader!
So mp3 mixing has its place, that place is just not in clubs.

I think I've finished rambling now! :P

--
DJTJ

Posted by Ckerr812 on Jan-30-2001 00:06:

I didn't really read every message here because I am reallly lazy, but........ I will give my opinion, it's short and it's sweet

Computer DJing is for people who can't afford to buy Turntables and a mixer, amp, apeakers...it add's up after awhile

Posted by dj_qub on Jan-31-2001 01:14:

i have a program 4 u

Sure 1200sl does alot of things but Tacticle (a small pc program) can play 1 or 2 wav or mp3 files and u can mix, change pitch and everything with it. its easy to control plus theres another thing for the headphones but i dont know how to use it. anyway that program is very good i mean it cuz i using it. you can download the demo at http://www.technomusic.com

peace
dj qub

Posted by Darkevil on Feb-11-2001 02:02:

http://www.atomixmp3.com is all i got to say.., i am not a 100% for MP3 mixing.. but if i wanted to make a quick mix with my favourite trance tracks.. and i don't own tables and the vinyls... then this program is the way to GO!.. check it out!

Posted by DJTJ on Feb-11-2001 14:52:

I reckon its pretty silly arguing over what program is the best - real turntables are always going to be better, mp3 mixing trails in second place.

If you have to do it, like me, cos you can't afford decks, then you just use the one that you're happiest with and like the feel of. For me, that's VTT, but then that's just me!

l8rs

--
DJTJ

Posted by DjCrAzY on Feb-12-2001 15:00:

I prefer BPM Studio but the only REAL way to use mp3s for mixing is to have your soundcard outs connected to a channel of your main mixing board of main system.This is just another source like each turntable,denon dual,MD,etc.As far as mixing programs as only source,thats quite lame in my opinion.I have a Denon Dual 2500 F so if I really wanna mix an mp3 the right way,I just burn the track(uncompressed wav format) to a cd and play it on the denon .That way I have pitch,bending,forward and reverse sampling(also pitchable) and Key controls.Not to mention a TRUE jog wheel and full access to all components of my setup via my mixing board .Truely a compliment to the 1200's,but just that,a compliment,NOT a REPLACEMENT. Peace.

Posted by DjCrAzY on Feb-12-2001 15:40:

In addition to my last post I forgot to mention That of course vinyl is of preference but some tracks I cant find on vinyl so thats where I am forced to also use other formats

Posted by Albert on Feb-13-2001 15:42:

Where can you find the demo of PCDJ 1200SL?
I can't find it anywhere!!! The crack a guess
is easier,
http://www.astalavista.box.sk is the perfect crack page!!

Peace!

Posted by DJ-AXI on Feb-19-2001 14:41:

Ok Morbius You got alot of points there

But I want to express some of my points which are positive.

Computer DJ'ing aint seruisly a bad idea.. For beginner's its a great jumpt start to DJ On Virtual DJ Turntables, WHen i first Started DJ'ing which was when I was 12 years old i used VTT and now im 17 it really helped me JUMP Start and it makes everything ahead much more easier.

But once your a professional DJ And no longer need PC DJing of course you will throw that program out of your mind and start getting into the real equipment. In other cases you would still use Computer DJ'ing for High Quality remixing.

Cheers.