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-- Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away!
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Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away!
there is one major loophole in the new law that nobody is talking about. The fact that By-law enforcement officers have no legal right to demand identification from you. If they cant identify you they cant charge you. You are legally entitled to tell them to Fuck off if they ask for ID. You are also legally able to tell them your name is Charlie Brown or Elvis Presley if they ask. Therefore, puff away until security at a club asks you to put it out (and maybe they wont even ask) because you are under absolutely no threat of getting fined yourself.
Re: Loophole In Smoking Bylaw! Puff Away!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 there is one major loophole in the new law that nobody is talking about. The fact that By-law enforcement officers have no legal right to demand identification from you. If they cant identify you they cant charge you. You are legally entitled to tell them to Fuck off if they ask for ID. You are also legally able to tell them your name is Charlie Brown or Elvis Presley if they ask. Therefore, puff away until security at a club asks you to put it out (and maybe they wont even ask) because you are under absolutely no threat of getting fined yourself. |
Can't they fine the establishment for not enforcing the ban?
Fines to target owners
SMOKERS DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ID
By ZEN RURYK, CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF
Most butt out, a few don't
Who you gonna call?
TORONTO HEALTH officials vow to take a zero-tolerance approach to enforcing the city's butt ban in bars. The city has eight inspectors working full-time on enforcing Toronto's no-smoking bylaw.
"They work hours that are in line with the hospitality industry -- evenings, weekends ... overnight in some cases," Ron Colvin, of Toronto's health department, said.
Inspectors will primarily rely on complaints when enforcing the smoking rules, although they will also conduct some spot checks.
$225 FOR FIRST OFFENCE
They'll typically issue $255 tickets for those charged with a first offence. Repeat offenders can face fines as high as $5,000.
"Our enforcement staff are instructed to first look for compliance on behalf of the proprietor," Colvin says. "If the proprietor is not taking any action whatsoever to prevent smoking in their establishment, that's going to be our focus entirely."
However, if bar owners are doing everything in their power to ensure patrons comply with the bylaw, the enforcement officers will target customers who light up, Colvin says.
NO LEGAL AUTHORITY
However, a health department spokesman adds that it can be difficult to go after patrons because inspectors have no authority to require people to produce identification. As a result, it's expected that inspectors will charge owner- operators of the establishments rather than individuals.
While inspectors were on the job last night, it will likely be today before any charges are laid.
In the event they believe a pub owner has violated the bylaw, inspectors want to check licensing information to ensure they have correctly identified the proprietor before formally filing charges.
So you wanna be a smartass and risk a $250 fine on technicality?
You know you'll still get it eventually...what's the point or being a smartass??? 
You'll just piss off everyone around you including the owner and customers lol
I'd agree, there's no point to causing a scene (In a club I'm assuming you like going to) just for a cigarette and some farfetched technicality.
If the club does not want to be fined, they will enforce the bylaw.
If you don't want to get kicked out of the club, then you won't smoke.
get it?
Got it!
im pretty sure the scenerio will be this.
CLubs allow patrons to smoke..when smoking police show up they will tell patrons to butt out thus showing that they are trying to enforce the law. When the smoke police demand ID and the patron is smart the patron will tell them to fuck off. I dont think security will do anything more than ask you to butt out. If you dont, then they might get nasty.
This is why i suggest everyone smoke until club security asks you to quit.
And you dont want to smoke because you may upset people? How quaintly canadian. You arent risking a fine because all you have to do is tell them you arent producing your ID. Simple as that.
i can't believe how annoying your online personality is.
Why? because i advocate freedom and rights?
Some people get offended too easily i guess.
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 Why? because i advocate freedom and rights? Some people get offended too easily i guess. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 Why? because i advocate freedom and rights? Some people get offended too easily i guess. |
ive come to the conclusion that most people in fact dont.
OK so YOU might not get a ticket but the CLUB will. And im pretty sure the club wont want to keep getting $5000 (price tag for being a repeat offender) fines so they will make sure people in their club aren't smoking.
so? thats not your problem.. smoke and see if the club will enforce it. If they do, then apologize and butt out. Im willing to bet that most clubs wont give a shit unless the smoke police are actually on the premises.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 so? thats not your problem.. smoke and see if the club will enforce it. If they do, then apologize and butt out. Im willing to bet that most clubs wont give a shit unless the smoke police are actually on the premises. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by StereoPrincess i can't believe how annoying your online personality is. |
what about the non smokers? what have they been doing up to now? i dont see non smokers staying home.
Oh and the rat line? Its only open weekdays until 4:30 pm. Big lot of good that will do.
And why should i shut up? I bet until i made this thread you didnt even know this loophole exists. Just because you dont agree with what i say doesnt mean i should shut up. My threads have started a lot of good healthy debates around here.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Special K LOL I was thinking the exact same thing (like fuck does this guy ever shutup???). Same thing over and over and over again. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 And why should i shut up? I bet until i made this thread you didnt even know this loophole exists. Just because you dont agree with what i say doesnt mean i should shut up. My threads have started a lot of good healthy debates around here. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 what about the non smokers? what have they been doing up to now? i dont see non smokers staying home. Oh and the rat line? Its only open weekdays until 4:30 pm. Big lot of good that will do. And why should i shut up? I bet until i made this thread you didnt even know this loophole exists. Just because you dont agree with what i say doesnt mean i should shut up. My threads have started a lot of good healthy debates around here. |
This isnt the same subject. this is about the loophole and why you can continue smoking...
and yes im really a nice guy.... i just believe that a chat forum is a good place to have a debate with strangers.
Sadly many people around here take other's differing point of views personally. Not like in Europe where 2 people can have a heated political arguement with yelling and everything and then hug each other at the end of it and carry on drinking their wine as friends...
Starsearcher: that depends on who the owner wishes to cater to more.
Jayx1 you're literally arguing for the sake of it. There's no answer here, most clubs will not tolerate smokers if there's a $5k fine attached to them. You aren't advocating rights and freedoms you're talking just to hear (see) your own voice (words). Maybe you're right and technically you can smoke without paying the fine because bylaw officers can't force you to produce ID, but what they can do is call the police, who will come if called and they can force you to produce ID and pay. You don't have a discernable point to your argument, only that there is some loophole that you believe may work (have you contacted a lawyer regarding this, to confirm it?). Why do you always raise points that seem to be purely random and exist only to instigate annoyance and frustration? Your so called "debate" never even begins to take into account or counter anyone elses arguments. You simply restate your thesis over and over and over again until no one cares enough to reply!
My two cents.
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