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-- For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

From a Human Rights watch report on Saudi Arabia http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/saudi/

Some 121 Saudi citizens and non-Western foreigners were executed by beheading in Saudi Arabia in 2000 after convictions for murder, armed robbery, rape, drug trafficking, and other offenses, according to statistics compiled by the Reuters news agency. At least seventy-five people were beheaded in 2001 as of mid-November, according to the same tally. The Saudi Interior Ministry routinely announced the executions but provided little information about the trials of these men and women, including the evidence that judges found had determined their guilt.

The Saudi Ministry of Information stated on its web site that "Saudi Arabian opinion is that capital punishment is the most effective way of safeguarding the most basic human right: the right to life. It places a high value on the life of the murder victim and, as evidence of that high value and as a deterrent to others, it exacts a high price from the murderer." The ministry did not address the fact that Saudis and foreigners have been beheaded not only for murder but for nonviolent offences such as "sorcery" and drug trafficking.

The June 2000 execution of an Indonesian maid, Warni Samiran Audi, drew criticism from Indonesian government officials and caused an uproar among Indonesian nongovernmental organizations (NGOs). Samiran Audi was executed for allegedly killing the wife of her Saudi employer. The Indonesian embassy in Riyadh was not officially notified of the execution, according to Din Syamsuddin, the director general for labor in the Manpower Ministry, although Indonesian officials had followed the maid's case for three years, seeking her release or a reduced sentence.

In cases involving foreigners, governments rarely if ever publicly raise fair-trial concerns or engage in other vigorous public advocacy on behalf of their nationals, prior to or after their executions. But a sharp rise in the number of Indians beheaded on drug-related offenses (from one in 1998 to twenty-four in 2000, according to the Indian ambassador in Saudi Arabia) prompted some Indian officials to press for a government investigation of the duping of Indian migrant workers, mainly from the state of Kerala, by drug dealers posing as job recruiters. Authorities became aware of the practice following a complaint from the mother of a twenty-year-old carpenter, who she claimed was tricked into carrying drugs into Saudi Arabia. He reportedly was arrested at the airport and beheaded in 1995.

Associated Press correspondent Anwar Faruqi described the scene at public beheadings in an article published on April 24, 2000:

"Policemen clear a public square of traffic and lay out a thick blue plastic sheet about 16 feet by 16 feet on the asphalt. The condemned, who has been given tranquilizers, is led from a police car dressed in his own clothing. His eyes are covered with cotton pads, bound in plaster and finally covered with a black cloth.

"Barefoot, with feet shackled and hands cuffed behind his back, the prisoners is led by a police officer to the center of the sheet and made to kneel. An Interior Ministry official reads out the prisoner's name and crime before a crowd of witnesses.

"A soldier hands a long, curved sword to the executioner. He approaches the prisoner from behind and jabs him with the tip of the sword in the back so that the prisoner instinctively raises his head.

"It usually takes just one swing of the sword to sever the head, often sending it flying about three feet. Paramedics bring the head to a doctor, who uses a gloved hand to stop the fountain of blood spurting from the neck. The doctor sews the head back on, and the body is wrapped in the blue plastic sheet and taken away in an ambulance."

Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Punishment: Flogging and Amputations

Saudi courts continue to impose cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment, including amputations of hands and feet for robbery, and floggings for lesser crimes such as "sexual deviance" and drunkenness. The number of lashes, not clearly prescribed by law, varies according to the discretion of judges and ranges from dozens of lashes to several thousand, usually applied over a period of weeks or months. A court in Qunfuda sentenced nine Saudi alleged transvestites in April 2000: five drew prison terms of six years and 2,600 lashes, and the other four were sentenced to five years and 2,400 lashes. The floggings reportedly were to be carried out in fifty sessions, with a fifteen-day hiatus between each punishment. In February 2001, a court reportedly sentenced a captain in the Saudi army to seventy lashes because he used a cellular telephone on a domestic flight.

Amputations have also been reported in Interior Ministry statements. In September 2000, the right hand of a Bangladeshi man was removed after he was convicted of robbing pilgrims at Mecca's Grand Mosque. In August 2000, Okaz reported that a court ordered the surgical removal of the left eye of Egyptian Abd al-Muti Abd al-Rahman Muhammad after he was convicted of throwing acid in the face of another Egyptian. The operation was performed in a hospital in Medina. In addition to this punishment, Abdel Rahman was reportedly fined U.S. $68,800 and sentenced to an undisclosed prison term.

No Religious Freedom

The government is intolerant of religious diversity. Restrictions on religious freedom apply to Saudis and foreigners alike, and any demonstration of religious affiliation or sentiment is forbidden except for Muslims who follow the austere Wahhabi interpretation of the Hanbali school of Sunni Islam, a doctrine promulgated in the mid-18th century. The kingdom's Shi'a Muslim minority suffers particularly acute discrimination in matters relating to their religion and culture. This in turn has perpetuated discrimination in other areas such as public-sector employment, education, and lack of access to positions in the judiciary, the security forces, and the military officers corps. Wahhabi clerics have historically viewed certain Shi'a religious rituals as polytheistic and thus heretical, and Shi'a public religious practice is tightly restricted, particularly the mourning celebration of Ashura. The state restricts the private construction of Shi'a mosques and traditional religious community centers (husayniyyat). Shi'a religious seminaries are not permitted, and Shi'a religious scholars have been arrested, tried secretly, and sentenced to long prison terms.

In April 2000, Ismaili Shi'a clashed with Saudi security forces in the southwestern province of Najran. According to some reports, the violence was precipitated by the arrest of an Ismaili cleric from Yemen whom authorities alleged was practicing "sorcery," while other accounts said protesters took to the streets after religious police raided an Ismaili mosque, confiscated its books, and closed the facility. Scores of Ismailis were reportedly arrested in the aftermath of the disturbances and some continue to be detained. In a statement publicized in the international media on December 9, 2001, Ismaili elders from Najran called on the Saudi government to release ninety-three imprisoned Ismailis, including seventeen who they said faced the death penalty ``for opposing the condition of degradation, repression and humiliation that is practiced against them and their tribesmen by Saudi authorities because of their faith.''

Public worship by non-Muslims is banned in the kingdom and places of worship other than mosques are not permitted. The government maintains that non-Muslims are free to worship privately but authorities have arrested participants in private religious services deemed too large. Foreigners suspected of proselytizing Muslims have also been arrested, sentenced to prison terms, and deported.

----- Essentially it is not hard to see why these individuals resort to cutting off other human beings heads off, Saudi law itself supports the mentality, along with its radical Islamic teachings.

Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan ----- Essentially it is not hard to see why these individuals resort to cutting off other human beings heads off, Saudi law itself supports the mentality, along with its radical Islamic teachings.

i can see the reason or the whys, but im not going to say that some cultures are different the others and we should accept it. This type of behaviour has got to be stopped.

these beheadings will continue to happen whether or not we change the whatever excuse they do it for. that is why we must first stop the procedure before stopping the reason they do it.

Re: Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

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Originally posted by Izzy i can see the reason or the whys, but im not going to say that some cultures are different the others and we should accept it. This type of behaviour has got to be stopped. these beheadings will continue to happen whether or not we change the whatever excuse they do it for. that is why we must first stop the procedure before stopping the reason they do it.

No doubt it will continue, it is the most shocking way that these degenerates can find to express themselves and they will continue to do it because it gives them a lot of attention from the world media and even support from parts of global society.

I agree that it's no wonder that the psychoes go for beheading when the Saudi government practices it itself, but I really cannot see why beheading should be any more viciuos or cruel than the electric chair, hanging, garroting, etc? Now, stoning someone to death, that's barbaric.

Well perhaps hanging is the most pain free mode of executin stated here, as i understand it you dont actualy suffocate but rather brake your neck and die instantly. BTW whats garroting?

Oh and about the stoning...yes that is bad...or shall i rather say fucked up, that will describe it a bit betther i think.

garroting:
Originally the term meant the act of strangulation by means of an iron collar mechanically tightened around the victim's neck to cause death. It also means the act of strangling to produce unconsciousness or death to facilitate robbery.


I seem to remember that Spain used to use this as execution method, although more countries have tried it. I believe the condemned is fastened in a chair (a la electric chair), a string is put around his or her neck, whose ends are then wound together by a lever on the back of the chair.

Re: Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy i can see the reason or the whys, but im not going to say that some cultures are different the others and we should accept it. This type of behaviour has got to be stopped. these beheadings will continue to happen whether or not we change the whatever excuse they do it for. that is why we must first stop the procedure before stopping the reason they do it.

Why does AMERICA has to keep on getting into some other countries business/cultures, and try to change it as the WAY america sees it right?!?!.. Is their DAAMM CULTUREE..

Meh, an execution is an execution. Beheading is probably more painful than hanging or the electric chair, so I guess they could switch to some quicker method, but it's not that an electric chair is a pleasant feeling either.

As behedings go i hear that the gilliotine (spelling?) was basicly pain free (not that anybody who expirienced it can voice his opinion on the subject), however i get this funny feeling in my neck whenever i think about it

tranceaholic: thanks...after your explanation i remembered that there was a garrow wire (or something like that) in the hitman games

Re: Re: Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Why does AMERICA has to keep on getting into some other countries business/cultures, and try to change it as the WAY america sees it right?!?!.. Is their DAAMM CULTUREE..

Cultural relativism is no excuse for state-sanctioned brutality. It shouldn't matter what language you speak, what race you belong to or what part of the world you live in, beheadings should be considered brutal and immoral (if not, as trancaholic said, any more brutal than electrocution) and should not be excused as mere cultural quirks.

Nonetheless, Saudi Arabia has had a massive problem with human rights for a long time and this shouldn't be forgotten. The west (including, but not restricted to, the US) has stood by and "overlooked" human rights violations perpetrated by the Saudi state over many decades, including brutal executions, torture, abuse and denigration of women and so on, in exchange for stable relations (mainly concerning oil and military bases). The point is, every case made against Iraq by George Bush in his SOTU address (including massive human rights violations, funding extremist Islamic terrorist groups, attempting to purchase nuclear weapons etc.) could have also be made against Saudi Arabia - there was even a tenable connection there to 9/11 as well.

If the west wishes to retain the moral highground it seems to think it's entitled to, then it can't just indifferently, yet actively, fund attrocities such as these. If the Saudi royal family sees nothing wrong with funding Wahabi extremists or chopping body parts off suspected criminals, then perhaps we can make them see the error of their ways by hitting them where it hurts - economically. C'mon, we invaded Iraq for much less, why not try out sanctions on the Saudis? Am I looking at this the wrong way? Is there any reason why I should be funding this shit every time I fill up my car?

Re: Re: Re: Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Cultural relativism is no excuse for state-sanctioned brutality. It shouldn't matter what language you speak, what race you belong to or what part of the world you live in, beheadings should be considered brutal and immoral (if not, as trancaholic said, any more brutal than electrocution) and should not be excused as mere cultural quirks. Nonetheless, Saudi Arabia has had a massive problem with human rights for a long time and this shouldn't be forgotten. The west (including, but not restricted to, the US) has stood by and "overlooked" human rights violations perpetrated by the Saudi state over many decades, including brutal executions, torture, abuse and denigration of women and so on, in exchange for stable relations (mainly concerning oil and military bases). The point is, every case made against Iraq by George Bush in his SOTU address (including massive human rights violations, funding extremist Islamic terrorist groups, attempting to purchase nuclear weapons etc.) could have also be made against Saudi Arabia - there was even a tenable connection there to 9/11 as well. If the west wishes to retain the moral highground it seems to think it's entitled to, then it can't just indifferently, yet actively, fund attrocities such as these. If the Saudi royal family sees nothing wrong with funding Wahabi extremists or chopping body parts off suspected criminals, then perhaps we can make them see the error of their ways by hitting them where it hurts - economically. C'mon, we invaded Iraq for much less, why not try out sanctions on the Saudis? Am I looking at this the wrong way? Is there any reason why I should be funding this shit every time I fill up my car?

Yes your right, but they've been doing that for so long. They were borned, and have seen that done since they were borned. And as far as I know, beheading is an instant death.. Electric Chair is a lot more brutal then be-heading to me.

All I can say is that this war has lead no where near good. It's brought more brutality, more enemies, more terrorists.. and things like this are ugly to see or accept, but WE as outsiders must understand their values, cultures ( For hunddres of years ).. Slavery was once seemed normal to the american people, but as time progressed, it was seemed as brutality, but in it's times it was a normal thing, wasn't it?!?.. well, this people are stuck in their times.. and yes, they are hard headed to progress... Im getting off road here.

The main thing here is the following. This war has prompted for all this mess, is all I gotta say.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: For all wondering about Saudi Arabia and beheadings read up.

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Yes your right, but they've been doing that for so long. They were borned, and have seen that done since they were borned. And as far as I know, beheading is an instant death.. Electric Chair is a lot more brutal then be-heading to me.

I'd believe that a Guillotine is probably somewhat "painless", however, having your head cut off over the course of 15 seconds with a large pocket-knife is probably excrutiating and far from "instant".

Borned is not a word; it's born. For a second I thought you said "boned".

quote:

All I can say is that this war has lead no where near good. It's brought more brutality, more enemies, more terrorists..

Has brought more brutality and violence in the near-term, with the goal of preventing brutality and violence on a much larger scale in the long-run. The fact is, we're dealing with these people now head-on(pardon the pun), so the conflict is much more confrontational. Whether or not the longer-term strategy works obviously remains to be seen, but I am an optimist and believe people ultimately want peace and happiness, not poverty and opression.

Maybe that is the problem in general - Thinking short term and not long term.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose As behedings go i hear that the gilliotine (spelling?) was basicly pain free (not that anybody who expirienced it can voice his opinion on the subject), however i get this funny feeling in my neck whenever i think about it tranceaholic: thanks...after your explanation i remembered that there was a garrow wire (or something like that) in the hitman games

I think that the brain is alive for several more seconds after the head is cut off.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I think that the brain is alive for several more seconds after the head is cut off.

Except since it would be severed from the spinal cord I wonder what type of pain, if any, would be felt. Would you just have a bad headache or something?

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Except since it would be severed from the spinal cord I wonder what type of pain, if any, would be felt. Would you just have a bad headache or something?

Depends if the nerves are connected to the part below or above the separation point. I guess you'd first feel some pain from the nock on the head when it hits the ground and then get a bad headache because of the drop in the spinal fluid pressure, and then get dizzy and unconcious as the blood pressure drops.

I used to get migraines.

About people dying from beheadings: I read somewhere about a French scientist/philosopher who was executed at the guillotine, and which turned his own execution into a scientific experiment. He was supposed to blink his eyes slowly for as long as he remained conscious, which was something like 14 blinks - suggesting that decapitation does not result in instant death.
When the romantic Madame Roland where executed she put on quite a performance, which caused the executioner to hold her head out to the crowd and slap it. This caused her to blush.
From these two examples, I gather that the severed head is fully capable of functioning, except for speech and other abilities which originate in the remaining part of the body. Therefore, if behaeding was connected with much pain, I would think that severed head would show signs of pain.
People who has been to the electric chair has their skin boiling, which have resulted in them having to wear special suits without buttons, as these would melt in the heat. Now unless the electric current in some way prevents nervesignals to be sent to the brain, that has got to be really painful.

I read the terrorist have kidnapped Kenny...



Omg they just killed Kenny and are now selling t-shirts of the decapitation...

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