TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Pledge of Allegiance @ school??
Pages (5): [1] 2 3 4 5 »

Pledge of Allegiance @ school??

I browsed this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/14/s...e.ap/index.html
and this struck me

quote:

The decision leaves untouched the practice in which millions of schoolchildren around the country begin the day by reciting the pledge.

So what, US of A mates; did you have to recite a pledge of allegiance at school every day or something? If so, what's the full pledge, guys?

I was not required to recite it daily, but did recite it on several occasions growing up while at school. The full pledge as I learned it(including God referenc) is:

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, for liberty and justice for all.

Yes, we cited the full Pledge throughout grade school. I don't recall doing it after 6th grade, however. And we recited it with the "under God" phrase. It didn't bother me then, and it doesn't really bother me much now. But I do understand the gripe this man had, and I do think there is some legitimacy to his gripe, esp. when one looks at the rationale for inserting that God reference back in the 50's.

The case itself, however, was dismissed on a formality - a custody concern on the atheist father, rather than on the issue at hand. The three Conservative judges, however, did write their view on the matter - that "under God" is appropriate and does not violate the Constitution. I tend to disagree, but I honestly think there are bigger concerns in our courts to worry about. This issue may certainly come up again, and the Supreme Court will likely have to make a ruling on it without minor formalities getting in the way.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I honestly think there are bigger concerns in our courts to worry about.

Definitely agree with you on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, for liberty and justice for all.

seriously, if a school should start with that in sweden, they would be considered idiots

that seems so brain washing to me

I've never said it and I never will, because I don't pledge any such allegiance and I wouldn't want to make a liar of myself. When I was going to school it was pretty much expected that you would, but no one seemed to pay attention if you didn't, as long as you stood up while it was being recited, which I did.

Requiring someone to recite it would seem rather dim to me. Either they want to recite it or not, and it they do not, being forced to will only foster resentment against the pledge and everything it stands for.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew seriously, if a school should start with that in sweden, they would be considered idiots that seems so brain washing to me

Thank god someone else besides me thinks this!

I went to a Catholic school so the "under God" part was normal. I remember one kid refused to say it one day so they sent him to the office and he ended up being sent home

Well, I thought this to be quite remarkable which is why I posted. Pledging Allegance to the Flag in school is quite unheard of in Belgium & Europe as far as I know. Certainly on a national scale.
Quite remarkable.

I wasn't born here but now consider myself a "American" with European values. Anyways, I recited this during school and had no problems with it. The thing is, since that you're in this country, shouldn't you respect its customs and laws? Even though they may not be yours? I understand to some this would be a big problem, but what if for example an American went to Egypt and had to recite some kind of pledge. I would think that as a foreigner you would be oblidged to do respect that country's customs.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway I wasn't born here but now consider myself a "American" with European values. Anyways, I recited this during school and had no problems with it. The thing is, since that you're in this country, shouldn't you respect its customs and laws? Even though they may not be yours? I understand to some this would be a big problem, but what if for example an American went to Egypt and had to recite some kind of pledge. I would think that as a foreigner you would be oblidged to do respect that country's customs.

Well I can't speak for most laws regarding foreigners, but if you are a legitimate U.S. citizen then you have every right to argue your Constitutional rights - namely the separation of Church and State. I would venture to guess that these same rights are given to exceptional cases, such as foreign exchange students.

That is the beauty of freedom and liberty in this country. We are not merely bound by customs; rather, we are bound by the Constitutional laws that govern our society.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Well I can't speak for most laws regarding foreigners, but if you are a legitimate U.S. citizen then you have every right to argue your Constitutional rights - namely the separation of Church and State. I would venture to guess that these same rights are given to exceptional cases, such as foreign exchange students. That is the beauty of freedom and liberty in this country. We are not merely bound by customs; rather, we are bound by the Constitutional laws that govern our society.

I guess freedom can be good and bad. Sometimes I think the US has too much freedom.

It's interesting that the Supreme Court chose to release its decision on Flag Day. Perhaps a hint to future litigants...

Ok, guys, a collective WTF on a Belgian forum on this one, but someone replied that before the beginning of a movie in a movie theatre, the national anthem is played. Can you guys verify (if so, how widespread is this) or discard this, plz?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway I guess freedom can be good and bad. Sometimes I think the US has too much freedom.

how is that bad?

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway I guess freedom can be good and bad. Sometimes I think the US has too much freedom.

I'll bite - can you elaborate?

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Bonzai Ok, guys, a collective WTF on a Belgian forum on this one, but someone replied that before the beginning of a movie in a movie theatre, the national anthem is played. Can you guys verify (if so, how widespread is this) or discard this, plz?

In the US? Not quite. The most "patriotic" thing I've seen before a movie in a theater is a US Army commercial (man, I hate advertisements before movies, you pay $8.50 to watch commercials).

I'd also like to add, that as said before, saying the pledge of allegience is optional. Yes, you have to stand up, but no public school can force a kid to say it. I think it's done much more regularly in primary schools as a teaching aid then as any attempt to brainwash. As long as it's optional, I don't really care (to some extent) what others around a kid are saying, as long as he has the right not to.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Bonzai Ok, guys, a collective WTF on a Belgian forum on this one, but someone replied that before the beginning of a movie in a movie theatre, the national anthem is played. Can you guys verify (if so, how widespread is this) or discard this, plz?

Umm, no - that's a strange rumor indeed. Evidently someone there is attempting to paint us into that all-too-strange ultra-nationalist corner.

THX 4 clearing that one up, guys.

Whatever. This country was funded with that in mind, therefore I think it should stay. It deferintiates with laws that affects everyone, to a phrase that reminds the history of the United States, and ancestors.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I'll bite - can you elaborate?

Ok well this isn't going to be some factual essay just my opinion. Fer example In this case, someone can argue about the pledge which is his right to freedom of choice, however, it is at the same time attacking a U.S. custom that has been around for the last two centuries. Many people have fought and died to uphold this statement.
I guess you can call it national pride.
Does this make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Bonzai Ok, guys, a collective WTF on a Belgian forum on this one, but someone replied that before the beginning of a movie in a movie theatre, the national anthem is played. Can you guys verify (if so, how widespread is this) or discard this, plz?

Geez the limits to which people will spread rumors about Americans knows no bounds, I hope you highlighted the clear idiocracy of the suggestion of such a thing to the Belgian forum, or direct them here for some much needed clarification, clearly the individual has never been to the movies in America or knows anything about it. Ridiculous doesn't even begin to describe such a notion, truly foolish.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway Ok well this isn't going to be some factual essay just my opinion. Fer example In this case, someone can argue about the pledge which is his right to freedom of choice, however, it is at the same time attacking a U.S. custom that has been around for the last two centuries. Many people have fought and died to uphold this statement. I guess you can call it national pride. Does this make sense?

so if a lot of people have died for something, you should not have the right to criticize it? if something is imprinted in peoples minds as good, you should not criticize it?

i can somehow understand what you mean (if i understood you correctly...), but it still doesn't make any sense.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew so if a lot of people have died for something, you should not have the right to criticize it? if something is imprinted in peoples minds as good, you should not criticize it? i can somehow understand what you mean (if i understood you correctly...), but it still doesn't make any sense.

It's not "the right to critize it", this is about having the freedom to argue about something that is part of the US history. Where do you cross the line between freedom and customs? I know the government (in most cases) try to seperate itself from religion. For example, here in a LA, there was this case about removing the cross from the LA city's emblem. Which resulted in the removal of that cross symbol. Anyways, in this case, I know the word "God" is a strong religious statment, however, I do interprete it has "any" God. To some, this means one God only.
I still think that since this pledge is not forced upon students, at least by law, it shouldn't be changed. If people think that this is brain washing, then I pitty the fool who is easily brainwashed.

quote:

Originally posted by DjSway It's not "the right to critize it", this is about having the freedom to argue about something that is part of the US history. Where do you cross the line between freedom and customs? I know the government (in most cases) try to seperate itself from religion. For example, here in a LA, there was this case about removing the cross from the LA city's emblem. Which resulted in the removal of that cross symbol. Anyways, in this case, I know the word "God" is a strong religious statment, however, I do interprete it has "any" God. To some, this means one God only. I still think that since this pledge is not forced upon students, at least by law, it shouldn't be changed. If people think that this is brain washing, then I pitty the fool who is easily brainwashed.

I totally agree with you. Why change the customs of something that this country was basically built upon.. is like changing the whole white house structure, because it does not fit modern times structures.. and it bothers the people that walk outside to watch such an old greek like structure..... I know the analogy is not quite the same, really.. but I hope you people know where Im getting at. Jeezz.. leave history and those customs by itself, just respect it, learn and live to respect... you can say the whole pledge and not say the word god.. how can it bother you much?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.