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Commercial versus Underground

People who listen to trance are highly opinionated, and have different preferences....

But one thing is for sure... WE seem to be split up into two categories... those who listen to things like Wild FM, Skitz Mix, Ministry of Sound, and others who prefer listening to music by certain artists eg. Magik VII (Tiesto), Nyana (Tiesto), Next Level (George Acosta), Reflections (Paul Van Dyk), 76 (Armin) and live mixes. Etc.

From my knowledge, the difference between these groups is that one is commercial, whilst the other is underground.

I've heard of many differnt explainations of what commercial Trance, adn Underground trance is. SOme say underground is apart from the mainstream music. Others say that commercial music is where your gunning for money, with as many sponsors as possible.

I already know of many people who vow to hate commercial trance. I'm curious to hear people's explanations as to what they think the definitions of underground and commercial actually is.

hmm... to start off, i think very little trance is underground any more, but aside from that, you can't hate something just because it's commercial IMO. you hate it because you think it's bad. would you hate a delicious cheeseburger just because the masses love it as well? in my opinion, commercial music, in general, doesn't necessarily have to be of less quality, rather just have a more generalized style that may appeal to more people rather than just a specialized group that have an acquired taste.

i love house music for example, and even though i'm a picky mother****** for the most part, the is a lot of commercial house i can take, and even enjoy, to make an example.

now, commercial trance could be a tricky term. generally, everything bad gets catalogged as commercial, but for the most part, commercial is synonymous to cheese. so what we in fact hate is the cheesiness, rather than its attribute of commerciality, perhaps.

my point is, i for one, hate it if it's bad. if it's commercial, and yet it's still good (which is VERY rare, but still happens from time to time) i may very well like it. of course, if you're serious about the music, it's a strange occurence to stay listening to the commercial side of things and not evolve into a specific area of that which you like.

I don't make a big bone about these two terms (and some others like "mainstream" for that matter), but for me... I'm an odd bird. I listen to all sorts of stuff over the map. Not to mention I've seen those certain artists featured on many a MoS, or Godskitchen, or Cream, or Gatecrasher, etc. compilation. I'm not even sure I could consider a superstar like Tiesto to be underground by absolute means -- compared to Britney, maybe, but how big is she compared to Ayumi in Japan, for example? That I do not know.

Ahhhhhh so I like keeping it simple:


-"underground" for me is a transient term.

Like, "train passing by". Noteworthy artists were at one time, ALL underground. (And yes, several years ago, no one heard of Avril Lavigne either.) Just like how we were all babies. No one escapes that, although some people like to perpetually be "young at heart", some DJs just don't like having too big a profile. That's their choice. I respect that. But I don't respect it when some "underground" person trashes the popular echelon all flamey. I'm like "Shhh buddy, you choose what works for you, PvD will do what's right for him!"


-"commercial" is often linked to "popularity" but I see it as music that is made solely or primarily for $$$ gain with little or no attention paid to the rich culture surrounding EDM.

I can't judge other people's hearts but there is greed out there hoppin' bandwagons or slagging off stuff *unless* it gets profitable, and a lot of knockoffs like Kate Spade bags. This doesn't only extend to the outer limits of trance music, by the way. Of supersaws and stutter-glitches, even IDM/Braindance have people who are so interested in remaining "underground" that they deliberately sort of generate this inverse sine wave of their reverse psychology beaming back at the spotlight like a mirror, and having it all reflect back in . . . showing that types of electronic music, and general music for that matter, ain't that different after all.


You think a dog or a cat could tell the difference?

Cheers.

None of the music you listed is underground.

actually it's cheese vs trance.

(for example) suburban train is commercial and i loved it and many other also.

but it just so happend to be 90% of the commercial dance tunes are cheese, lasgo, sammy etc.

So you mite wanne ask, why call cheese trance then?\

My answer would be, it is not my fault that these tunes end up in the: "Traaaaaance the ultimate collection" CDs

why don't you just listen to good music instead?

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast None of the music you listed is underground.

Seconded, Ministry of Sound underground? Hahah

it depends how you look at it..in the bi picture, trance is basicly all underground, its not very big in the world (other than some of Europe).
i would say underground would be mainly your local djs? small djs and producers, premoters etc. the people who are lowest on the dj charts, but not specificly the worst, here in vancouver there is lots of amazing talent, but there are not known. so i guess underground is how you view the scene, and how you relate to it.

just my $0.02

If the music is being sold, it's commercial.

This is turning out to be a very educational thread...

DOes anyone else find that the people who often listen to stuff like MOS, Gatecrasher etc. Usually aren't into trance as such as thier favourite music?

Also.. does anyone esle find that in some of such labels (though some of the music is refreshingly good), a lot of music is just cheap remixes of pop songs... Vocals trying to sound cool, and tough, in getting the party started... Does anyone else find that a lot of the music is very.... flat.... IT doesn't seem to have uplift, progression, climax or anything... it's just high energy party music...

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay Also.. does anyone esle find that in some of such labels (though some of the music is refreshingly good), a lot of music is just cheap remixes of pop songs... Vocals trying to sound cool, and tough, in getting the party started... Does anyone else find that a lot of the music is very.... flat.... IT doesn't seem to have uplift, progression, climax or anything... it's just high energy party music...

Yes, you just described a cheese track

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery If the music is being sold, it's commercial.

thats technicaly true, but im sure you also know thats not the point of this discussion, but promo cds from local djs and unknown producers, those can be sold and perchased, without it being commercially known..with your statment up above..according to that, this thread is really meaningless then

Re: Commercial versus Underground

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay People who listen to trance are highly opinionated, and have different preferences....

I'd say most are ignorant

and as stated, if it sounds good...listen to it.

I wouldn't necessarily say that a person who happens to be opinionated is ignorant. They could be that way because of their experiences, i.e. jaded. If someone is ignorant, it's because they developed that opinion without knowing otherwise. It's like they say this music sucks or that music sucks, but never listened to it. Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Lotus I wouldn't necessarily say that a person who happens to be opinionated is ignorant. They could be that way because of their experiences, i.e. jaded. If someone is ignorant, it's because they developed that opinion without knowing otherwise. It's like they say this music sucks or that music sucks, but never listened to it. Just a thought.

that's what I meant.

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast None of the music you listed is underground.

word

I'm just saying that if you're looking for underground music, good luck coming to one of the top 100 most popular internet message boards to search for some.

Re: Commercial versus Underground

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay People who listen to trance are highly opinionated, and have different preferences.... But one thing is for sure... WE seem to be split up into two categories... those who listen to things like Wild FM, Skitz Mix, Ministry of Sound, and others who prefer listening to music by certain artists eg. Magik VII (Tiesto), Nyana (Tiesto), Next Level (George Acosta), Reflections (Paul Van Dyk), 76 (Armin) and live mixes. Etc. From my knowledge, the difference between these groups is that one is commercial, whilst the other is underground. I've heard of many differnt explainations of what commercial Trance, adn Underground trance is. SOme say underground is apart from the mainstream music. Others say that commercial music is where your gunning for money, with as many sponsors as possible. I already know of many people who vow to hate commercial trance. I'm curious to hear people's explanations as to what they think the definitions of underground and commercial actually is.

\

Dude, no offense.. but stfu. Ok.

quote:

Originally posted by Abhay DOes anyone else find that the people who often listen to stuff like MOS, Gatecrasher etc. Usually aren't into trance as such as thier favourite music?

Not necessarily(sp?), I used to listen to all those compilations, because that was all that was available to me, and trance has been my fave for about five years now. First it was the MoS and Euphoria comps, which have a lot of europop (DJ sammy etc.) on them, then i moved on to the Gatecrasher, cream, Godskitchen comps, which i would say have proper trance on them as opposed to europop and shite vocal remixes of proper trance tunes (i.e 643(loves on fire)). Now I dont really buy compilations, sometimes buy artists albums (Just Be and Reflections), but the rest i get on vinyl or by other means.

Not really anyhting to do with the thread, just responding to abhay's quote (not having a go BTW, just my experience)

I listen to what I like and usually it falls into something that is not quite commercial. I cannot stand songs for the most part that everyone listens to. If my non EDM friends know about it, I figure it has reached cheese status. I'll listen to what I like and you are pathetic if you say that trance people are highly opinionated, I am highly opinionated and I understand the concept well. It is not what kind of music you like, it falls into what type of person you are, not your music preferences.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Yes, you just described a cheese track

My definition of a cheese track was one of those ones that make a track sound very... feminine... like sweet love vocals, and a sweet, really smooth, highly melodic sound in the background.

Has it occured to anyone that I might not have anything against strong opinions?
{HINT HINT.... I have some of my own}

Here in AUstralia, people have a tendency to listen to only music that is "cool". All of my friends that listen to what they call "techno", don't like Electronica as their favourite sort fo music. I find they all listen to those collectoins like Gatecrasher and Cream.

By the way Moondog, I love that gif you have... Where'd u get it... and do u mind if i get it off u (too late).

cant remember where i got it from, and yeah, feel free to nick, just dont tell 'freak', he'll go apeshit

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