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The great MP3 vs Wave challenge

The great MP3 vs Wave challenge

*** WARNING : 3-5MB PCM FILES - dial up user's have been warned ***
*** Only for the exceedingly bored, or the exceedingly audiologically talented***

There's no debate. MP3 is a lossy medium. But where the debate rages is whether the loss can be heard. Certainly a low bitrate coded MP3 will sound awful, but most MP3's I've seen are coded at 192kB/S.

So here I present to you the great MP3/Wave challenge :

Three short snippets of three tracks have been recorded.

Each snippet repeats twice.
One of the two snippets is a pure PCM wave (44.1kHz stereo), the other is an MP3 (192kB/S encoded). 192kB/S has been chosen as a lesser format might make it too easy.

Can you really hear the difference ?

Make up your own mind :


Track 1 : 5MB
Track 2 : 3MB
Track 3 : 3MB


Files selected are not trance.


Methods :

-Tracks were imported to Cubase as a WAV file.
-Selected segments were cut and pasted into their own new project, retaining full wave characteristics.
-This segment was then exported as an audio mixdown in MP3 (192kB/S 44.1stereo)
-This MP3 was then re-imported into the new project
-Both WAV and MP3 now sit side by side
-on my mood, the sun, the stars and fudge factor phi, I put the WAV on the left or the WAV on the right.
-Finally the two are exported as one WAV file

Able to hear the details ?


*** There are no dummy answers. One is definately a wave. One is definately an MP3. None of these present as both MP3 or both WAV ***


Want the solution ?

Download it here in text format (1kB)

It is rediculous to have three different songs (IMO). It ruins any "scientific listening". Instead of one variable (sound quality), there are two (sound quality, and track).

es

Oh well, was just doing it coz I was bored. NM then.

quote:

Originally posted by Swing Oh well, was just doing it coz I was bored. NM then.

Eh it is a good idea, I'd make another one with just one song, and try that out.

es

Nice idea there..

Would have a look but I know that I can't point out which is mp3 and which is wave cause my ears are fcuked..

It is a good idea

I'd like to test this as well...

I agree....make it the same song. Only one problem.
It'll be easy to tell because of the filesize right?

How do you proceed then without the filesize giving it away?
You have to use more than one song. RIGHT.

Back to square one then, arent we.



Just for fun though, I listened to all three and thought that they all sounded pretty good as far as quality...so I'd have to disagree with you about the MP3 being a lousy medium. I think it's still the best way to go!
I mean, if the quality is that difficult to differentiate then the MP3 format can't be all that bad now, can it?

Re: It is a good idea

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura I'd like to test this as well... How do you proceed then without the filesize giving it away? You have to use more than one song. RIGHT. Back to square one then, arent we.

The filesize doesn't give it away.. Because each file has an mp3 and wave sample.

And also because they're all wave files therefore despite the quality of source media the wave files "encoded" with same sample rate are equally sized (if the lenght is same)
=)


(Wondering if that makes any sense... Insomnia is not the best thing to have)

Re: It is a good idea

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura I'd like to test this as well... I agree....make it the same song. Only one problem. It'll be easy to tell because of the filesize right? How do you proceed then without the filesize giving it away? You have to use more than one song. RIGHT. Back to square one then, arent we.

IF the file sizes aren't the same... just don't look at the sizes. Case closed.

es

I guesstimate the audiable difference between an MP3 encoded at 192kb/s(44100Hz) and an equvilent wav file can only be determined by advanced frequency analysis software, and even then the differences would be minimal to null(and thus definitly non-distingusihable by the human ear)

I suspected that might be the case.

So, why does everyone flame MP3's so much ?

Well some mp3s I've downloaded are mastered better then my CDs (So I'm definitly not one of those who flames mp3s). My argument about sound quality however doesn't lie in the medium the sound is encoded in, but rather the mastering of the particular track.

Here's an example or a classic trancer, that I've just ripped off two seperate cd's. One of the cd's sounds terrible, while the other one sounds slightly better(but still badly mastered).

So c'mon, which sample do you think sounds better. The first or the second?

TROY SAMPLES 438kb

Oh yeah, sample 1 is off a gatecrasher experience cd, while sample two is off a cream anthems cd.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob So c'mon, which sample do you think sounds better. The first or the second? TROY SAMPLES 438kb Oh yeah, sample 1 is off a gatecrasher experience cd, while sample two is off a cream anthems cd.

Rob...good points. You know much of the debate is still subjective. I happen to like the first sample because the "air is more open and the experience is wider". The synth sounds dirtier. I Like.
The second seemed to have more NOISE REDUCTION and some may like that better. So.. subjective...isn't it?

so.. how do we find out the answers? pm our guesses to you and you tell if its right?

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura Rob...good points. You know much of the debate is still subjective. I happen to like the first sample because the "air is more open and the experience is wider". The synth sounds dirtier. I Like. The second seemed to have more NOISE REDUCTION and some may like that better. So.. subjective...isn't it?

I too like the first sample And although being somewhat subjective, I doubt there will be too many people who prefer sample two. One of the reasons has to do with percieved loudness, and how the human ear will automatically favour the loudest "Average" sound, as apposed to a few really really loud peaks, but a lower average.

This is a screen shot of the first sample. It has a fair amount of hardlimiting, but not what I would think as enough.



Sample 2: No real signs of compression or hardlimiting at all, and definitly the weaker of the two. Sometimes I even wonder if this is actually mastered because it sounds horible wherever I play. All the upper freqencies are too quiet, and it seems that even things around you (like birds, other cars) are taking up the freqencies that the track should

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