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-- Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

Let's all give a round of applause to our fantastic drug war policy on Afghanistan!!! 20x higher than during the last year of the Taliban regime - that deserves a cigar Dubya!:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040615_980.html

quote:

One of the biggest problems facing Afghanistan's first elected post-Taliban government will be the country's illicit cultivation of opium poppies, which satisfied almost three-fourths of the world's opium demand last year. The trade, 20 times that during the Taliban's last year, brought in $2.3 billion, more than half Afghanistan's gross domestic product. Experts expect plantings to be bigger this year to a record level.

Sweet maybe I can score cheaper Heroin now!

Seriously that stuff grows like weeds and they make many times their income off of it. Until people buy real crops for the same price as poppies theres no way they will stop. The same problem exists in south america where we are spending millions trying to stop it as well.

Maybe the world should tell the farmers that they will buy certain crops at a guaranteed price higher than they would be receiving from poppy growth and support the seeding and destruction of the current crops. Sorry can't think of anything else great at the moment

Well I guess it explains the economic boom:

quote:

Our economy in the year 2002 grew by 30 percent; in the year 2003, by 25 percent or more; in the year 2004, the growth is estimated to be 20 percent. And we are hoping, as some of the banks have predicted, that the Afghan economy will grow until 2008 by 15 percent, and beyond that for another five years, by 10 percent. Thank you very much. This could not have been possible without your help, without America's assistance. President Karzai - 15/06/04

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Jun15.html

Re: Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Let's all give a round of applause to our fantastic drug war policy on Afghanistan!!! 20x higher than during the last year of the Taliban regime - that deserves a cigar Dubya!: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040615_980.html

C'mon now Opus our views usually are shared but on this one not much can be done in the short term to simply stop the production as the cases of Colombia, Bolivia, Peru in the cocaine trade demonstrates, unless and here's the kicker we encourage the Taleban methods of controlling the growth, you grow poppies we cut your hands off and burn down the field, how would that look in the world

The Taleban had their own special methods of dealing with the issue, methods that cannot be employed by the international community in Afghanistan, intead we will have to encourage the growth of other crops, provide other opportunities for the farmers and get full control over the regions where the growth is occuring. Human nature tends to take liberties with newfound freedoms along with circumstances, if I was a poor Afghan farmer I would be growing poppies too and therein lies the problem. Its going to be a long hard effort to curb the production, so to compare America's ability(should be the international community actually) to control poppy production in Afghanistan versus the Taleban is very unfair indeed, after all these were people who shot women in the head as execution

Re: Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Let's all give a round of applause to our fantastic drug war policy on Afghanistan!!! 20x higher than during the last year of the Taliban regime - that deserves a cigar Dubya!: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040615_980.html

Gee. Thought you guys would be happy.
Afterall, he's just doing this to win some points with the liberal vote



oooooo!!!

right, and the reason we attacked afghan was to lower opium production

its funny how the left is now getting on Bush's ass for not stopping the supply when all along they preach about how we should stop the demand and look at "the root of the problem".

Re: Re: Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan C'mon now Opus our views usually are shared but on this one not much can be done in the short term to simply stop the production as the cases of Colombia, Bolivia, Peru in the cocaine trade demonstrates, unless and here's the kicker we encourage the Taleban methods of controlling the growth, you grow poppies we cut your hands off and burn down the field, how would that look in the world The Taleban had their own special methods of dealing with the issue, methods that cannot be employed by the international community in Afghanistan, intead we will have to encourage the growth of other crops, provide other opportunities for the farmers and get full control over the regions where the growth is occuring. Human nature tends to take liberties with newfound freedoms along with circumstances, if I was a poor Afghan farmer I would be growing poppies too and therein lies the problem. Its going to be a long hard effort to curb the production, so to compare America's ability(should be the international community actually) to control poppy production in Afghanistan versus the Taleban is very unfair indeed, after all these were people who shot women in the head as execution

Agreed. Let's look at how the esteemed "cannabisnews" regarded the US's support of the Taliban's wonderous acheivements in suppressing opium production prior to 9/11:

quote:

That a totalitarian country can effectively crack down on its farmers is not surprising. But it is grotesque for a U.S. official, James P. Callahan, director of the Department of State�s Asian anti-drug program, to describe the Taliban�s special methods in the language of representative democracy: "The Taliban used a system of consensus-building," Callahan said after a visit with the Taliban, adding that the Taliban justified the ban on drugs "in very religious terms." Of course, Callahan also reported, those who didn�t obey the theocratic edict would be sent to prison. In a country where those who break minor rules are simply beaten on the spot by religious police and others are stoned to death, it�s understandable that the government�s "religious" argument might be compelling. Even if it means, as Callahan concedes, that most of the farmers who grew the poppies will now confront starvation. That�s because the Afghan economy has been ruined by the religious extremism of the Taliban, making the attraction of opium as a previously tolerated quick cash crop overwhelming. For that reason, the opium ban will not last unless the United States is willing to pour far larger amounts of money into underwriting the Afghan economy. As the Drug Enforcement Administration�s Steven Casteel admitted, "The bad side of the ban is that it�s bringing their country - or certain regions of their country - to economic ruin." Nor did he hold out much hope for Afghan farmers growing other crops such as wheat, which require a vast infrastructure to supply water and fertilizer that no longer exists in that devastated country. There�s little doubt that the Taliban will turn once again to the easily taxed cash crop of opium in order to stay in power. The Taliban might suddenly be the dream regime of our own drug-war zealots, but in the end this alliance will prove a costly failure. Our long, sad history of signing up dictators in the war on drugs demonstrates the futility of building a foreign policy on a domestic obsession http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/10/thread10954.shtml

The simple fact of the matter is that opium production is a matter of survival for many farmers:

quote:

The farmers' motivation is survival: poppy is about 30 times more profitable than, say, wheat. "If you and I were in their position, we would do the same," says a United Nations official who asked for anonymity. "The alternative is to starve." Most experts say that opium is probably Afghanistan's second-leading industry (behind smuggling), generating several hundred million dollars a year. And unlike the Taliban, which relied on financing from the al Qaeda network to run the country, opium economics have a long local history. Until last year, Afghanistan produced almost three-quarters of the world's heroin. The Taliban choked the national opium-producing system, though. No one outside the regime knows exactly what motivated the militia to ban poppy production in July 2000. While Taliban spokesmen said they were simply following the strictures of the Koran, others suspected the regime of timing the market or seeking international favor. But the Taliban made the ban stick, using their brutal reputation to scare farmers into complying. The annual opium harvest fell 98 percent in 2001, from more than 4000 tons to 80 tons. Fewer than 20,000 acres remain under poppy cultivation, down from over 200,000 acres. Even suspicious US officials, watching via spy satellites, took notice. "This was something unprecedented," says a State Department analyst who tracks the Afghan drug trade http://www.eurasianet.org/departmen...eav120501.shtml

So people had the gall to complain about the US's support of Taliban brutality in order to bolster its war on drugs, and now complain that the US isn't "doing enough" to stop the dreaded growth in opium production? It's a catch-22 situation. If the US resorts to taliban-esque methods for supression you all will be screaming about human rights. If the US respects human rights and attempts to entice farmers through other means, you all will scream about how the US is not as "effective" as the Taliban was. An analagous situation would be if the "liberation" of Germany from the Nazis resulted in dramatic spikes in crime, as the country progressed from a totalitarian state to a democratic state, and people started criticizing Truman for the increased crime. Oh well, whatever fits the agenda I suppose ...

quote:

For Afghan farmers it is a simple choice. A farmer can earn �6,000 for a hectare of opium, compared to just �34 for wheat

right, thats bush's fault too

Re: Re: Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus oooooo!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo right, thats bush's fault too

Of course it is. Who else? Bush is to blame for eveything that's even the slightest wrong. As a leftie I blame my grass-pollen allergy on Bush! Damn yoooouuuu Bush!

quote:

Originally posted by Dj_Irish Of course it is. Who else? Bush is to blame for eveything that's even the slightest wrong. As a leftie I blame my grass-pollen allergy on Bush! Damn yoooouuuu Bush!

agreeed!

Re: Re: Re: Congratulations Bush - Opium Trade 20x greater now

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Agreed. Let's look at how the esteemed "cannabisnews" regarded the US's support of the Taliban's wonderous acheivements in suppressing opium production prior to 9/11: The simple fact of the matter is that opium production is a matter of survival for many farmers:

I certainly don't dispute the necessity of poppy seed production to the life of Afghan farmers, much of the same way Columbian farmers growing Coca plants. But why attempt to crack down and change drug production in one 3rd world country while having a blind eye in another? Perhaps the circumstances are different in Columbia vs. Afghanistan, but should we not be concerned with this increase in opium production, and should we not be applying our same crackdown, drug-war methods in all cases?

quote:

So people had the gall to complain about the US's support of Taliban brutality in order to bolster its war on drugs, and now complain that the US isn't "doing enough" to stop the dreaded growth in opium production? It's a catch-22 situation. If the US resorts to taliban-esque methods for supression you all will be screaming about human rights. If the US respects human rights and attempts to entice farmers through other means, you all will scream about how the US is not as "effective" as the Taliban was. An analagous situation would be if the "liberation" of Germany from the Nazis resulted in dramatic spikes in crime, as the country progressed from a totalitarian state to a democratic state, and people started criticizing Truman for the increased crime. Oh well, whatever fits the agenda I suppose ...

I'm not sure I am arguing in the same manner as the "people" you describe here. If anything I would say that I support the Taliban's ban on poppy production - whether it be for religious reasons or not (obviously it was religious rationale in this case). My argument lies solely on the control of this huge increase in poppy production. Do I have any suggestions on how to stem it, given the fact that farmers rely on it so heavily, and that other agriculture pays much less for revenue? Nope. Hell, whadya expect - I'm a liberal! Who says we liberals have any solutions? We just bitch about what's wrong in the world - that's our jobs, right?

In all serious, I think a solution could be found, but it would likely involve pouring more money into Afghanistan to do so. With our current mess with Iraq, coupled with our lovely deficit going out of control, this is a highly unlikely scenario. So hey, chasin' the dragon's gettin' cheaper and cheaper, I guess!

Disclaimer: In no way do I support our current drug-war methodology. I am merely arguing a point.

Jesus Occ, you had to grab cannibisnews? You always have to go to extremes, man? You're killin' me here!

Opium story here too


Opium economy in Afghanistan

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