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After Beatmatching

lets say you manage to put both songs together, beatmatched and everything.
what are some ways to bring the other track in?
i usually beatmatch perfectly but for some reason cant mix them once they are sounding at the same time.
Any suggestions?

EQ knobs are your best friend here. Other than that, depends on what kind of transition you're trying to do. A fast cut, long smooth blend, etc.

ok, so what you're saying is that although the tracks are beatmatched the mix still sounds pants?

Are your phrases aligned?
ie count the beat as 1,2,3,4, 2,2,3,4, 3,2,3,4,...8,2,3,4,

so that when the beat of track A hits on the 1 again it is aligned with the 1 on track B? so they both start phrases at the same time.

Or maybe the tracks are out of key and harmonically clash? That can sound really bad as well.

could be that...but how do you do that beatcount you are referring to?

Any music on a 4/4 bar is easy to count, which dance music is. The "one" is easy to hear because something in the song changes at that time. Now not every "one" has a change, usualy you can count 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4.......do each cycle 4 or 8 times and thats when the change comes on the "one". Its best to listen to one record over the speakers from the very start.When the kick comes in, start counting and you will hear the changes I'm talking about. When you mix you always whant to release the incomming record on the "one". Its hard to explain but you'll get it.

quote:

Originally posted by deibero could be that...but how do you do that beatcount you are referring to?

Basically this is the way I do it is I spin pretty much trance which is written in I think 64 and 32 beat phrases (can't vouch for the other EDM genres but I suspect most if not all will be the same). At the start of each phrase usually, not always, you'll hear a change in the song (hi hats drop in/out, kick drums in/out, crescendo ,decrescendo etc). You take these little hints and determine where your phrases are and then you can take the one beat off the incoming song and be able to drop it on the one beat of the outgoing song. I should also add that the one beat is the start of the whole 64 beat phrase and there might be a small phrase change sound in the middle of the 64 beat phrase signifying a 32 beat phrase but you can usually differntiate the 2 because the start of the 64 has more of a dramatic/noticeable change. If this confuses you just try counting beats (1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 3-2-3-4 etc) from the start of the song and hear for yourself.

Bear in mind I'm a noob to this as well (2 months) and I suspect that my explanation might be a bit shite but I can try to iron out anything you don't understand or someone might be able to explain it better. Besides, it's really late, almost early, and I need to get to bed.

Do the following. Play any song you like, from the very beginning, as soon as the first beat lands start counting each beat... 1,2,3,4...16, and then repeat 1,2,3,4...16,1,2,3,etc. So basically, what should be the 17th beat is the 1st beat of the next phrase. Mentally split the song into 16 beat pieces, that repeat themselves throughout the song. At the first beat of a phrase (17th/1st beat), you'll hear a slight addition/subraction/variation in the sound of the song. Once you get the hang of that, keep reading.

The key to phrase matching is simple, match the first beat of a phrase in the first song (beat number 1) to the first beat of a phrase of the 2nd song coming in.

This will make the mix sound MUCH better, much smoother due to the structure of music in general. This "rule" is applied to every song, it's even true in other genres with a distinct pattern structure... such as rock, rap, etc.

To mix well, you must not only beatmatch but phrasematch as well. Good luck bud.

Sounds good, only for trance / progressive I would take 64 beats as the point of starting the incoming track (which means every 4 phrases of every 16 bars), that'll sound even better.

For (loop-based) techno, where it is often quite hard to find out where you are, matching tracks on a bar level often suffices in order to make it sound decent.

quote:

Originally posted by TwoPlow EQ knobs are your best friend here. Other than that, depends on what kind of transition you're trying to do. A fast cut, long smooth blend, etc.

never thought of that.... thnx!

backspins are a dj's best friend! just backspin from one record to the other, a whole set long! People love it!



actually i've seen a "dj" do that some time ago at a local party. We pretty much boo'ed him away

quote:

Originally posted by basd For (loop-based) techno, where it is often quite hard to find out where you are, matching tracks on a bar level often suffices in order to make it sound decent.

yeah, but techno, in the harder varieties, normally allow you to slap the faders upward, play with them, generally go wild, as it is very hard style of music, it logically goes with a hard style of mixing. not to mention you normally use 3 decks, and it's a constant pummelling of beats, no space to try and mix it like Sasha.

quote:

Originally posted by Wildfir3 backspins are a dj's best friend! just backspin from one record to the other, a whole set long! People love it! actually i've seen a "dj" do that some time ago at a local party. We pretty much boo'ed him away

What's backspin? Hope I'm not doing it, hehe.

thanks for the suggestions...gonna try to see if they help...

quote:

Originally posted by Inertia yeah, but techno, in the harder varieties, normally allow you to slap the faders upward, play with them, generally go wild, as it is very hard style of music, it logically goes with a hard style of mixing. not to mention you normally use 3 decks, and it's a constant pummelling of beats, no space to try and mix it like Sasha.

]
I know

quote:

Originally posted by MezzicanTrancEr What's backspin? Hope I'm not doing it, hehe.

it's the "twirl" sound you hear when you quickly spin the record backwards, it's usually 'thrown' backwards

quote:

Originally posted by Wildfir3 backspins are a dj's best friend! just backspin from one record to the other, a whole set long! People love it! actually i've seen a "dj" do that some time ago at a local party. We pretty much boo'ed him away

DJ Backspin lives on!

I'm presuming everyone else has written what i'm gonna say so i'll keep it short and simple.

You have different sections throughout a song. There will be something defining that particular section. Change of the bass, symbols, a breakdown something like that. It is always best to bring in a song on them. The songs you are mixing will probably follow the same structure so things will seem to happen at the same time.

Another thing is, just because you've got it beatmatched quickly doesn't mean you have to mix it in straight away. You've got it cued up so don't worry. Be creative, play with the EQ. Bring in a teaser of the song you have cued up.

Oh, and always (nearly always) bring in your tune with the bass down. Otherwise you'll get an annoying thud!

Worth thinking to yourself also in terms of when to mix. If a song has a lot going on in it, the chances are it will sound real messy if you mix something over the top. Never mix (Nearly never ) over the top of vocals or main melodies... will just sound shite.

cheers
Nem

theres also a gr8 book called 'how to dj properly' (the art and science of playing records, by frank broughton and bill brewster. Very good book for any dj, who wants to get into the djing business or music business. The book goes into beatmatching, blending, cutting, phases, placing a mix, scratching and mixing harmonically, as well as loads of other usefull info, buy it now.

i ordered the book already...thanks for the help

quote:

Originally posted by DJAntSmith DJ Backspin lives on! I'm presuming everyone else has written what i'm gonna say so i'll keep it short and simple. You have different sections throughout a song. There will be something defining that particular section. Change of the bass, symbols, a breakdown something like that. It is always best to bring in a song on them. The songs you are mixing will probably follow the same structure so things will seem to happen at the same time. Another thing is, just because you've got it beatmatched quickly doesn't mean you have to mix it in straight away. You've got it cued up so don't worry. Be creative, play with the EQ. Bring in a teaser of the song you have cued up. Oh, and always (nearly always) bring in your tune with the bass down. Otherwise you'll get an annoying thud!

Very nice. That's what I'd say.

I can't really give advice on counting beats. I've played the violin and bass since fourth grade, so everything in music comes so natural to me.

The best I can give is to think of music in terms of four. Listen to music and start going "1, 2, 3, 4" with the beat and repeating that in your head as you listen. Just keep thinking in fours as you listen to it, and eventually you'll get the hang of it. Other than that, I can't think of any easy way to explain it.

quote:

Originally posted by deibero i ordered the book already...thanks for the help

That will be your bible! I have read that book and it doesn't matter if you're just starting out, had your decks a while or can do with your eyes shut, everybody can learn something from this book!

quote:

Originally posted by DJAntSmith That will be your bible! I have read that book and it doesn't matter if you're just starting out, had your decks a while or can do with your eyes shut, everybody can learn something from this book!

Absolutely.

I have a copy too.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Absolutely. I have a copy too. Cheers Nem

n00b :P.






hehe, I keed, I keed. I've only browsed through the book, but I only hear good things about it.

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