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Fahrenheit 911

Cant see any posts on this..

Has anyone seen this film yet? Thinking bout going to watch it sometime this week, but wanted to know ure opinions.

Re: Fahrenheit 911

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Originally posted by tall paul 2 Cant see any posts on this..

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=194545

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=191130

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=186588

Re: Re: Fahrenheit 911

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Originally posted by BTG http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=194545 http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=191130 http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=186588

A Recnet Sudty at Camrbdgie Uniervsty..

I'm not going to see that shit. Michael Moore is a tree hugger.

Tree Hugger, you mean asshole/bigot/liar/person who completely changes the facts to suit his own purpose. Michael Moore seems to take on anyone in his films, yet does not do interviews without getting the questions beforehand and he declined to take on his biggest critic, one of the guys who runs one of the anti moore sites, love to see that debate, Moore would get his ass handed to him. I will never buy a moore book nor see a moore movie, what to see the kind of crap that this liar is allowed to try to present as fact. Joseph Goebbels said it best, you tell a lie long enough, the public will eventually believe it. I don't care what your political view of the US presidency is, hate bush, hate kerry or love either of them, frankly I can't stand either of them but making up crap should get you sued, not hiding behind the lame free speech protection.

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Originally posted by torontotrance Tree Hugger, you mean asshole/bigot/liar/person who completely changes the facts to suit his own purpose. Michael Moore seems to take on anyone in his films, yet does not do interviews without getting the questions beforehand and he declined to take on his biggest critic, one of the guys who runs one of the anti moore sites, love to see that debate, Moore would get his ass handed to him. I will never buy a moore book nor see a moore movie, what to see the kind of crap that this liar is allowed to try to present as fact. Joseph Goebbels said it best, you tell a lie long enough, the public will eventually believe it. I don't care what your political view of the US presidency is, hate bush, hate kerry or love either of them, frankly I can't stand either of them but making up crap should get you sued, not hiding behind the lame free speech protection.

www.moorewatch.com

From my experince from watching his movies is he basically doesn't lie, he just tells his opinion. If someone can please point out one part in Bowling for Columbine and/or Farenhiet 911 that is false or bended, please I really want to hear which fact was false. Every peace of information in that movie was either shown to you in the movie or someone who was interviewed said it. Moore just tells you what he thinks of those facts. Now, if any of those interviews were not liable, the documents were fake, or the footage of the politicians being really stupid were bended or edited, I just want to know which parts. Not taking any sides, I just want some facts.

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Originally posted by OurManFlint From my experince from watching his movies is he basically doesn't lie, he just tells his opinion. If someone can please point out one part in Bowling for Columbine and/or Farenhiet 911 that is false or bended, please I really want to hear which fact was false. Every peace of information in that movie was either shown to you in the movie or someone who was interviewed said it. Moore just tells you what he thinks of those facts. Now, if any of those interviews were not liable, the documents were fake, or the footage of the politicians being really stupid were bended or edited, I just want to know which parts. Not taking any sides, I just want some facts.

What your not understanding is that Fahrenheit 911 is doing more harm than good, and if Michael Moore was so 'strongly' opinionated, than he wouldnt be so scared to give an interview - the guy is a complete moron and should stay under a rock where he belongs.

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Originally posted by Vlad What your not understanding is that Fahrenheit 911 is doing more harm than good, and if Michael Moore was so 'strongly' opinionated, than he wouldnt be so scared to give an interview - the guy is a complete moron and should stay under a rock where he belongs.

But you didn't answer my question. I just want to know which facts were false. Maybe a couple facts were bended in a way, but they were still evidence that points more towards Moore's opinion. And this movie is doing much good showing that we are in the Iraq war for no reason except for the USA's Advantage. I think everybody who is going to vote should see this movie.

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Originally posted by gwrmarines I'm not going to see that shit. Michael Moore is a tree hugger.

Yes, that's right -- anyone who isn't on the far right must be a tree hugger!

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Originally posted by torontotrance Tree Hugger, you mean asshole

Ad hominems really don't help your case you know.

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bigot

What on earth are you talking about?

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liar who completely changes the facts to suit his own purpose.

It's fairly obvious that his films and books are la type of op-ed piece, it's called presenting a point of view. As for how it's possible to 'change the facts', care to explain how one would go about doing that?

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Michael Moore seems to take on anyone in his films, yet does not do interviews without getting the questions beforehand

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

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and he declined to take on his biggest critic, one of the guys who runs one of the anti moore sites

Actually, him doing that is perfectly understandable. Most of the anti-Moore sites are run by far-right nutters who spend most of their time launching personal attacks against Moore himself, rather than actually critiquing his books and films. When they do attempt to critique his books or films, they tend to end up doing the exact thing they happily accuse him of -- distort or misrepresent the facts.

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love to see that debate, Moore would get his ass handed to him.

Not to nit-pick, but unless you're clairvoyant, there isn't really any way to know how it would turn out.

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I will never buy a moore book nor see a moore movie

And here we have it -- TTA, you're behaving in an absurd fashion here. You're 'critiquing his films and books', launching personal attacks against him -- and you haven't even seen or read any of them.

This is unbelievable.

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what to see the kind of crap that this liar is allowed to try to present as fact.

If you've never watched any of his films or read his books, then how on earth would you know that he's a liar?

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Joseph Goebbels said it best, you tell a lie long enough, the public will eventually believe it.

And which lie in particular are you referring to here?

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I don't care what your political view of the US presidency is, hate bush, hate kerry or love either of them

Personally I don't hate either, but I wouldn't vote for Bush if my life depended on it. Kerry isn't particularly crash hot either, but hey -- ABB for me.

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frankly I can't stand either of them

Heh, understandable -- they're both politicians afterall.

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but making up crap should get you sued

You're a young earth creationist, right? I take it that you don't have any issue with me suing you then?

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not hiding behind the lame free speech protection.

Hold on, you originally accused him of distorting the facts

Now, with that out of the way -- I should make it known that I don't agree with all of Moore's conclusions (Indeed, in BFC he tends to ask questions rather than driving home a particular resolution to the gun issue), but the facts in Fahrenheit 911 are all on the record. A couple of them will invariably turn out to be off the mark, but the vast majority are effectively irrefutable.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

The above two links contain transcripts of what Moore says in the movie, with links to the sources used to obtain the information. If you'd like to critique the film, then cite something from the above site -- and refute it, but don't go around lambasting him for lying when you've never seen any of his films.

I've seen bowling for columbine, it is sad sack and I borrowed a friend's book of his recent pos and read a few chapters, just pure lies.

Issue with lies, you can't sue me for being a creationist, it is the freedom of religion, should I sue you for being an atheist (which I consider a complete lie) as well? It goes both ways and you can defend your hero if you want, he is a complete and utter bigot, every news piece, all he does just complete ranting. Matt Lauer asked him some tough questions and he dodged them, Daryn Keagan asked him some tough questions and went after him and he tried to change the subject. I'll dig up the questions ahead of time part later, it is true, he tried it with some news organization and they refused to do an interview. You can protect your hero Mr.Moore, I've seen enough of his work to completely avoid his work in the future.

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Originally posted by OurManFlint But you didn't answer my question. I just want to know which facts were false. Maybe a couple facts were bended in a way, but they were still evidence that points more towards Moore's opinion. And this movie is doing much good showing that we are in the Iraq war for no reason except for the USA's Advantage. I think everybody who is going to vote should see this movie.

Moore doesnt have an opinion, hes an attention whore. If he had an opinion he would give normal interviews.

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Originally posted by Vlad Moore doesnt have an opinion, hes an attention whore.

moore does have an opinion, one that i think answers most but not all of the questions that really need answering. Plus being an attention whore serves his purpose in conveying his message further.

plus, on your point on interviews, whats wrong with being able to make sure you have all the nessecary facts?

for example in a court case lawyers are given all the evidence before the trail (in most cases) to review thyem so that on the day they can make the best use of them.

If, in an interview with a right wing interviewer he forgot a piece of evidence which would have been conclusive in the debate but lacking that he lost the debate that would have led to an incorrect verdict being reached.

Plus i couldn't care less if everybody did it, because at least then debates would rely on facts rather than pointless rhetoric.

Good god. So no one can give me good hard evidence that what Moore showed in his film was fake, then I must conclude that even if Moore doesn't have an opinion like some say, the evidence in the film speaks for itself. If someone can come up with hard evidence, I'm all ears, because most of the arguments saying that Moore's facts are wrong are coming from far right-wingers, which is really bias. Ofcourse they are going to disagree with Moore and call him a liar, they are conservatives, it's in their blood to disagree with him. Even without Moore's opinion in the film, the facts in the film are strong enough to make your own opinion. Now if anybody has any spacific facts in the movie that are wrong, please say it fer christ sakes.

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Originally posted by torontotrance I've seen bowling for columbine, it is sad sack and I borrowed a friend's book of his recent pos and read a few chapters, just pure lies.

You've got me confused here -- in your previous post, you said the following: "I will never buy a Moore book, or see a Moore movie" Now you're claiming that you in fact have seen one of his movies. Which one is it?

Furthermore, can you please provide an example of a lie, and preferably a significant one that affects the overall message or central point he's trying to make -- I don't want to see something like the following: "He said it happened on the first of April, but it was actually on the seond of the month!"

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Issue with lies, you can't sue me for being a creationist

Agreed, just as you can't sue Moore. What you were doing, however, was advocating the altering of our legal system so that we can sue people who make things up. Since that's exactly what creationists do, if we followed your advice, I could sue you, and i'd win too � if we followed your legal reform plan.

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it is the freedom of religion

Just as what Moore does falls under freedom of speech.

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should I sue you for being an atheist (which I consider a complete lie) as well?

You're certainly welcome to try. Sadly though, it doesn't matter whether you consider it to be a lie, what matters is the evidence -- and the evidence is not on your side.

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It goes both ways and you can defend your hero if you want

I don't see what you're basing this on, I said in my previous post that I often disagree with Moore's conclusions -- and i'm probably further to the left than he is.

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he is a complete and utter bigot

What is your definition of a bigot?

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every news piece, all he does just complete ranting.

He's actually very calm in his films, I've never seen him rant. His Oscar speech was certainly impassioned, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a rant.

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Matt Lauer asked him some tough questions and he dodged them, Daryn Keagan asked him some tough questions and went after him and he tried to change the subject.

I've never heard of either of these people, so I won't comment here.

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I'll dig up the questions ahead of time part later, it is true, he tried it with some news organization and they refused to do an interview.

Okay, i'll look forward to reading it. Your accusation that he gets the questions before every interview would seem to be a bit preposterous, particularly since he's had a few press conferences recently where he got asked a few things that I doubt anyone would actually deliberately stage. His interview with Franken on Air America didn't seem at all staged either.

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You can protect your hero Mr.Moore

I have to ask you, did you actually read my last post? Do you understand the meaning of the word hero?

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I've seen enough of his work to completely avoid his work in the future.

I don't know, you yourself have said two completely contradictory things regarding what you've seen or read of his stuff, so i'll wait for clarification here.

Haven't seen the film myself so its not fair for me to comment on it. But thought I'd post this here as it was sent to me a few days ago:

56 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11:

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fif...renheit-911.htm

Thought you may enjoy the read

You people really are ignorant and that movie is doing what its supposed to do... brainwash. Im gonna say this again, that movie is going to do more harm to the US than good - this movie could be the basis for terrorist training camps - talk about giving the terrorists, muslim extremists, and just plain old muslims a reason to bomb us.

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Originally posted by Vlad You people really are ignorant and that movie is doing what its supposed to do... brainwash. Im gonna say this again, that movie is going to do more harm to the US than good - this movie could be the basis for terrorist training camps - talk about giving the terrorists, muslim extremists, and just plain old muslims a reason to bomb us.

What on earth are you talking about? Sure, disagree with the movie, but how the heck do you get to 'this movie is going to make terrorists attack us'?

Do you have any non-conspiracy theory fuelled rationale behind what you just said?

This movie has the potential to be used to recruit people to join terrorist cells, honestly... all this movie does is add fuel to the fire.

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Originally posted by Vlad This movie has the potential to be used to recruit people to join terrorist cells, honestly... all this movie does is add fuel to the fire.

who the fuck lit the fire in the first place?

Yawn, all this talk about a movie and no one mentioned any details of anything in either of the two movies I saw by Michael Moore. Damn you people, get INFORMED about the subject of which you speak BEFORE you CRITIQUE.

BTW, listen to talk radio or Fox News if you want to hear shamelessly right wing propaganda spewed out relentlessly. Shit and the right wing is ALWAYS ANGRY too. And anger is WEAK, it shows a LACK OF CONTROL over one's emotions, it is only useful for ONE thing, and that is as a SMOKESCREEN. Besides I hate to hear rich men WHINE, BITCH AND COMPLAIN about taxes, which means I can NOT stand the right wing, PERIOD.

My advice... Watch Farenheit 9/11. Take a look at some of the ideas presented, the Saudi Royal connection to the Bush family, the Florida election scandal, the double talk about Iraq.

Simply observe the information without judging it, and THEN come to your conclusion after you have recieved the information.



----------- BTW here's a good one for you nut bags

- Just a few weeks ago I heard a series of news stories about how Al Queda is planning to disrupt the upcoming election. (WWII & the civil war couldn't even do that)

- Now I'm reading stories about how Tom Ridge is saying we might have to delay the elections in the event of a terrorist attack.

Fact : Al Queda is NOT planning to disrupt elections, this can be inferred on the basis of the news I have been reading over the past two weeks. The ONLY parties that CAN disrupt US elections happen to be the UNITED STATES. AL QUEDA HAS NO POWER OVER US, UNLESS WE GIVE IT TO THEM. THINK ABOUT THAT OVER YOUR CIGAR.

Fact : It seems that Tom Ridge is more interested in disrupting elections since he is the one who wants to postpone them... AND he is USING terrorism as an EXCUSE to DO SO. Here we have what is called a TRAITOR to the REPUBLIC. Remember, AL QUEDA HAS NO AUTHORITY OR JURISDICTION OVER US ELECTIONS. APPARENTLY TOM RIDGE thinks OTHERWISE, SINCE THE US GOVERNMENT OPERATES ON AL QUEDA TIME, NOT EASTERN STARDARD TIME.

Fact : George Bush is trailing in the polls, he desparately needs SOMETHING to get his numbers back up. Watch for either another terror attack or a sudden dip in gas prices at the pump.

My Opinion : The right wing is DANGEROUS, PERIOD, do not mess with these people, they are ANGRY, BITTER, & also RICH & POWERFUL. Never trust an angry rich guy, period. I look for STRENGTH in leaders, not bitterness or anger.

And for cryin out loud, read "The Prince" by Machiavelli. You guys need a better understanding of people with POWER. Then again no one in this entire thread posted even one thing that occurred in any of MOORE's films so understanding here is quite lacking. Then again most of the people in America that VOTE REPUBLICAN are people in the boonies with less access to information, and where most get their news from blatantly biased TALK RADIO. (AKA, RIGHT WING NEWS)

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I'll make it simple. Cite something that Moore claims in Farenheit 9/11 or Bowling for Columbine, and PROVE it FALSE. Do NOT get ANGRY, get INFORMED. ANGER is for the WEAK and MANIPULATIVE.

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Originally posted by Pheobius If, in an interview with a right wing interviewer he forgot a piece of evidence which would have been conclusive in the debate but lacking that he lost the debate that would have led to an incorrect verdict being reached.

Dude, I wouldn't give a right wing interviewer the time of day, because the entire right wing in America is full of itself. Rich pampered idiots who have nothing to do but whine about how they aren't getting their fair share are absolutely pathetic in my book.

I respect the enlightened side of the right wing that isn't about reducing taxes just to get votes. Or for that matter, giving Al Queda control over US elections by saying we might have to postone the elections in the event of a terror attack. George Bush is the WORST president in American history, he takes the most vacations, which could be better spent improving his god awful language skills. (There are some GREAT clips of Bush's lack of language skills in Farenheit 9/11)

I honestly can't believe this pathetic weakling of a president even made it to the governorship in Texas, let alone the white house. His leadership skills are the worst since Carter, although Carter had better policies in spite of the recession caused by the oil embargo.

Historians and scholars are already writing Bush off as a collosal failure, and guess what, historians and scholars know something. These people are FAR more enlightened than the average hick that put Bush in the white house.

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