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What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

Im just curious...

Have you been living under a rock for the past 4 years?

quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate Have you been living under a rock for the past 4 years?

Actually, the reason for my question is because I dont have a great opinion of bush. My knowledge of his "legacy" is limited because my main concerns/interests are in Canadian politics.

I was just wondering how the hell can bush have a somewhat high rating in the polls (based on my opinion of course)?

I guess my question should of been, for those who will vote for bush this election, what are the reasons.

Get it?

Well, to answer your first question (why he has a high approval rating), is because Americans are too stupid to see the real damage he's doing. He's been viewed as some gloriful figure due to this war, but nobody seems to realize it is a diversion from the problems on the homefront (education, environment, economy, etc.) I don't see any reason to vote for him, because it will just plunge America even further down the spiral of doom and four more years will be more than enough time to make mistakes that'll cost us our lifetimes to fix.

In a period of about 2-3 years, Bush has taken America from this:

http://www.september11news.com/InternationalImages.htm



To this:




Hong Kong

quote:

Children shout anti-US slogans as they gather with other protesters outside the US embassy in Berlin March 20, 2003, after the start of the US-led military action against Iraq. No more Coca-Cola or Budweiser, no Marlboro, no American whiskey or even American Express cards -- a growing number of restaurants in Germany are taking everything American off their menus to protest the Iraq war. Although the protests are mainly symbolic, waiters in dozens of bars and restaurants in Hamburg, Berlin, Munich, Bonn and other German cities are telling patrons, 'Sorry, Coca-Cola is not available any more due to the current political situation.' (Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters)

quote:

Spanish girls shout and hold protest banners during a march against a U.S.-led war against Iraq in Malaga, March 15, 2003. Hundreds of thousands of protesters worldwide took to the streets to say 'No' to any U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in the biggest anti-war demonstration since millions joined a global march for peace last month. (Rafael Marchante/Reuters)

quote:

Young people take part in a peace rally in Sydeny where more than 100,000 people protest a US-led war on Iraq.

Even in my wildest nightmares, I never would have imagined the bumblefuck governor of Texas had it in him. Now after these torture prison photos, it makes me wonder if our nation's image can ever recover.

quote:

Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew I was just wondering how the hell can bush have a somewhat high rating in the polls (based on my opinion of course)?

Over six in ten Americans disagree with torture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004May27.html

That 40% who celebrate it make up Bush's core base of support, and he will still retain about 40% support regardless of what he does.

He could rape a little girl on live tv, and his approval numbers still wouldn't go below about 36-40%.

Anyways, as for your contention that he's doing well in the polls, I'd have to disagree. He's getting his ass kicked in the polls.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004...ain619786.shtml

quote:

The President�s approval rating has dropped to a new low of 41 percent, and more than six in ten say the country is heading in the wrong direction.

Electoral College projections:

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html



EV's: Bush 201, Kerry 337

(270 to win)

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ That 40% who celebrate it make up Bush's core base of support, and he will still retain about 40% support regardless of what he does. He could rape a little girl on live tv, and his approval numbers still wouldn't go below about 36-40%. Anyways, as for your contention that he's doing well in the polls, I'd have to disagree. He's getting his ass kicked in the polls. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004...ain619786.shtml

Those videos and photo's are really putting him in a rut now though. I think a lot of Americans are starting to use their brains and think, "How are we stopping the spread of terrorism by substituting it with torture?" Okay, so maybe their thought process would be deemed more simple, such as "torture = bad", but regardless, this isn't doing well for him. For a "peace loving country" we sure have our foot in our mouth.

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Sixty-three percent say torture is never acceptable, even in cases in which a suspect is believed to have knowledge of an upcoming terrorist attack.

Regardless, they still can't agree on what's "humane" torture.

quote:

Among the techniques that a majority of Americans see as allowable: depriving a suspected terrorist of sleep (66 percent), keeping a hood on a suspect for long periods (57 percent), and playing loud music or other noises for extended periods (54 percent). All of these techniques have reportedly been used in Iraq and elsewhere to force suspects to talk to military or government investigators. Among the techniques Americans reject are some of those featured in photographs and videos that have become the chilling visual record of abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Clear majorities rejected sexually humiliating a suspect (84 percent), applying electric shocks to a prisoner (82 percent), threatening to harm the suspect's family (80 percent), holding a suspect's head under water (78 percent), forcing the suspect to go naked (74 percent), punching or kicking a suspect (69 percent), withholding food or water (61 percent), exposing the suspect to extreme heat or cold (58 percent), or threatening to shoot the suspect (57 percent).

clicky

Kerry and his damn taxes still have people turning away from him as well. Seems to be a lose-lose situation IMO. Even Washington Post is confused with what Kerry "coulda shoulda woulda" done if he were president in the situation with Iraq.

quote:

Still, it is unclear how Kerry's multilateralism would administer military force. In a briefing before the speech, Kerry's foreign policy advisers said it is uncertain whether the senator from Massachusetts would have waged war with Iraq if he were president.

clicky

Fuck all this, let's vote Nader!

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Those videos and photo's are really putting him in a rut now though. I think a lot of Americans are starting to use their brains and think, "How are we stopping the spread of terrorism by substituting it with torture?" Okay, so maybe their thought process would be deemed more simple, such as "torture = bad", but regardless, this isn't doing well for him. For a "peace loving country" we sure have our foot in our mouth. Regardless, they still can't agree on what's "humane" torture. clicky Kerry and his damn taxes still have people turning away from him as well. Seems to be a lose-lose situation IMO. Even Washington Post is confused with what Kerry "coulda shoulda woulda" done if he were president in the situation with Iraq. clicky Fuck all this, let's vote Nader!

I know you hate Kerry, but I don't care if the guy is an ass.

I care about policy, and the people he will appoint to his cabinet.

Getting rid of the neocons, Asscroft, and Gail Norton is priority number one for me.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ I know you hate Kerry, but I don't care if the guy is an ass. I care about policy, and the people he will appoint to his cabinet. Getting rid of the neocons, Asscroft, and Gail Norton is priority number one for me.

Frankly, it's his tax policies that have me worried. He's taking advantage of the revent unveiling of photos and videos, but frankly, nothing he's said has made me any more inclined to believe that he would be doing anything different. Kerry just doesn't impress me. He hasn't from day one, and you and a few others here know that better than anyone else.

Let's go to a different country.

Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew Im just curious...

I spent many a sleepless night wondering why 1/2 the country likes Bush...

1. His most dedicated base, the Christian right, will vote for him no matter what he does, just as long as he keeps pushing Christian values, laws, judges, and faith based programs. That's a pretty large chunk of the country. Can you say bible belt (Midwest and the south)? It's like asking someone to change his or her religion because of a bad priest, it ain't going to happen.

2. Another key constituent, big business, who has received so many favors, taxes breaks, and deregulation, they must be having wet dreams thinking about reelecting him to a second term. The corporate employees who fear losing their job if preferential treatment is reduced will also vote Bush.

3. Oh let's not forget about that average Joe personality that dumb people just can't get enough of. If Clinton proved anything personality trumps all. Ever since the invention of TV people have wanted a movie star for president. Just think of three of our most popular presidents: JFK, Reagan, and Clinton.

4. Finally let's not forget we love a president who makes us feel patriotic and tough. Hell we've got an action hero who speaks in one-liners. Didn't you hear he's going to rid the world of 'evildoers'! Who knows Arnold Swarzenagger might be our next president.

Pretty scary huh!

quote:

Lastly Bush has that average Joe personality that dumb people just can't get enough of. If Clinton proved anything personality trumps all. Ever since the invention of TV people have wanted a movie star for president. Just think of three of our most popular presidents: JFK, Reagan, and Clinton. 4. Oh we love a president who makes us feel patriotic and tough. Hell we got an action hero who speaks in one-liners. Who know Arnold Swarzenagger might be our next president.

By far the dumbest statement yet, I've seen come out of your keyboard.

elitist. your pretty scary.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo By far the dumbest statement yet, I've seen come out of your keyboard. elitist. your pretty scary.

Obviously the quality of your posts hasn't changed over time.

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Obviously the quality of your posts hasn't changed over time.

They're so bad I actually find them humorous. Kind of like watching Jerry Springer, you feel like a genius in comparison. Wicked ego booster!

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Obviously the quality of your posts hasn't changed over time.

so you agree with the third reason in his post?

I thought you may have been a little more enlightened.

Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow I spent many a sleepless night wondering why 1/2 the country likes Bush... 1. His most dedicated base, the Christian right, will vote for him no matter what he does, just as long as he keeps pushing Christian values, laws, judges, and faith based programs. That's a pretty large chunk of the country. Can you say bible belt (Midwest and the south)? It's like asking someone to change his or her religion because of a bad priest, it ain't going to happen. 2. Another key constituent, big business, who has received so many favors, taxes breaks, and deregulation, they must be having wet dreams thinking about reelecting him to a second term. The corporate employees who fear losing their job if preferential treatment is reduced will also vote Bush. 3. Oh let's not forget about that average Joe personality that dumb people just can't get enough of. If Clinton proved anything personality trumps all. Ever since the invention of TV people have wanted a movie star for president. Just think of three of our most popular presidents: JFK, Reagan, and Clinton. 4. Finally let's not forget we love a president who makes us feel patriotic and tough. Hell we've got an action hero who speaks in one-liners. Didn't you hear he's going to rid the world of 'evildoers'! Who knows Arnold Swarzenagger might be our next president. Pretty scary huh!

Sorry but attempting to generalize bush voters as being A) ultra-religious, B) Stupid, or C) the corrupt, wealthy intelligentsia IS rather elitist. Remember, stereotypes are equally ratarded regardless of whehter they come from the left or the right.

Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow I spent many a sleepless night wondering why 1/2 the country likes Bush... 1. His most dedicated base, the Christian right, will vote for him no matter what he does, just as long as he keeps pushing Christian values, laws, judges, and faith based programs. That's a pretty large chunk of the country. Can you say bible belt (Midwest and the south)? It's like asking someone to change his or her religion because of a bad priest, it ain't going to happen. 2. Another key constituent, big business, who has received so many favors, taxes breaks, and deregulation, they must be having wet dreams thinking about reelecting him to a second term. The corporate employees who fear losing their job if preferential treatment is reduced will also vote Bush. 3. Oh let's not forget about that average Joe personality that dumb people just can't get enough of. If Clinton proved anything personality trumps all. Ever since the invention of TV people have wanted a movie star for president. Just think of three of our most popular presidents: JFK, Reagan, and Clinton. 4. Finally let's not forget we love a president who makes us feel patriotic and tough. Hell we've got an action hero who speaks in one-liners. Didn't you hear he's going to rid the world of 'evildoers'! Who knows Arnold Swarzenagger might be our next president. Pretty scary huh!

Depends what christians... cause even the POPE was against the War..

Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Depends what christians... cause even the POPE was against the War..

You say that as if it's a surprise? Is the pope usually a symbol of war?

Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You say that as if it's a surprise? Is the pope usually a symbol of war?

Depends on the time horizon you attaches with the term "usually". I think that if you study the history of Europe throughout the ages, Popes have a tendency to cause more wars than they prevent.

quote:

Originally posted by anuneventrade Kerry and his damn taxes still have people turning away from him as well. Seems to be a lose-lose situation IMO. Even Washington Post is confused with what Kerry "coulda shoulda woulda" done if he were president in the situation with Iraq.

What taxes? You mean Kerry wishing to roll back the taxes for the most wealthy? That's a problem for you? Explain.

He also wants to keep the tax breaks for the middle class. Actually, he wants to increase tax breaks for the middle class that includes tax credits for health care and college tuition:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

quote:

Provide Tax Relief to Middle Class Families John Kerry has the courage to take on the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. However, he believes that we should keep the middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for in 2001 and 2003. Specifically, he wants to protect the increases in the child tax credit, the reduced marriage penalty and the new tax bracket that helps people save $350 on their first level of income. He strongly disagrees with Democrats who want to repeal these tax cuts because it would cost a typical middle-class family with two children an additional $2,000. These families are often already struggling with higher health care costs and higher state and local taxes. In fact, John Kerry wants to give more tax breaks to the middle class with new tax credits on health care and college tuition. These tax cuts are part of his plan to restore the economy and cut the budget deficit in half in four years.

And I think it's obvious that Kerry would not have initially invaded Iraq, because it diverted attention away from the actual threat of terrorism from Al Qaeda. As to what he would like to do now with Iraq, you can read for yourself and decide:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

quote:

Fuck all this, let's vote Nader!

If you do not take issue with this President and his Administration, and do not wish to see a change in our current foreign and domestic policies, then by all means you go right ahead and vote for Nader. Realistically you ought to just be voting for Bush, if this is your current line of thinking.

But of course, it's your vote, and I have oh so little say in the matter.

Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Sorry but attempting to generalize bush voters as being A) ultra-religious, B) Stupid, or C) the corrupt, wealthy intelligentsia IS rather elitist. Remember, stereotypes are equally ratarded regardless of whehter they come from the left or the right.

Thread author wanted to know why people support Bush, so I out lined a few general reasons. Duh yes they are generalizations because I didn't have time to individually interview the entire electorate to get their take. BTW, it's common knowledge, Bush's core base is religious people, that's not a stereotype that's a fact.

Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Thread author wanted to know why people support Bush, so I out lined a few general reasons. Duh yes they are generalizations because I didn't have time to individually interview the entire electorate to get their take on why they would vote for Bush. BTW, it's common knowledge, Bush's core base is religious people, that's not a stereotype that's a fact.

So Q5echo was warranted with his response that your post was elitist ...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by occrider So Q5echo was warranted with his response that your post was elitist ...

lets hear your reasons if you think mine are so flawed and elitist, though I'm not sure how they were elitist or are you just stereotyping me BTW Q5echo isn't the most creditable source

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by occrider So Q5echo was warranted with his response that your post was elitist ...

Speaking in generalizations on one's opinions equates to elitism?

Eh?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow lets hear your reasons if you think mine are so flawed and elitist, though I'm not sure how they were elitist or are you just stereotyping me BTW Q5echo isn't the most creditable source

Simply put, your post stated that anyone who votes bush is either A) ultra-religious, B) Stupid, or C) corrupt. That isn't elitist?

quote:

Speaking in generalizations on one's opinions equates to elitism? Eh?

In my opinion, I'm the smartest guy on these forums because everyone else is either A) Socialist B) A Liberal or C) A moron.

No I'm not being elitist ... that's just my opinion. Right?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by occrider In my opinion, I'm the smartest guy on these forums because everyone else is either A) Socialist B) A Liberal or C) A moron. No I'm not being elitist ... that's just my opinion. Right?

The choices are correct, as is it being your opinion.

No problems here. What were we arguing again?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What makes Bush a Good or Bad leader

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 The choices are correct, as is it being your opinion. No problems here. What were we arguing again?

Then the adjective is correct too . Aren't we arguing for the sake of arguing? I'm in that mood .... work is slow today

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