TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- More records that Kerry doesn't want you to see..
Pages (2): [1] 2 »


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-16-2004 23:12:

More records that Kerry doesn't want you to see..

Well he doesn't want you to see:

His wifes full tax records
His military medical records

and now..

His attendance records from being on the

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/...15/123604.shtml

A Bush-Cheney campaign commercial set to debut on Monday accuses Kerry of being absent for 76 percent of the Intelligence Committee's hearings, noting that he was completely AWOL for the entire year after the 1993 World Trade Center attack.

Seems like he could easily dispute this claim by releasing the attendance records.. so why doesnt he?



Before this guy ran for president.. what did he do with all that free time?????

Can u defend Kerry or will you all begin to talk about Bush.


Posted by ZinG on Aug-16-2004 23:17:

also he doesn't want u to see what he drank on the morning of May 8th 1981


Posted by LiquidX on Aug-16-2004 23:26:

.... Neither the amount of times he has to go to the bathroom and POOP!! OMFG.. damm with this, Im reluctant, skeptical now.. I guess I should go Bush now, I mean, damm, with all that, Bush is an Angel next to him!


Posted by imokruok on Aug-17-2004 00:00:

Kerry's campaign didn't even have a proper response for Bush's ad today. They stated that Kerry put in a great deal of time as vice-Chair of the committee. Only problem was...Kerry wasn't vice-Chair. Bob Kerrey was! They can't even get their own candidate's history straight.


Posted by hardcore trancer on Aug-17-2004 00:11:

quote:
Originally posted by imokruok
Kerry's campaign didn't even have a proper response for Bush's ad today. They stated that Kerry put in a great deal of time as vice-Chair of the committee. Only problem was...Kerry wasn't vice-Chair. Bob Kerrey was! They can't even get their own candidate's history straight.


omg are you serious??? hahaha


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-17-2004 01:00:

quote:
Originally posted by imokruok
Kerry's campaign didn't even have a proper response for Bush's ad today. They stated that Kerry put in a great deal of time as vice-Chair of the committee. Only problem was...Kerry wasn't vice-Chair. Bob Kerrey was! They can't even get their own candidate's history straight.

Yea i saw that on Msnbc today....I was laughing my ass off.


Posted by Renegade on Aug-17-2004 07:56:

Hey speedracer_mec, here's a thought - instead of presuming that John Kerry has led a secret life that he wants to keep from all of us, why don't you try judging the man on his policies and start threads about that instead? Wouldn't this make more sense than making spurious claims about Kerry's private and senatorial life ad ignorantiam? Are you saying that Bush has never kept any of his files secret from the public and would this ever make you think twice about voting for him? Has he ever shown us the medical records, for instance, proving definitively that he's been able to break his addictions to alcohol and cocaine?


Posted by D-res on Aug-17-2004 08:48:

finally i see something thats AGAINST kerry, and then renegade goes off and ruins it

sorry t all you "I HATE BUSH" pricks, but bush IS an angel compared to kerry. the bush administration does have some questionable ideas, but i am most definately a bush supporter over kerry. i hate john kerry. I mean, just looking at him i see evil. even when he's smiling he looks like he is giving you the evil eye. and for all of you that arent too smart, im not just saying i hate kerry cause of how he looks.

does that ^^^ look like a nice person to you?

oh yeah, and conans impression of kerry...priceless. if someone can find a picture, please post it.






check out this webpage for some jokes about kerry that
were said on late night tv shows


Posted by Renegade on Aug-17-2004 09:57:

Yeah, because voting against someone based on how they look is the foundation of every healthy democracy isn't it?

I'll say it again:

quote:
why don't you try judging the man on his policies


Posted by Shakka on Aug-17-2004 13:53:

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Yeah, because voting against someone based on how they look is the foundation of every healthy democracy isn't it?

I'll say it again:


Name me some bills he's sponsored or some real accomplishments he's had in his career and then I'll haev more to judge him on. So far he's run almost exclusively on his Vietnam experience and I've seen little other substance that would sway me to support him for any reason.


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 15:39:

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Name me some bills he's sponsored or some real accomplishments he's had in his career and then I'll haev more to judge him on. So far he's run almost exclusively on his Vietnam experience and I've seen little other substance that would sway me to support him for any reason.


How's this one - he helped start the hearings to bust the asses of those guilty Conservatives who took part in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Damn, no wonder those guys don't like him much - 1/2 those ******s are in Bush's Administration now.


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 16:13:

John Kerry, the man who uncovered Iran-Contra
The Democratic nominee has a long record of fearlessly exposing abuses of power -- including launching the investigation that unraveled the worst scandal since Watergate.

By Sidney Blumenthal



July 22, 2004 | John Kerry's political education is far deeper than that of senators who have merely legislated. He has journeyed to the heart of darkness any number of times and emerged to tell the tale. It is not simply that the commander of the Swift Boats unit with which Kerry served in Vietnam was the model of the bloodthirsty, bombastic colonel in "Apocalypse Now." Kerry's combat experience hardly ended in the Mekong, but moved into the dangerous realm of high politics.

From his first appearance on the public stage, giving voice as a decorated officer to the antiwar disillusionment of Vietnam veterans, when President Nixon and his dirty-tricks crew targeted him, Kerry has uncovered cancers on the presidency, and this is especially why the Bush administration fears him. He has explored the dark recesses of contemporary history, often without political reward or even acknowledgment. Tarred as a "flip-flopper" by Bush's $85 million TV ad campaign, Kerry in fact is one of the most consistent political leaders of his generation. The truth is a vivid and unbroken line, but only sketchily known.

In his first month as a senator, in January 1985, Kerry discovered the thread that would unravel the Iran-Contra scandal -- the creation of an illegal, clandestine foreign policy apparatus run out of the National Security Council by President Reagan's military aide, Oliver North, and directed ultimately by CIA director William Casey. Kerry had the training and instincts of a prosecutor and was informed by his Vietnam experience. As the first district attorney of Middlesex County (Boston) in Massachusetts, he had smashed the local Mafia. "A central part of my campaign had been the notion that I would bring to the Senate the experience of the Vietnam period, which cautioned me against the kind of illegal activities we were hearing about, and the things that were going on," Kerry explained later. "Literally, I did do an ad hoc investigation."

Kerry surrounded himself on his staff with tough, intelligent and independent-minded investigators, and he ordered them to follow the trail. In south Florida, they found men accused of drug running who were shipping guns to the Nicaraguan Contras and claiming to have been instructed to do so by the National Security Council. They tracked down a Contra advisor in Costa Rica known as "Colonel Flaco," who had evidence that North was involved in financing the Contras with Colombian drug money. The path led further to Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega and to Saudi funding sources. Kerry won support from Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to launch an official investigation in large part because of the drug aspect. (Since Vietnam, concerned about the destructive heroin addiction of many veterans, Kerry had keenly followed the geopolitics of drugs and CIA complicity.)

North learned of Kerry's work and told the Secret Service and the FBI that Kerry was protecting a possible presidential assassin. The FBI harassed "Flaco," subjected him to a polygraph and determined he was no threat, but he was intimidated into silence. Republican staffers leaked information about Kerry's investigation to the Reagan White House and Justice Department. An assistant U.S. attorney in Florida, prosecuting a case based on Kerry's leads, was ordered by the Justice Department to drop the matter. Then Kerry's top aide was falsely charged with ethics violations and investigated by the Senate ethics committee, which later concluded the accusations were empty. Conservative media published stories claiming Kerry was attempting to force witnesses to commit perjury. "Expensive, Extensive, in Vain," ran a headline in the right-wing Washington Times. Virtually the entire Washington press corps dismissed Kerry's effort as a fantastic delusion and ignored it.

In October 1986, Kerry questioned the neoconservative assistant secretary of state for Latin America, Elliott Abrams, who brazenly lied about foreign funding for the Contras. It was this testimony that led in time to Abrams' pleading guilty to a felony. (He was pardoned by the elder Bush and is now the NSC's chief for Middle East policy.)

A month later, the Iran-Contra story broke in a Lebanese newspaper. However, Kerry was excluded from the congressional investigating committee for the sin of having been prematurely right. As consolation, he was given chairmanship of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations, where he plowed ahead. After three years, he reported that "individuals who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking, the supply network of the Contras was used by drug trafficking organizations, and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers. In each case, one or another agency of the U.S. government had information regarding the involvement either while it was occurring, or immediately thereafter." His report also noted that "officials in the Justice Department sought to undermine attempts by Senator Kerry to have hearings held on the [Contra drug] allegations."

Kerry's work on the Contra-drugs connection led him to discover a link to Bank of Credit and Commerce International, an operation that was a front for drug running, money laundering and terrorism. He launched an investigation that exposed its criminal "corporate spider web," as his report put it, in 1992. His report pointed to new areas that should be investigated: "Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies."

For decades, Kerry has pursued a persistent and cumulative investigation into the underside of national security and terrorism. If the Democrats had held the Senate for a sustained period of time, Kerry's work would have borne more fruit, and it is even conceivable that his proposal to regulate the netherworld of money laundering, which was not enacted, would have helped stymie al-Qaida.

From Vietnam onward, Kerry has probed the inner recesses of government, grasping that good intentions are never enough and that the system doesn't work automatically. He has experienced the abuse of justice; had his patriotism impugned; battled enemies foreign and domestic; tried to restore accountability; and fought on, down to today, which is why he is running for president.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumen...04/07/22/kerry/


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 16:14:

Nice little comparison between Cheney and Kerry:

quote:
Kerry-Edwards Fact Sheet: Dick Cheney's Legislative Accomplishments ... Both of Them

8/3/2004 5:32:00 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk, Political Reporter

Contact: Chad Clanton or Phil Singer, 202-464-2800, both of Kerry-Edwards 2004

WASHINGTON, Aug. 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following is a fact sheet from Kerry-Edwards 2004:

"Cheney's voting record was slightly more conservative than mine." -- Newt Gingrich, Washington Times, 7/25/2000

George Bush loves to attack John Kerry's legislative record. But the fact is that 57 bills and resolutions Kerry sponsored passed the Senate and countless others have been improved because of his work, including the Clean Air Act, the Children's Health Insurance Program and the COPS program. In addition, Kerry has taken on the special interests and won. He fought against Newt Gingrich's anti-labor and anti-environmental regulatory reform, he has fought to raise the minimum wage, and he has worked to shut down wasteful corporate subsidies.

Congressman John Spratt (D-SC), ranking member on the House Budget Committee, made the following remarks on a call today:

"Dick Cheney served in the Congress for 11 years. I served with him for most of these years. In that time, he only passed two bills. One was to build a flood plain on the Colorado River and the other was a bill to help a constituent. What's even more telling about Dick Cheney's record in the House is not what he supported but what he opposed - things like Headstart and funding for seniors. It seems pretty dishonest for Bush and Cheney to be attacking John Kerry - who passed 57 bills in the Senate - for his legislative accomplishments."

Here, for comparison is a summary of the legislation sponsored and passed by Vice President Cheney during his 11 year legislative career.

Cheney's Legislative Career by the Numbers

96th Congress: 4 Sponsored; 0 became Law

97th Congress: 4 Sponsored: 0 became Law

98th Congress: 8 Sponsored: 0 became Law

99th Congress: 7 Sponsored: 1 became Law (H.R.1246: A bill to establish a federally declared floodway for the Colorado River below Davis Dam.)

100th Congress: 7 Sponsored: 1 became Law (H.R.712: A bill for the relief of Lawrence K. Lunt.)

101st Congress: 1 Sponsored: 0 became Law

FACTS ON JOHN KERRY'S LEGISLATIVE RECORD

John Kerry has a distinguished legislative record. He and John McCain negotiated an agreement with Vietnam to provide a full accounting for POW-MIAs. He wrote the first bill reducing acid rain. He has repeatedly led the charge in protecting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from drilling. He has passed legislation that shut down money laundering activities of terrorists and drug traffickers.

President Clinton Praised Kerry for Putting 100,000 COPS on the Street - "When we tried to get past six years of talking tough on crime but nothing happening, rhetoric and rhetoric and rhetoric and no action, to put 100,000 police on the street, to ban deadly assault weapons to pass the Brady bill, the other side, (the Republicans) led the fight against it. But John Kerry helped us pass the toughest, smartest, best crime bill this country has seen in many a day, and the crime rate has gone down for four years in a row. John Kerry was on the right side of history." (Public Papers of the President: Fall River, MA; 8/28/96)

Democratic Leader Tom Daschle Says Kerry Knows How to Get the Legislative Job Done in the Senate - Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle had kind words for John Kerry's work on Campaign Finance Reform when he asked Kerry to chair the Democratic Steering Committee: "From our teen-smoking bill to HMO reform and Campaign Finance Reform, John Kerry has demonstrated that he clearly knows how to get the job done. He is a valued and trusted member of our leadership team, and I am pleased he has accepted another term as Chairman of the Steering and Coordination Committee." (Daschle Press Release, 11/19/98)

Even Dr. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader Says Kerry's Global AIDS Legislation is a "Huge Step Forward": "'The Kerry- Frist bill is a huge step forward," said (current Majority Leader Bill) Frist. "It further validates U.S. leadership in the global effort to end devastation many countries face in the fight against HIV/AIDS'." (Office of Senator Frist, press release 7/12/02)

58 bills and resolutions John Kerry has sponsored over the years have passed the U.S. Senate. Countless others have been improved because of his work, including the Clean Air Act, the Children's Health Insurance Program and the COPS program.

John Kerry has taken on the special interests and won. He fought against Newt Gingrich's anti-labor and anti-environmental regulatory reform. He has fought to raise the minimum wage. He has worked to shut down wasteful corporate subsidies. And John Kerry played an important role in the effort to reach a settlement with the tobacco companies that ended marketing to children and teenagers.

The number of bills that bear your name is a poor measure of legislative accomplishment. For example, Ted Kennedy, who most would acknowledge as the most accomplished Democratic Senator in a generation, has had just 9 bills signed into law in 10 years. Of the more than 400 bills Kennedy sponsored in 108th, 105th and 104th Congresses none were signed into law. And Bill Frist, the Republican Majority Leader, has sponsored 88 bills in the 108th Congress and zero have become law. In the 107th Congress, Frist sponsored 52 bills and 1 became law. It was a bill to authorize and urge the President to promote democracy in Zimbabwe.

---
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetR...id=142-08032004


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-17-2004 16:24:

LOL?

Why has Kerry made his controversial vietnam past.....the center of his whole campaign?

I mean....someone like Kerry who uncovered the IRAN CONTRA affair.....should definitely make that one of his highlights.


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-17-2004 16:25:

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Hey speedracer_mec, here's a thought - instead of presuming that John Kerry has led a secret life that he wants to keep from all of us, why don't you try judging the man on his policies and start threads about that instead? Wouldn't this make more sense than making spurious claims about Kerry's private and senatorial life ad ignorantiam? Are you saying that Bush has never kept any of his files secret from the public and would this ever make you think twice about voting for him? Has he ever shown us the medical records, for instance, proving definitively that he's been able to break his addictions to alcohol and cocaine?


Im sorrry i didnt copy and paste a left wing article..like 9 out of the 10 posts on the front page of this forum.


Posted by BadBadNeil on Aug-17-2004 16:26:

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
.... Neither the amount of times he has to go to the bathroom and POOP!! OMFG.. damm with this, Im reluctant, skeptical now.. I guess I should go Bush now, I mean, damm, with all that, Bush is an Angel next to him!


You got to be kidding. You post more on every little move Bush makes than any person in this forum.


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-17-2004 16:35:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Nice little comparison between Cheney and Kerry:



So you are admitting Kerry is mostly a no-show????
Since you can't back up your candidates CRAP record on actually showing up for work you try distraction.. its weak..
Have a point next time.. and thanks for yet another example of "i cant argue THIS topic so here is another one" commonly refered to here as the Clinton defense..

Being Pres is 24/7/365 and being a Senator IS NOT.. Kerry didnt even show up after the first world trade center attack.. you know its shitty but you cant admit it because you hate bush so much and you want to justify your vote for Kerry..


The problem is, every time one candidate is mentioned, other candidate is brought up, and then other presidents and will eventually go off to tangent and the original topic at hand get lost.

This patten of going off the topic is very prevelent and we need to focus on what was the original thread starting post.

If Kerry said/did something, that topic should be discussed without pointing finger at someone/something else, same for Bush.

I started this thread before, but why do we point a finger at elsewhere when your party (whoever you are affiliated with) or your candidate screws up? Why not own up to it, instead of trying to divert attention from the very problem that was brought up?

If you can't admit wrongdoings (even though you are fully aware it is wrong) by your candidates or political party, then you shouldn't be blaming your opposing party/candidate.

Some of you guys so damn biased, you can't fucking see straight. Lets face it, both sides have made number of mistakes/errors, so lets own up to it and move on.


Posted by ResonantDrag on Aug-17-2004 16:40:

quote:
Originally posted by speedracer_mec

Being Pres is 24/7/365 and being a Senator IS NOT..


so what you're saying is that kerry should be forgiven for not attending every vote, while bush should be attacked for spending 40% of his time at his ranch in texas and camp david.. brilliant logic, glad you see the light


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 16:42:

quote:
Originally posted by speedracer_mec
LOL?

Why has Kerry made his controversial vietnam past.....the center of his whole campaign?

I mean....someone like Kerry who uncovered the IRAN CONTRA affair.....should definitely make that one of his highlights.


I think you know why he put his vietnam past on center stage - to demonstrate his capability as a leader, and to indirectly (or directly, you choose) imply the contrast to Bush's service unaccountability record.

I find this whole "controversy" more annoying, almost to the point of jocularity, than I do frustrating. I'm really not sure what is so controversal about Naval records and true eyewitness accounts of events (from even a couple of registered Republicans, one who's life Kerry saved). I've seen and given enough contradictory and partisan evidence on these Smear Boat artists to clearly demonstrate a well-known Republican smear campaign taking place here.

As for his Senatorial record, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. He was well known for his propensity for investigations into things that didn't quite smell right, and sure enough he helped contribute to the ultimate Republican stink since Watergate. The relevance between this and his tours in Vietnam are somewhat confusing to me. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Oh, and your link to the Newsmax site doesn't work. Could you repost it, please?


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 17:09:

quote:
Originally posted by speedracer_mec
So you are admitting Kerry is mostly a no-show????
Since you can't back up your candidates CRAP record on actually showing up for work you try distraction.. its weak..
Have a point next time.. and thanks for yet another example of "i cant argue THIS topic so here is another one" commonly refered to here as the Clinton defense..


Easy there speed, I was answering Shakka's request, not yours. I stated in a previous post that your link wasn't working. If you could oblige me with a correct web link, then perhaps I can answer a little better.

These are pretty new attacks too. As with all partisan attacks, it takes a little time to wipe away the smear and sort through 1/2 truths and distortions. I make no exception for Dems. and their 527 groups as well. So get your link working, give me a tad bit of time to do a little research, and I'll get back to ya.

Fair enough?

quote:
Being Pres is 24/7/365 and being a Senator IS NOT.. Kerry didnt even show up after the first world trade center attack.. you know its shitty but you cant admit it because you hate bush so much and you want to justify your vote for Kerry..


Resonant answered this one, though in Bush's defense it's not like he was playin' golf and cookin' up a Texas BBQ ALL day. He was most certainly doin' work down there and was constantly being briefed (including the one about bin Laden determined to strike US, but oops, I'm digressin').

But like I said, these are new attacks. The full scope eventually unfolds, so give your adversary a little time.


quote:
The problem is, every time one candidate is mentioned, other candidate is brought up, and then other presidents and will eventually go off to tangent and the original topic at hand get lost.

This patten of going off the topic is very prevelent and we need to focus on what was the original thread starting post.


I agree, though everyone (including yourself, sir) is admittedly guilty of this every now and then. Of course, some more than others.

quote:
If Kerry said/did something, that topic should be discussed without pointing finger at someone/something else, same for Bush.


Agreed, let's move on here.

quote:
I started this thread before, but why do we point a finger at elsewhere when your party (whoever you are affiliated with) or your candidate screws up?


By "screwing up", if you're referring to Kerry not attending these public meetings, again I'm unfamiliar with this particular charge so let me get back to you.

At initial glance it does seem he was in attendance to the more relevant private meetings where true agendas and policies were created and debated, but my assertions are unsupported right now.


quote:
Why not own up to it, instead of trying to divert attention from the very problem that was brought up?


Diverting attention? Surely you jest, Mr. Bush?

You mean by diverting attention from your own unaccountability for 3-5 months of service to throwing the same attack dogs from McCain's campaign onto Kerry's war record? You mean by diverting attention from the stagnancy of jobs, the burden of tax cuts being shifted onto the middle class, the gap between upper and lower classes continuing to widen immensely, the continuing quagmire in Iraq as a result of NO accountability for a post-war plan, the torture scandals in Iraq/Afghanistan/Guantanamo Bay, the deliberate leak of a covert CIA agent who's position was to help find foreign WMD as a retaliation of someone callin' one of your primary war premises flat-out wrong, etc. etc. etc.?

That kind of diverting attention?

But back to point, it usually takes a little bit of time to sort through things that Kerry must "own up to", as you put it. So sit back, have a slab of baby backs on me, and give me a little time to investigate the charges. Alrighty?

quote:
If you can't admit wrongdoings (even though you are fully aware it is wrong) by your candidates or political party, then you shouldn't be blaming your opposing party/candidate.


Kerry is full of shortcomins, to be sure. Sometimes it's a measure of who has the least amount of shortcomins, as well as the degree of those shortcomins. As it stands with me, Bush's laundry list is a great deal longer. But if there's substance to the charge, so be it.

(Psst, did I tell you that I voted for Dole in '96, and actually, truly contemplated on voting for Bush in 2000? I ended up voting for Gore, BTW, but almost got suckered into Bush's "compassionate conservatism" rhetoric).


quote:
Some of you guys so damn biased, you can't fucking see straight.


A little self-reflection would give you more credit here, speed.

quote:
Lets face it, both sides have made number of mistakes/errors, so lets own up to it and move on.


Ahh, self-reflection noted.


Posted by ResonantDrag on Aug-17-2004 17:15:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I think you know why he put his vietnam past on center stage - to demonstrate his capability as a leader, and to indirectly (or directly, you choose) imply the contrast to Bush's service unaccountability record.

I find this whole "controversy" more annoying, almost to the point of jocularity, than I do frustrating. I'm really not sure what is so controversal about Naval records and true eyewitness accounts of events (from even a couple of registered Republicans, one who's life Kerry saved). I've seen and given enough contradictory and partisan evidence on these Smear Boat artists to clearly demonstrate a well-known Republican smear campaign taking place here.

As for his Senatorial record, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. He was well known for his propensity for investigations into things that didn't quite smell right, and sure enough he helped contribute to the ultimate Republican stink since Watergate. The relevance between this and his tours in Vietnam are somewhat confusing to me. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Oh, and your link to the Newsmax site doesn't work. Could you repost it, please?


it seems that kerry's team is having to spend all it's time dealing with bush's soft money supporters (ie, smear boat) and can't focus on expanding his platform.

republicans have an incredible ability to tie the resources of democrats by tossing red herring after red herring.

[flash back]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno122896.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno041697.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno091897.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno092197.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno100697.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno101697.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno101997.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno120397.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr.../reno120597.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...urton080798.htm

[/flashback]

i wish the dems had the ability to maneuver ashcroft out of his duties the same way that the gop kept reno from doing her job.

seriously... kerry's war record is being attacked by a non-serving bush; his attendance record is being attacked by absentee president; his wife's wealth is being attacked by one of the nation's most powerful families.

what's next? did kerry not do enough coke in the 70s to satisfy presidential criteria?


Posted by speedracer_mec on Aug-17-2004 17:22:

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Easy there speed, I was answering Shakka's request, not yours. I stated in a previous post that your link wasn't working. If you could oblige me with a correct web link, then perhaps I can answer a little better.

These are pretty new attacks too. As with all partisan attacks, it takes a little time to wipe away the smear and sort through 1/2 truths and distortions. I make no exception for Dems. and their 527 groups as well. So get your link working, give me a tad bit of time to do a little research, and I'll get back to ya.

Fair enough?



Resonant answered this one, though in Bush's defense it's not like he was playin' golf and cookin' up a Texas BBQ ALL day. He was most certainly doin' work down there and was constantly being briefed (including the one about bin Laden determined to strike US, but oops, I'm digressin').

But like I said, these are new attacks. The full scope eventually unfolds, so give your adversary a little time.




I agree, though everyone (including yourself, sir) is admittedly guilty of this every now and then. Of course, some more than others.



Agreed, let's move on here.



By "screwing up", if you're referring to Kerry not attending these public meetings, again I'm unfamiliar with this particular charge so let me get back to you.

At initial glance it does seem he was in attendance to the more relevant private meetings where true agendas and policies were created and debated, but my assertions are unsupported right now.




Diverting attention? Surely you jest, Mr. Bush?

You mean by diverting attention from your own unaccountability for 3-5 months of service to throwing the same attack dogs from McCain's campaign onto Kerry's war record? You mean by diverting attention from the stagnancy of jobs, the burden of tax cuts being shifted onto the middle class, the gap between upper and lower classes continuing to widen immensely, the continuing quagmire in Iraq as a result of NO accountability for a post-war plan, the torture scandals in Iraq/Afghanistan/Guantanamo Bay, the deliberate leak of a covert CIA agent who's position was to help find foreign WMD as a retaliation of someone callin' one of your primary war premises flat-out wrong, etc. etc. etc.?

That kind of diverting attention?

But back to point, it usually takes a little bit of time to sort through things that Kerry must "own up to", as you put it. So sit back, have a slab of baby backs on me, and give me a little time to investigate the charges. Alrighty?



Kerry is full of shortcomins, to be sure. Sometimes it's a measure of who has the least amount of shortcomins, as well as the degree of those shortcomins. As it stands with me, Bush's laundry list is a great deal longer. But if there's substance to the charge, so be it.

(Psst, did I tell you that I voted for Dole in '96, and actually, truly contemplated on voting for Bush in 2000? I ended up voting for Gore, BTW, but almost got suckered into Bush's "compassionate conservatism" rhetoric).




A little self-reflection would give you more credit here, speed.



Ahh, self-reflection noted.


Yikes the link is dead.
Let me go look it up

AHH my chest hurts.


Posted by LiquidX on Aug-17-2004 18:39:

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
You got to be kidding. You post more on every little move Bush makes than any person in this forum.


Then I guess I should be honored a cookie!


Posted by MisterOpus1 on Aug-17-2004 20:06:

quote:
Originally posted by speedracer_mec
Yikes the link is dead.
Let me go look it up

AHH my chest hurts.


Finally got around to taking a deeper look at the charges against Kerry here. Didn't have to look too far.

From www.johnkerry.com:

quote:
Bush-Cheney Ad Fact Check � �Intel�
"Within weeks of saying he had too much good to say to be negative, George Bush has resumed his misleading negative campaign. He lacks a plan or a vision of where the nation needs to go, so he's resorted once again to the politics of fear and distortion. America can do better." - Kerry campaign spokesman, Chad Clanton.

THE FACTS:

AD TITLE: �Intel�

TYPE: 30sec TV

DATE: 08/13/04


REASON FOR THE NEW ATTACK AD FROM BUSH-CHENEY



�Bush Campaign Steps Up Attacks as Kerry Gains in Polls�

�Republicans on Thursday leveled some of their most aggressive attacks yet against Sen. John F. Kerry, as a series of polls suggested the Democratic presidential nominee had gained slight leads in some battleground states and the economy continued to weigh on President Bush's prospects.� [LA Times, 8/13/04]


BUSH-CHENEY CREDIBILITY GAP



Narrator: �John Kerry promises��I will immediately reform the intelligence system.� Oh really? As a member of the intelligence committee, Senator Kerry was absent for 76% of the committee�s hearings.�


THE RECORD


�Kerry Pledges to Reform Intelligence System� �I will immediately reform the intelligence system - so policy is guided by facts and facts are never distorted by politics,� Mr. Kerry said.� [Financial Times, 7/30/04]


�Kerry Calls to Extend Mandate of 9/11 Commission� �Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry called Tuesday for extending the mandate of the bipartisan commission that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, saying it should keep working for an additional 18 months to help ensure that its recommendations are implemented.� [Washington Post, 7/27/04]


�Kerry repeats call for National Intelligence Director� �Senator John Kerry says there's something more important than the nomination of Republican Congressman Porter Goss of Florida as C-I-A director -- and that's the creation of a national intelligence chief. Kerry today repeated his support for the Nine-Eleven commission's recommendations. He said the super-spy chief should also control the budgets and personnel. He called for bipartisan confirmation hearings on Goss' nomination that President Bush announced today. Kerry said, "This is a key position in fighting the war on terror and should not be left vacant.� [AP, 8/10/04; WQAD News 8]


FUZZY MATH AND BAD STATS MISLEAD ON KERRY�S RECORD

Ad Text: �As a member of the intelligence committee, Senator Kerry was absent for 76% of the committee�s hearings.�


Selective math and sketchy methods:
The Bush-Cheney Campaign is using misleading numbers and cannot pretend to have the facts. They rely only on whether Sen. Kerry made statements in one of a small number of open hearings. For example from 1993-1998 the Select Intelligence Committee held more than 329 meetings, hearings and markups. Just 65 of these were open meetings. [Senate Report 104-1; Senate Report 105-1; Senate Report 106-3]


Ad Text: �In the year after the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Kerry was absent for every single one.�


Fuzzy Math Again:
Again, the Bush-Cheney Campaign is using misleading numbers and cannot pretend to have the facts. They rely only on whether Sen. Kerry made statements in one of seven open hearings. All in all, during the 103rd Congress, the Committee held a total of 103 on-the-record meetings and hearings. There were seventy (70) oversight hearings and seven (7) business meetings. Twelve (12) hearings were held on the budget including the Conference sessions with the House. Hearings on specific legislation totaled nine (9) and nomination hearings totaled one (1). [Senate Report 104-1: Oversight Over Intelligence Activities in the 103rd Congress].


The following Republican members also failed to speak at a public hearing that year: John Chaffee; Malcom Wallop, Ted Stevens, Slade Gorton, John Danforth


Kerry was part of the �most significant counterintelligence legislation ever.� According to Republican Chair and Bush Campaign Co-Chair Arlen Specter: �The Committee pioneered the most significant counterintelligence legislation ever passed in the Congress.� The legislation addressed intelligence problems uncovered by the Committees investigation of the Aldrich Ames case, including the failure of the FBI and CIA to coordinate on counterintelligence. [Senate Report 104-1: Oversight Over Intelligence Activities in the 103rd Congress].


EVEN AFTER 9-11, BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS WEAK ON INTELLIGENCE REFORM


Bush Opposed 9/11 Commission to Figure Out Better Terrorism Prevention. �Bush often has resisted outside inquiries, at least at the outset. He initially opposed a joint House-Senate inquiry into the 9/11 attacks, as well as creation of the independent bipartisan panel to look into the attacks, but eventually acquiesced. He also balked at naming the Iraq panel but eventually adopted the concept in the face of political pressure from Capitol Hill. Bush portrayed his effort Friday as an attempt to get to the bottom of a dispute that has gained momentum since U.S. weapons hunters failed to find the weapons of mass destruction alleged by the White House as justification for going to war 11 months ago.� [ Detroit Free Press, 2/7/04]


Bush Failed To Create National Intel Director With Real Power. �The Sept. 11 commission also said the [national intelligence director] should have the power to hire and fire the heads of the CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, the FBI intelligence office and other agencies. Bush�s plan, however, simply envisions giving the director a say in those decisions.� [AP, 8/5/04]


BUSH ADMINISTRATION MARGINALIZED FIGHTING TERRORISM


Despite Warnings Of "Imminent" Al Qaeda Attack, Rumsfeld Made No Changes. According to reports released by the 9/11 commission, "intelligence reports in 2001 had warned of an imminent attack by Al Qaeda, and that Mr. Rumsfeld had not ordered any new preparation against Al Qaeda or the Taliban from the time he took over the Pentagon to the 9/11 attacks." [New York Times, 3/24/04]


Even After 9/11, Administration Cut Counterterrorism Funds. �In the early days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI, an internal administration budget document shows. The document, dated Oct. 12, 2001, shows that the FBI requested $1.5 billion in additional funds to enhance its counterterrorism efforts with the creation of 2,024 positions. But the White House Office of Management and Budget cut that request to $531 million. Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, working within the White House limits, cut the FBI's request for items such as computer networking and foreign language intercepts by half, cut a cyber-security request by three quarters and eliminated entirely a request for "collaborative capabilities." [Washington Post, 3/22/04]


Ashcroft �Resisted FBI� Requests For More Counterterrorism Funding. �The papers show that Ashcroft ranked counterterrorism efforts as a lower priority than his predecessor did, and that he resisted FBI requests for more counterterrorism funding before and immediately after the attacks.� [Washington Post, 3/22/04]


Ashcroft Did Not Rank Fighting Terrorism Even in Top Seven Goals. �Other documents indicate that before Sept. 11, Ashcroft did not give terrorism top billing in his strategic plans for the Justice Department, which includes the FBI. A draft of Ashcroft's "Strategic Plan" from Aug. 9, 2001, does not put fighting terrorism as one of the department's seven goals, ranking it as a sub-goal beneath gun violence and drugs. After the attacks, fighting terrorism became the department's primary goal. By contrast, in April 2000, Ashcroft's predecessor, Janet Reno, called terrorism "the most challenging threat in the criminal justice area." [Washington Post, 3/22/04]


BUSH-CHENEY CREDIBILITY GAP



Narrator: �In the year after the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Kerry was absent for every single one. That same year he proposed slashing America�s intelligence budget by $6 billion. There�s what Kerry says, and then there�s what Kerry does.�


THE RECORD


John Kerry is an Experienced Leader in the Intelligence Field � John Kerry served on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for 8 years and is the former Vice Chairman of the Committee. Kerry joined the Committee in early 1993 and served until early 2001. Among the areas closely investigated by John Kerry and the Intelligence Committee include global terrorism, world wide threats to U.S. national security, international espionage, weapons of mass destruction, drug trafficking, arms trafficking and nuclear security. John Kerry is also the former Chairman of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations and conducted several high profile Intelligence and International Security investigations. Additionally, Kerry is the author of the 1997 book �The New War� which addressed the challenges of global terrorism and has served on the Foreign Relations Committee for more than eighteen years. One observer of Kerry wrote that, �Kerry plunged himself into the study of international crime and its implications for America.� In fact, the Kerry Commission uncovered the drug smuggling and arms trading in the Oliver North, Iran Contra scandal. �As chairman and then ranking Democrat on the Senate subcommittee on terrorism, narcotics, and international operations, John Kerry has been out front in pushing three presidential administrations to take seriously what is going on in the international underworld.� [Cleveland Plain Dealer, 11/6/96, 7/20/97; Boston Globe 6/28/97; The Guardian, 6/19/96]


Kerry Strongly Supports Increased Intelligence Funding � Including $250 Billion in the Previous 8 Years � A 50% Increase Since 1996 � John Kerry, a former member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has strongly supported recent increases in Intelligence funding, and, in the wake of 9/11, has supported the bipartisan call for an even larger increase in intelligence funding. According to a report issued by the Center for Defense Information entitled �Intelligence Funding and the War on Terror� John Kerry has supported approximately $250 billion in Intelligence funding over the past eight years alone. The report concludes that Kerry has supported a 50% increase in intelligence funding since 1996. Recently, Kerry stressed the need for greater intelligence in order to protect the country from terrorism: "The best single defense we have today, the most important weapon in the war against terrorism, is intelligence, good intelligence. We're way behind the curve in terms of human intelligence-gathering capacity as well as mutual legal-assistance efforts. You've got to know who they are, where they are what their plans are and hit them before they hit you. That's intelligence." [Senate Intelligence Authorization Funding voice votes 9/25/02, 12/13/01, 12/6/00, 11/19/1999, 10/8/98 & 9/25/96; 1997, Senate Roll Call vote # 109; Jewish News Bulletin of Northern California, 4/5/02]


KERRY DID NOT �SLASH� THE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET


Ad Text: �That same year he proposed slashing America�s intelligence budget by $6 billion.�


Bush Campaign Co-Chair Mark Hatfield Voted With Kerry On This Issue: �Congressman Greg Walden, who is serving his 3rd term representing the 2nd district in the United States House of Representatives, will serve as Co-Chair and former Governor Vic Atiyeh and Senator Mark Hatfield will serve as Honorary Co-Chairman.� Mark Hatfield voted with Kerry in 1994. [www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=2072; Senate Roll Call Vote 1994 # 39]


This was not a proposal aimed solely at intelligence funding; but was a broad-based attempt to reduce the deficit

Like his 1995 plan that has been the subject of false Republican Attacks, John Kerry proposed a broad-based deficit reduction plan that would have cut $45 billion from the deficit over five years.


The intelligence portion would have:

Rescinded $1 billion from intelligence funding in FY1994

Capped funds at $1 billion less than 1994 levels (approx 27B) for next 4 years


Actual amounts approved by Republicans and Democrats over the next two years were BELOW the level they would have been under Kerry�s Amendment.


In fact, the funding levels in FY1997 and FY1998, both approved by Republican Congresses were BELOW the levels that John Kerry proposed in 1994.


Intelligence funding was ripe for cuts at the time.


Surveillance of USSR comprised 58 percent of Cold War budget.


In a letter dated September 16, 1992, CIA Director Gates states:

�In 1980, when we were at the height of our commitment to the cold war, only 58 percent of the intelligence resources were dedicated to the U.S.S.R. -- a far smaller share than many may suppose. Today, the Commonwealth of Independent States accounts for only 34 percent of the President's amended fiscal year 1993 budget.�


Waste, Fraud and Abuse in the Intelligence Community. On September 25, 1995, the New York Times reported the existence of an NRO slush fund in the amount of $1.5 billion.


Five days before Kerry introduced his legislation, The Washington Post reported that the NRO had hoarded $1 billion to $1.7 billion of unspent funds without informing the CIA or the Pentagon. Months earlier, the CIA had launched an inquiry into the NRO's funding after complaints by lawmakers that the agency had used more than $300 million of unspent classified funds to build a Virginia headquarters for the organization a year earlier. [Washington Post, 3/12/2004]

Under a plan approved in late 1995, about $1.9 billion was taken from NRO reserve funds through 1997, and another $1.9 billion over the following two years, according to a senior intelligence official familiar with the NRO's activities. [Washington Post, 3/12/2004]


BUSH IGNORED TERRORISM WARNINGS


Bush Went Golfing Day After Getting Report, �Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.� �As dawn broke over the rolling hills of central Texas, an 18-car motorcade roared past fields of grazing black Angus cattle, carrying George W. Bush and his presidential retinue from his ranch near Crawford to a morning round of golf. The day was Aug. 7, 2001, and the sun, glowing orange as it crested the dark treeline, was already hot. Bush, sporting a maroon-and-gold Polo shirt, was upbeat as he arrived at the Ridgewood Country Club, and he teased reporters about the weather. "I know a lot of you wish you were in the East Coast, lounging on the beaches, suckin' in the salt air," he said. He, by contrast, welcomed a chance to work and play in the 100-degree Texas heat. �I find that to be a good part of keeping me a balanced person,� he said. If Bush was rattled by a daily intelligence briefing he had received the day before, titled �Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US,� he didn't show it. He spread his arms wide and told reporters, �I'm enjoying myself.�� [Newhouse News Service, 4/19/04]


2001 State Department Terrorism Report Left Out Bin Laden. �The State Department officially released its annual terrorism report just a little more than an hour ago, but unlike last year, there's no extensive mention of alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. A senior State Department official tells CNN the U.S. government made a mistake in focusing so much energy on bin Laden and 'personalizing terrorism.�� [CNN, 4/30/01]


Principals in Bush Administration Didn�t Even Meet on Al Qaeda Until Sept. 4th. [Commissioner] ROEMER: Were there principal meetings on al Qaeda and terrorism before September the 4th?
RUMSFELD: Well, there were certainly principals meetings where it was discussed. Whether it was the sole topic or not, you have those records and you would know. I left out...
ROEMER: Our records say no, that the first principals meeting on terrorism...
RUMSFELD: Just solely on that topic?
ROEMER: ... until September 4th.� [testimony 3/23/04]


Bush transition did not discuss Bin Laden. In his new book, Clarke recounts how on Jan. 24, 2001, he recommended that the new president's national-security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, convene the president's top advisers to discuss the Qaeda threat. One week later, Bush did. But according to Clarke, the meeting had nothing to do with bin Laden. The topic was how to get rid of Saddam Hussein. "What does that tell you?" Clarke remarked to Newsweek. "They thought there was something more urgent. It was Iraq. They came in there with their agenda, and [Al Qaeda] was not on it." [Newsweek, 3/21/2004]


Bush ignored terrorism for months. Richard A. Clarke, who served in counterterrorism posts at the White House until February 2003, also said in an interview to be broadcast tonight on CBS's "60 Minutes" that President Bush has "done a terrible job on the war against terrorism" by failing to capture Osama bin Laden or focus more aggressively on the al Qaeda network. "Frankly, I find it outrageous that the president is running for reelection on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism," Clarke said, according to a CBS transcript. "He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months, when maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11. Maybe. We'll never know." [Washington Post, 3/21/2004]


After Told Second Tower Hit, But Before Pentagon Hit, Bush Stayed in Classroom. �Just after 9 a.m., Mr. Bush took a seat in front of students, most of them from a poor neighborhood. He listened as teacher Sandra K. Daniels pointed to an easel, and the second-graders read aloud lists of words. Then, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card strode into the classroom, leaned down and whispered in the president's ear, "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack," Mr. Card has recounted. Both Republican and Democratic commissioners have said they are focusing closely on what happened next -- and whether mere minutes could have affected the outcome on Sept. 11. The panel's investigators are looking at questions such as the timeliness of presidential orders about intercepting the jet that at 9:37 a.m. plowed into the Pentagon.� [Wall Street Journal, 3/22/04]


Officials Had Said Bush Rushed Out Right Away, But Tape Shows He Waited Seven Minutes��No Need to Pull Bush Away.� �But uncut videotape of the classroom visit obtained from the local cable-TV station director who shot it, and interviews with the teacher and principal, show that Mr. Bush remained in the classroom not for mere seconds, but for at least seven additional minutes. He followed along for five minutes as children read aloud a story about a pet goat. Then he stayed for at least another two minutes, asking the children questions and explaining to Ms. Rigell that he would have to leave more quickly than planned. Mr. Bartlett confirmed in an interview that the president stayed in the classroom for at least seven minutes. The spokesman said that as the president's staff was trying to learn more about the plane crashes, there was no need to talk to Mr. Bush or pull him away.� [Wall Street Journal, 3/22/04]

Posted by Peter Daou on August 13, 2004 at 05:46 PM

http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresp...ves/002455.html


Posted by LiquidX on Aug-17-2004 20:36:

Waits for other sides reply's.. hehe nice lookup MisterOpus.


Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.