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Making drums?
Hello,
I use SX and Battery to make drums. However, how do you guys using similar software (RMIV, DR-008,.., midi seqencers) go about making drums? I mean, what is the process you go trough?
This is what I do:
- create one instance of battery
- load all the samples into battery
- create a number of midi tracks, each triggering a single pad(sample) on battery. So lets say in battery i have kick on pad#1, hat on pad#2, clap on pad#3, and snare on pad#4. Therefore, i will have 4 midi tracks where first midi tracks only does kick, second does hat, third clap, and fourth snare.
Considering that trance is all about good transitions where there are volume changes, panning, new sounds introduced, etc, what would be the best approach to producing drums? Do you think that my way is ok?
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
if it sounds good, it is good
less thinking, more producing !
anyway, if I'm working software I have one midi channel per drum sound, with hw sequencing (considering I have 24 channels) it's sometimes better to put some drums at the same channel. Just work the way you like to work
superddman, have you though about using a drum map rather than having a midi channel for each sample. It can make things a lot easier once you know how to use them.
I think Dez's point is that if you don't split your bassdrums from your toms from your hihats, you're gonna be in a world of hurt when it comes to mastering and EQing that sucker!
not exactly 
my setup is rather complicated, I have a sw+hw setup for singles and a hardware only setup for live pa's. For sw+hw songs I have drum maps in my soft sampler but for my hardware channel I run them over the 16 channels I have for my hw sampler (thru my patchbay) so I can automate everything over the 16 channels (keeping in mind that my kick and hats mostly comes out of my soundcard's outs that's more then enough). For hardware only songs I only have 24 channels so I have to use drummaps sometimes as it's easier to use (and you don't have 25 fingers to mute/unmute realtime) (unless you're some kind of freaky mutant)..
eq-ing comes different when using hw as you have a limited entry of inputs on the mixing desk, so I sometimes eq them before I send them to my sampler thru scsi.
hope that explains 
Just like Digital Aura said, i have them separate because then I can have more control over each individual sound when equing or adding effects.
Cheggy: you said to use drum map, do you mean something like "GM Map" in cubase or there are better ones out there? But even using drum map, don't you still have to have separate midi tracks to have better control over each sound?
Dezma: thats a cool setup you got. Too bad i don't have that type of hardware.
Drum Map is actually GM Map in Cubase SX.
I still cant get my Drum Machine work in Drum Map so I used Piano Roll. 
i use only one midi track for almost the whole drums/percs... BUT it's not like Digital Aura said! each drum sampler supports multiple audio outputs.. so you can control every output for his own.. (1 output for the bassdrum, one for the OH, .....)
so long
cYrus
You make your own Drum map for your own sampler setup obviously. I don't use one myself although I did give it a go and it was nice to have everything on the screen with all channels labeled "kick" or "snare" or whatever rather than c1 and f#3.
My workflow is the following:
1. I load one instance of battery on SX (for example with 5 stereo channels)
2. I create one folder track and 1 or 2 group tracks.
3. I create a separate MIDI track for Kick, Snare/clap, OHH, CHH, and tribal stuff.
4. All these MIDI tracks are routed to battery and configured as drum tracks (GM Drumkit). Also I usually group them in the folder track to use them more easily.
5. In the batt pads, I usually load kick on the first, clap on the second, then ohh, hh (several sounds, to get an stereo sound) and congas, tablas,... If I like getting more hi-freq on the kick, I load in the lower pad, a hi-freq sound like a hi-pitched tom or hat. To construct my ideal clap, I normally load several samples in the same column: a soft and long clap, a hard attack snare, ...
6. Bass, Kick and sometimes clap too routed to one group and compressed together. If you like a harder sound, try compressing all drums together instead of only kick and bass but you'll loose a lot of dynamics. If you compress hi-freqs sounds like ohh, chh, clap, separate you'll get a smooth sound, less aggressive.
7. FX in single tracks: compress again kick on its own track, add some reverb or slapback delay to clap/snare, a chorus/phaser/flanger fx to hh, and reverb/rhytmic delay to tribal rhythms.
That's my basic setup but no one of my drums is just like other mine.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shockwavedj My workflow is the following: 1. I load one instance of battery on SX (for example with 5 stereo channels) 2. I create one folder track and 1 or 2 group tracks. 3. I create a separate MIDI track for Kick, Snare/clap, OHH, CHH, and tribal stuff. 4. All these MIDI tracks are routed to battery and configured as drum tracks (GM Drumkit). Also I usually group them in the folder track to use them more easily. 5. In the batt pads, I usually load kick on the first, clap on the second, then ohh, hh (several sounds, to get an stereo sound) and congas, tablas,... If I like getting more hi-freq on the kick, I load in the lower pad, a hi-freq sound like a hi-pitched tom or hat. To construct my ideal clap, I normally load several samples in the same column: a soft and long clap, a hard attack snare, ... 6. Bass, Kick and sometimes clap too routed to one group and compressed together. If you like a harder sound, try compressing all drums together instead of only kick and bass but you'll loose a lot of dynamics. If you compress hi-freqs sounds like ohh, chh, clap, separate you'll get a smooth sound, less aggressive. 7. FX in single tracks: compress again kick on its own track, add some reverb or slapback delay to clap/snare, a chorus/phaser/flanger fx to hh, and reverb/rhytmic delay to tribal rhythms. That's my basic setup but no one of my drums is just like other mine. |
The first option: 2 subgroups with a compressor each one. You can also compress separately, but I think that the main intention to compress several tracks together is to "integrate" them, to achieve a "consistent" sound. Soft sounds are not benefited by compressing them with fast attack (necessary for kick and bass) since it'll give a kicky feeling that is not recommended for hats. Think of it like two paths: one for low-freq, punchy percussive sounds, and the other for soft, mid-hi-freq sounds (from open hats to leads or chords).
Anyway compressing is not always a good idea as you are loosing dynamic range (a mix should be able to show both low levels and high ones).
PS: Be carefull when working with groups on Cubase SX 1, since groups are not latency compensated you could get a unpleasant surprise. Compressors like C1 add a little delay that is not perceived with soft attack sound, but very noticeable with fast attack sounds like kick, bass, claps. Possible solution: add a third group where you send all tracks not sent to the first 2 groups. In this track add the same plugin but not working (dont use bypass mode), or simply, estimate the delay and add a delay compensator plugin.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shockwavedj The first option: 2 subgroups with a compressor each one. You can also compress separately, but I think that the main intention to compress several tracks together is to "integrate" them, to achieve a "consistent" sound. Soft sounds are not benefited by compressing them with fast attack (necessary for kick and bass) since it'll give a kicky feeling that is not recommended for hats. Think of it like two paths: one for low-freq, punchy percussive sounds, and the other for soft, mid-hi-freq sounds (from open hats to leads or chords). Anyway compressing is not always a good idea as you are loosing dynamic range (a mix should be able to show both low levels and high ones). PS: Be carefull when working with groups on Cubase SX 1, since groups are not latency compensated you could get a unpleasant surprise. Compressors like C1 add a little delay that is not perceived with soft attack sound, but very noticeable with fast attack sounds like kick, bass, claps. Possible solution: add a third group where you send all tracks not sent to the first 2 groups. In this track add the same plugin but not working (dont use bypass mode), or simply, estimate the delay and add a delay compensator plugin. |
I stopped making my songs in reason and progressively migrated to cubase (firstly rewiring then... bye bye reason). I love the sound of the reason synths (mainly substractor) but the compressor is so annoying that finally I abandoned it. I really admire people that get the control over dynamics in reason... it's an awesome task.
Compressing kick and bass together let's you obtain a compact sound where at the end of kick the bass grows and fill that gap. Including clap, this can mask and push kick down, but sometimes this gives you an interesting rhythmic sound.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shockwavedj I stopped making my songs in reason and progressively migrated to cubase (firstly rewiring then... bye bye reason). I love the sound of the reason synths (mainly substractor) but the compressor is so annoying that finally I abandoned it. I really admire people that get the control over dynamics in reason... it's an awesome task. Compressing kick and bass together let's you obtain a compact sound where at the end of kick the bass grows and fill that gap. Including clap, this can mask and push kick down, but sometimes this gives you an interesting rhythmic sound. |
That's right.
The most important thing is that you find the way you feel more comfortable. There's no only one way to do things... Try it by yourself!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shockwavedj That's right. The most important thing is that you find the way you feel more comfortable. There's no only one way to do things... Try it by yourself! |
i dontuse drum maps or gm maps of any kind. i dont use samplers of ay kind. i just import into the sequencer and position the percs etc
i only compress clap and kick in reason..never saw any use for other instruments in reason.
Last couple of days i tried to figuring out this drumtrack.
http://members.lycos.nl/eendducky/drumloop.mp3
In the beginning i thought it was
K---K---K---K
----C-------C
--RR--RR--RR-
K=kick
C=Clap
R=Rimshot
But when i tried it myself the rimshot didnt sounded as it should be.
So know i think it maybe can archieved with lot of delay on the rimshot and have it like this:
K---K---K---K
----C-------C
--R---R---R--
I would appreciate it if someone could say if im right and if not could you please help me how to make this.
Thx in advance!
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