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harmon mixers and 'energy' transitions

i tried the search, but it sent me to hell n back, so anyways.... this is for harmonic mixers only please, also all my knowledge of it came from the camelot system i spose too, so here we go;
sometimes when im transitioning to my next song the energy has a tremendous boost, and sometimes it seems to drop off, though they both sound good, i mean, they are of the right range of keys needed to mix, but sometimes the energy just changes so dramatically up or down, and i was wondering if there is any known theories on this. such as, when going from 1a to 3a if there is usually a build in energy, or from 3a to 1a a usual drop of energy. i was just wondering. i would try this myself, but i am away for the summer so that is impossible. any one have any ideas? or do you all think it just matters from song to song? any knowledge or theories would be appreciated! thanks-

yeah... but i was asking from a sole instrumental perspective i spose. without the words or really the melody being involved just yet...

First bit of advice.

Stop doing transitions between 3a to 1a.

A better way of doing it is if you try going from 4a to 1a. Simple rule is to just take 3 from what ever number you are on. In most cases you get a nice little lift. You can also add 4 to what ever number you are on.

Experiment with it a little and see what you find.

The other way you usually get a lift is if you go down the camelot scale. So go from 5 to 4 then 3 etc.

This should give you some information and some freedom to start jumping around your record box and creating energy.

There is always a lot to be said for picking the right type of song to follow but you will discover that no doubt.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 First bit of advice. Stop doing transitions between 3a to 1a. A better way of doing it is if you try going from 4a to 1a. Simple rule is to just take 3 from what ever number you are on. In most cases you get a nice little lift. You can also add 4 to what ever number you are on. Experiment with it a little and see what you find. The other way you usually get a lift is if you go down the camelot scale. So go from 5 to 4 then 3 etc. This should give you some information and some freedom to start jumping around your record box and creating energy. There is always a lot to be said for picking the right type of song to follow but you will discover that no doubt. Cheers Nem

Ugh, I'm really glad that I don't consciously have to think about keys when I'm mixing. I have a bit of a musical background, so I just go by what sounds "right" or "wrong" when it comes to mixing tracks with different keys (which is particularly crucial when you spin trance).

I think the actual track structure would contribute to the overall energy of the transition...simple tracks that have an intro 32, break 16 then the song would be easy to mix into(just slam the bass out and in)...tracks that have a constant bassline all the way to the first breakdown would be more ideal to up the energy; given it's the right key, there's no stoppage for a break.
Example: Max Graham - Coastline into SanderVanDoorn - Punk'D(Original)

quote:

Stop doing transitions between 3a to 1a.

why not? explain why not, the following quote is from the camelot sound page at www.harmonic-mixing.com

quote:

ADVANCED TECHNIQUE #2: MODULATION MIXES As explained in the Harmonic Keys Overlay Chart, a modulation mix provides exciting results by jumping a half step or whole step on the chromatic scale without significant changes in speed. For example, a half step jump (seven keycodes) may be from E-Flat Minor (keycode 2A) to E-Minor (keycode 9A). A whole step jump (two keycodes) may be from E-Flat Minor to F-Minor. This type of mix can give quite a tangible lift to the energy on your floor. CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to overlay bass lines/melody in modulation mixes, only percussion segments of one source. Make sure the mix is complete when the new bassline/melody starts. Following the same procedures you can also modulate from a minor to a major key, or vice versa.

if i am understanding what they're saying, it is ok technically to mix from 1a to 3a or vise versa, if im wrong, please clarify so i understand why.


EDIT:
nem, i give you the more credit than most anyone on these boards, as you seem to post most respectfully and knowledgably, so ill take your word on what you say more than likely, or at least give it a shot. but... (enough unecesary praise from a stranger...) i was under the impression only a 1 number jump up or down, 2 number jump up or down, or a 7 number jump up or down, (of course with the proper bpm ranges into consideration) were technically proficient. the camelot sysytem doesnt mention anything about a 3 or 4 number jump from their charts. im not saying there is never a technically proficient example of a 3 or 4 number jump, but this is just summarizing im taking it as.

You know, all this harmonic theory and key numbering is useful for technicalities and such, but when it comes down to it, are you gonna use an equation to up the level, or are you gonna use your common sense and feel of the crowd and music to determine where your mix is going?
I myself am trying to learn harmonic mixing, and a textbook method like Camelot is fine and works, but in the end, like everything else, it all comes down to how you apply it and how you utilize what you know.
To me, the theory and mechanics of harmonic mixing is like calculus...you can memorize every equation in the book, but when it comes to test time...what good is your knowledge if you can't use it?

jjin-jja-lo!!! eh!!! to that ...

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