TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- bill cosby bashes blacks
Pages (2): [1] 2 »


Posted by Haunted on Jul-02-2004 07:01:

bill cosby bashes blacks

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/01/co...s.ap/index.html

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Bill Cosby went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for struggling black men, telling them: "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."

Cosby made headlines in May when he upbraided some poor blacks for their grammar and accused them of squandering opportunities the civil rights movement gave them.

He shot back Thursday, saying his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black community's "dirty laundry."

"Let me tell you something, your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other n------ as they're walking up and down the street," Cosby said during an appearance at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition & Citizenship Education Fund's annual conference.

"They think they're hip," the entertainer said. "They can't read; they can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

In his remarks in May at a commemoration of the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation decision, Cosby denounced some blacks' grammar and said those who commit crimes and wind up behind bars "are not political prisoners."

"I can't even talk the way these people talk, 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... and I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk," Cosby said then. "And then I heard the father talk ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

Cosby elaborated Thursday on his previous comments in a talk interrupted several times by applause. He castigated some blacks, saying that they cannot simply blame whites for problems such as teen pregnancy and high school dropout rates.

"For me there is a time ... when we have to turn the mirror around," he said. "Because for me it is almost analgesic to talk about what the white man is doing against us. And it keeps a person frozen in their seat, it keeps you frozen in your hole you're sitting in."

Cosby lamented that the racial slurs once used by those who lynched blacks are now a favorite expression of black children. And he blamed parents.

"When you put on a record and that record is yelling 'n----- this and n----- that' and you've got your little 6-year-old, 7-year-old sitting in the back seat of the car, those children hear that," he said.

He also condemned black men who missed out on opportunities and are now angry about their lives.

"You've got to stop beating up your women because you can't find a job, because you didn't want to get an education and now you're (earning) minimum wage," Cosby said. "You should have thought more of yourself when you were in high school, when you had an opportunity."

Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.

"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

Cosby also said many young people are failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.

"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"

Cosby also said he wasn't concerned that some whites took his comments and turned them "against our people."

"Let them talk," he said.


Posted by Yoepus on Jul-02-2004 07:50:

the modern black culture in the USA reminds me very much of modern Arab culture. They put the emphasis on the wrong virtues.


Posted by TuanAnh213 on Jul-02-2004 09:19:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
the modern black culture in the USA reminds me very much of modern Arab culture. They put the emphasis on the wrong virtues.


what are the wrong virtues of modern black culture?


Posted by biznology on Jul-02-2004 10:40:

i agree with Cosby in part - yet its not always that simple...


Arabs are another deal...

He is right on so many terms, but belittling his situation isnt likely to help. Bill Cosby hasnt and has never been considered part of the true environment. The Cosby Show has always been considered to be a copout to white culture and avoided the real problems inherent in true black culture. They arent 'in you face problems' but you cannot ignore them. Bill is right but not so realistic. Belittling people is not always the best response|


Posted by GODLESSCOMMIE on Jul-02-2004 10:49:

Well like the Arab culture they got a fair number of losers terrorists-thug/'gansta' I do whatever I want to whomever I want becuase I'm the king of this domain.(IRC chan ops often fall into this catagory, but they are just to weak to use muscles in real life)
dragging down peoples opinions of there culture(justifiable to a degree).

However black (cultural) ideal virtues would be best expressed by there pimp, and there old. Typically there women(learn this first and get the males in line) -- being chilled out/happy and getting women, and not being drudged down into the stupid male games(which blacks seem to be WAY to into in general that and demanding that blacks act like blacks and not to be an oreo (black on the outside white on the inside(someone I knew got that all the time once we started going to jr hi)).

mmm thats more like people in general... but blacks tend to carry a chip on there shoulder something fierce, if I'm ever in a bad mood around one they seem to think I'm being racist etc(again justifiable to a degree), and I do have to admit I'm much more on guard around full on black strangers as they tend to be bigger assholes stealing/threating/destroying others properity/etc. That and there damn territoral (see the first bit about kings of a domain) an example if I goto a gas station just north east of my house (dont think its even past austin(no city tax?)) I get the wtf are you doing here white boy looks. Another time this 12 year old kid with a baseball bat keep saying 'got a dollah?' 'gimme a dollah' Mind you I just had to stare down the little punk loser to get em to go away but still its just another example. If I had to live in a ghetto I diffently would not pick a black one. Much better for example to be in a mexican one where they only care about messing with each other. Someone I know's girlfriend got 2 of her tires slashed without any reason in his driveway in such a place(I jokingly tell him to put a sign saying proud member of the NRA in his lawn).

Arabs? seems more there whole culture is like that in some places, sponsered by the state even. think most of there problems come from being losers on the global scale = people are willing to die for pride(if you listen to what bush has been trying to persuade the iraqis of recently is that you should be gaining pride through fixing your country not blowing you and your fellow countrymen up(hence the army guys training people how to build things/ training iraqi police etc(guess this also fits in why the prision thing was such a huge deal to them)))


oh hadn't heard about that cosby thing, but my first impression is he's telling people to stop being losers(kinda why asians are 'blended in' 'assimilated' much better is that there viewed as winners(guess thats why americans are looking at them(japs esp) rather then europe alot of the time now))

(ug its early think I finally got all the huge grammer errors outta this)


Posted by George Smiley on Jul-02-2004 12:36:

quote:
However black (cultural) ideal virtues would be best expressed by there pimp, and there old. Typically there women

I wonder what Bill Crosby would have to say about YOUR grammar...!


Posted by GODLESSCOMMIE on Jul-02-2004 12:47:

did I claim to be good at grammer(or the whole english language in general)?, If your going to argue with me use something other then insults or be ignored.


Posted by Shakka on Jul-02-2004 13:23:

quote:
Originally posted by TuanAnh213
what are the wrong virtues of modern black culture?


How about 20" chrome spinners on your Escalizzade and wearing all of your bling on your teeth for starters?

However, I'm an avid fan of Bubb Rubb. Woooo Wooooo!


Posted by GODLESSCOMMIE on Jul-02-2004 13:56:

Thinking about this, I agree with the push to get rid of affirmative action as it just makes people think of blacks as a bunch of incompetent beggers(losers), generating huge amounts of resentment. No I don't agree with that overall. Though when you see people lacking basically all the skills required, getting 'free' rides to goto college for a year to smoke pot party and dropout irks people a bit for each case of it they see. Though there are victors of the program, I had 2 black kids in the class I was taing(is that a word?) for, compsci at NIU(nothernillinois), that would qualify as such. mmm guess that begs the question is it worth it? Mind you see alot of other kids also doing the same thing, but there wasting the opportunity thier(is this the right there?) parents gave them. I was going to use the Donovan McNabb as an example of this, but the more I search on google the more it fits in with black paranoia. Anyhow overall I feel it did have its place, but that was long ago. I like to think that meat is pretty much meat(though I do enjoy looking at certian cuts moreso then others), its culture that matters.


(dictionary.com just made another nickel off me...)


Posted by surferfb on Jul-02-2004 14:46:

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka

However, I'm an avid fan of Bubb Rubb. Woooo Wooooo!


that's only in the morning. you're supposed to be up cooking breakfast for somebody, so it's like an alarm clock.

wooooooooo woooooooo


Posted by BadBadNeil on Jul-02-2004 15:23:

Cosby isn't bashing blacks, he is just speaking the truth. I'm sick of the we don't get equal treatment crap, yet they make an effort in school to not care, to be hypocritial about calling people ******s, to blame white people for their problems, to consciously not speak english correct because its "cool", to have role models in faceless people such as rappers and drug dealers, to further separate races by making every problem a race issue, to take advantage of free college because of race (which they shouldnt have in the first place), etc.

I've seen lots of smart black people and know quite a few and they worked their asses off just like anyone else from another race and they got rewarded in kind. The black community needs to realize that hard work does equal success. In high school I remember the majority of dropouts and those in trouble were black and hispanic, even though in high school every student started off freshman year the same, yet they made an effort to not care and its a cycle.

I've lived in Savannah, GA and believe me that city is so divided racially its scary and I honestly believe that if the poor black people in that town worked hard in school, got a scholarship to college and went to any profession they wanted they would be successful yet day after day in town all you hear is about blacks killing blacks, drugdealing, crimes, stealing from the white students in town and you could see them hanging out around town trying to act hard to impress their friends.

Yes I have strong opinions on this because my family is hispanic and they worked their asses off to be successful and I've never hear them bitch once about white people holding them down. They learned, worked hard, and succeeded and that is all people need to do.


Posted by osuracnaes on Jul-02-2004 15:49:

I can't stand how some of these people claim they're entitled to certain things. But when you look at it, there still are some prejudiced people, and minorites really don't have equal opportunities. One of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of things.

Example: my college has this policy of hiring a certain number of minority businesses. There are many instances where they choose an unqualified minority business over a qualified non-minority business only to meet their quota.

I'm not racist. I'm part of a minority - I know how it feels to be hated *cough*bush*cough*. Some of my better friends are black. It's just the people Cosby are talking about who give blacks a bad name - and there are plenty in Cleveland, OH. Most campus security reports describe suspects as black - the careless, reckless drivers are usually black - the people who ask me for money are black.

I just think it's kind of sad.


Posted by Shakka on Jul-02-2004 15:52:

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
Cosby isn't bashing blacks, he is just speaking the truth. I'm sick of the we don't get equal treatment crap, yet they make an effort in school to not care, to be hypocritial about calling people ******s, to blame white people for their problems, to consciously not speak english correct because its "cool", to have role models in faceless people such as rappers and drug dealers, to further separate races by making every problem a race issue, to take advantage of free college because of race (which they shouldnt have in the first place), etc.

I've seen lots of smart black people and know quite a few and they worked their asses off just like anyone else from another race and they got rewarded in kind. The black community needs to realize that hard work does equal success. In high school I remember the majority of dropouts and those in trouble were black and hispanic, even though in high school every student started off freshman year the same, yet they made an effort to not care and its a cycle.

I've lived in Savannah, GA and believe me that city is so divided racially its scary and I honestly believe that if the poor black people in that town worked hard in school, got a scholarship to college and went to any profession they wanted they would be successful yet day after day in town all you hear is about blacks killing blacks, drugdealing, crimes, stealing from the white students in town and you could see them hanging out around town trying to act hard to impress their friends.

Yes I have strong opinions on this because my family is hispanic and they worked their asses off to be successful and I've never hear them bitch once about white people holding them down. They learned, worked hard, and succeeded and that is all people need to do.


I have to agree with you, though I think you just opened an ugly can of worms. Someone is going to say that you're being racist because you're painting with broad strokes, which may be true to an extent, but one must acknowledge the distinct black culture that exists. Not the people--the culture that was largely created by them. I believe Eminem fits in there as well despite his skin color.

There are very distinct issues that Bill Cosby is referring to, and I'm glad he's speaking up because the argument is a lot more credible because the message is coming from an "insider" if you will.

It's sad that I feel more comfortable about my recent home purchase due to the fact that a lot of surrounding area is hispanic vs. black, but historically, my observations have taught me that hispanic areas tend to have harder workers while black areas tend to have more crime. I'm just calling it like I see it in my neck of the woods--not trying to offend anyone or make any personal attacks.


Posted by NYCTrancefan on Jul-02-2004 16:14:

As someone who is black, not born in the U.S.A but consider myself American from the standpoint that I came to America at 12 years of age and am now 24, I can care less about what Bill Cosby or anyone else has to say about the black community. The subject is one of many differing conditions. Sadly many blacks are fed a culture of bullshit through Hip-Hop music for starters, younger blacks primarily. Many see the videos marketed to them and believe that they have to get Iced out, bling-blinged, drive an Escalade or Navigator, have all the phattest gear, etc. All this mind you while still living in the projects or poor communities, Go figure.

I guess it is because I wasn't born in America that I don't have the affinity to "black hip-hop culture" as much as my friends do. It is true that blacks need to improve their own lot, after all no one will do it for them, certainly not "Bush" I find it ironic that the same black culture that Bill Cosby speaks of and that I don't care too much to embrace is marketed in Germany, France, England and over all other parts of the world as a kind of in-thing among young people. This is one black who doesn't ask for anything or expect anything from anyone more than what is due to each and every American citizen. As far as I am concerned what the fuck is race.


Posted by nialsjd on Jul-02-2004 16:16:

I applaud Cosby for standing up for his own community to try and reform it, even at the cost of losing trust with his own culture. I admit that me, as a hispanic, have been too afraid to make comments about the african american community (especially the youth) because i would be labelled as a racist for making comments. I'd always expected the final pin to be knocked down by someone like O'Reilly, who occassionaly makes a few hints every few weeks about the african american community. It's time someone looked at their own culture and admitted its faults, and to come up with solutions to save its face.

Myself, i am still too scared to stand up for my hispanic community and ask for it to be changed, that we aim higher in education and succeed better in careers. As a 17 year old in high school, i still saw many hispanics who didn't even know how to turn on a computer, yet they knew exactly the colors of each gang in their territory. The other day i went to hollywood video and the only new movie i saw dealing with hispanics was about a mexican gang defending itself in the rough streets of los angeles. Do i still have to rely on Selena, an age old movie, to promote to other cultures that deep in the hispanic community that we can stick together and succeed?

anyways, i stand behind the stregnth that cosby has for his own community.


Posted by Shakka on Jul-02-2004 16:44:

Case and point(probably marketed by some "white" guy exploiting "black" culture)


Posted by imokruok on Jul-02-2004 17:06:

Current CNN.com poll. Pretty surprising results, I think. Unless you assume that everyone on the internet is white.
quote:


Is Bill Cosby justified in his recent criticism of some segments of the black community?

Yes, justified 98% 149662 votes

No, not justified 2% 3355 votes

Total: 153017 votes


Posted by Yoepus on Jul-02-2004 17:37:

its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community.

They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune.
They hate success by merit.

It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time.

The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life.

Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have.

Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out.

When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself.

The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.


Posted by Shakka on Jul-02-2004 18:07:

I hate that we generalize with the term "hip-hop" when a lot of it stemmed from things like 'gangsta rap' and the likes of Suge Knight, Easy E, and the like. The Fat Boys were harmless rappers. I think what we see now is the legacy of guys like Tupac, Biggy Smalls, and the like.

I'd say the culture that stemmed from gangsta rap is now infecting the hip-hop culture. Guys like Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, even Cypress Hill--they work hard to put out original music with solid lyrics(most of the time) and are having their image being degraded by a culture that embraces the things that Yoepus described above. Hell, it's so easy for a rapper to go get a record deal, put out shit music and get a huge financial advance for it--it's not hard to see why the quality of the culture has degraded so much.

But give me my Q-Tip, I love that shit! Lyrics to Go, Electric Relaxation--those are classics that must remain untainted by the likes of Fiddy Cent, Busta Rhymes, Nelly, Jay-Z and the rest of those clowns.


Posted by nialsjd on Jul-02-2004 18:34:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community.

They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune.
They hate success by merit.

It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time.

The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life.

Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have.

Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out.

When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself.

The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.


probably the best post i've ever seen in Political Discussion forum.


Posted by NYCTrancefan on Jul-02-2004 18:45:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
its quiet simple to state the issues with the black community.

They hate education. They truimph success by violence and fortune.
They hate success by merit.

It wasn't always like this. Hip-hop although not the cause is a symptom of their messed-up culture and is a good defining point. Previously 'black' music was Blues, Jazz, Gospel all with good points on life. Blacks worked hard to liberate themselves. But they quit once they did. I don't know why this happened. But blacks used to be the best, and hardest workers. Now they are some of the worst and laziest. I don't know why their culture changed, but I know it has. And if it has change so quick (just one generation) to something so differenet, then it should be plausible to think it can change once again in short time.

The black culture has changed from the "blues" culture - remeber the culture blacks used to have. They were always well dressed in nice fitted posh suits and beautiful hats, with wise words and kindness, (think James Bond when he was in Lousiana.. can't remember which one that was), their celebration and love of life.

Today they are the "hip-hop" culture, baggy unfitted, overgrown gangasta cloth, more bling and less brain than a man should have.

Once blacks, as Cosby voices, triumph new virtues - educaiton - hard work - proper manners and respect, they will lead to success. Right now its cool to be dumb in black culture - blacks who go to Ivy leauge, get corporate jobs, and are intelligent and productive parts of American society are considered 'sell-outs' and 'oreos' as was pointed out.

When the intelligent, successful black-man of the 'corporate world', productive, responsible, well-rounded is the image triumphed by black society - and not the gangsta I kill and rap mo betta than you image the society will correct itself.

The question is how can the black community change their heros? I don't have the answer for that. And even if I did, they wouldn't listen to me. It must come from with in their own community. They must have the desire to see their problem (admitting you have a problem is the first step...) and the desire to correct it. I believe Bill Cosby is doing this.


The only hope is that like all music Hip-hop evolves with time to a more positive footing. As I am typing this right now some guy is walking outside my window blasting some expletives from Jay-Z, I kid you not

I hear you about the old school black music though sadly Rap dominates the value system of many young blacks today, I know this for a fact being black and seeing for myself. One of my close friends got a new job, purchased a used car and put in an expensive speaker system, new flashy rims and blasted his music loud, until one day it was stolen from a hospital parking lot where he parked it.


Posted by DrUg_Tit0 on Jul-02-2004 19:57:

I mostly agree with Cosby and Yoepus, so I won't add much there. I am afraid, though, that it is not just the black community that is influenced by the trend, although they are affected the most. More and more people from other cultural backgrounds are embracing that "culture", which is rather worrying. I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.


Posted by imokruok on Jul-02-2004 20:31:

quote:
Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.


I hope so too, but I don't see it happening. It's outlived a lot of other trends and continues to grow. Who ever thought we'd see Snoop do an AOL commercial?

Though, I was happy today to see some people understand the situation. On FOX News they have a daytime show which is half a news show, and half a variety/talk show. They had a guest on - Leo Terrell - who is a black attorney and enjoys making his points by shouting at the top of his lungs and taking every remark to the end of its logical extension.

When the host of the show asked a black member of the audience to comment, she made a very cogent argument about how it's all about the family, and current black culture does little to teach children about the importance of family. So Terrell jumps in and starts ripping her for not understanding black culture and misunderstanding her own race.

The woman in the audience on the show had a better handle on things than this guy who purports to speak for the black community. It's hopeful because despite all of the racial demagoguery that goes on, this woman had obviously "figured it out." I wish there were a lot more like her.


Posted by TuanAnh213 on Jul-02-2004 23:03:

quote:
Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
I really hope it's just a stupid trend that will pass away soon.


just another stupid trend? maybe in the direction its taking today but hip hop has been alive since the 70s starting in Brooklyn, NY so its not just a "trend" its a culture


Posted by Psionic on Jul-03-2004 02:28:

Not to be racist or anything, but Bill Cosby is my new hero (no sarcasm).


Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.