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Tune selection before gig

Do you select your tunes and tune order before you go to the gig or do you just pull stuff out when you play?

I tend to arrange my tunes before the set.

Re: Tune selection before gig

quote:

Originally posted by 3xx3r7 Do you select your tunes and tune order before you go to the gig or do you just pull stuff out when you play? I tend to arrange my tunes before the set.

i think thats ok if u r recording a demo or something but if u do that in gigs, u will become to predictable specially if u play the same gig twice or get a residency. people will know what u r going to play and that will be boring.. besides what if the crowd is not diggin ur programing?

No way.
I thought I would once I got my first club gig. But once I stepped my foot in the club, all that went out the door. I just fed off the crowd, and I always play better like this. Its much more fun too.

this is a topic I always get in a debate with other fellow djs.

I personally think "pre-programming" can be very helpful and I persoanlly do it.
HOWEVER
Let me please eloborate in what I mean by pre- programming though.


IMO pre-programming means knowing what records mix well with others, which set of records create a certain mood, and finally knowing which group of records or record might affect the crowd in a certain way. NOT PLANNING THE ENTIRE SET.

ONCE YOU KNOW YOUR RECORDS VERY WELL THAN YOU CAN "PROGRAM" YOUR SET BASED ON THE CROWDS REACTION. INITIALLY YOU GO IN WITH AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. IF YOU SEE ITS NOT WORKING MOVE TO YOUR OTHER "PROGRAM".

I think of "pre-programming" as mentally visualizing your record or set of records as s color( color becuase in my mind it conveys an emotion or feeling). Once you know the "program color" of that set you can than begin to create your "art work " on the decks. An artist always goes into a set and say ok " I will start off in this color" but than judging or reading the crowd you will than know what other "colors" to bring in or out. A GOOD DJ WILL INSTICTIVELY KNOW WHICH "COLOR" TO START OFF WITH BASED ON THE CROWD,VENUE,PREVIOUS DJ, ETC. Like Timo Mass said " I follow my balls ..If they say play dirty I play dirty if they say playnasty i play nasty."

IMO the DJ controlls the crowd not the opposite which is a common dogma in the dj world. I think if you are a good dj you will pick good tunes and know how to "program" your set so people will be affect reguardless of what crowd you face. A good dj will introduce people to new songs and old songs and set them on a journey. A shitty DJ will pick boring tunes, annoy the crowd, and hack all over the decks to find that right tune to play.\

DJ'ing is like painting. Yes you can pratice but you can not pratice or train someone to pick beautiful tunes. This is something unique in peoples DNA that allows them to have that "musical ear" , just like it was unique to see Micheal Jordan play basketball or Leonardo Di Vinci paint.


I find "reading the crowd" principle to be a bit over emphased. Becuase a good DJ will have picked good records that are each unique and he feels confident WILL affect a person. If your tunes are not getting the reaction you expected than you picked shitty tunes. Very simple. Dj'ing is a very instanteous process. You know , the club owner knows, everyone knows based on what your playing if you suck or if your hot.


The problem with dj'ing is that we all hate to admit that we suck after we spent all this money to get started.

The TRUE test of a good dj is to play in front of a crowd of people ( friends, strangers, etc.) and get them not only to dance but to come up to you and say "wow this is awesome , what are you playing".
Than you know your good DJ. and its only a matter of time before the rest of the world hears you.


It is this very instictive and unique music picking ability in a GOOD DJ which touch poeple's souls and minds which essentially create the foundation of the GOOD DJ. NOT the crowd nor pratice nor copying of other successful dj's can help you out when gaining this talent ( yes talent not skill).

IMO this golden talent in a DJ is cultivated by a few key factors. 1) culture ----> your life has affected what you like
2) Passion + Love for the music -----> heard in the programming of the set
3) DNA ------> some people are just amzingly talented and we can all thank GOD that he has blessed us with this pleasure.

I hate when people say that the dj has to play to the crowd. NO . The Djis an artist. And as such he should play his style and try to make the crowd enjoy it. If people arent dancing than you suck, very simply. NOW KEEP IN MIND, PLAY IN FRONT OF A "FRIENDLY" CROWD. DO NOT DO THIS TEST IN FRONT OF A BUNCH OF HARDCORE RnB fans or RAP-STAR WANNABES.

As a DJ , hopefully, you will have devloped your style and sound in music. This natural progression in a "real" dj. Thus if you are constantly looking to the crowd to tell you what to play than this progression will never occur. As a result people will be acustom to your sound. HOWEVER, READING THE CROWD , IMO , MEANS REACTING WITHIN YOUR "PRE-PROGRAMMED" STYLE.

If your an artist do you paint portraits that will please everyone or do you paint stuff that you are passionate,love and brilliant at painting? This is a rhetorical question. The answer is as an artist you need to do what you so uniquely and beautiful do. tHE OPPOSITE IS NOT AN ARTIST BUT A BUSINESSMAN. The famous artist of the world dont go poll people tell see what they need to paint now. THE ARTISTS OF THE WORLD CHANGE MINDS, SHAPE CULTURE, AND ADD NEW BAEUTY TO THE WORLD AROUND US.

I see the dj world divide into two groups of people , just like artists, those who are trying to please people and make a quick few quick $$$ and those who are truely tring to change the world and do something unique and different ( and are making $$ becuase of their success).

This dogma within the DJ community of playing to the crowd has created
1) a glut of sh!tty clubs that play top 20 tunes or worse play 100% rap/hip-hop
2) a culture which does not see the DJ as tha musical artist
3) supported the idealogy in minds of naive club-owners that DJ's are a dime a dozen( so why not just have your friend[s] dj )
4)shaped the culture of clubbers in thinking a "night-out" as a time to lounge around ,"look" sexy, get drunk, and try to "hook up" with someone.



But than again it has set the perfect stage for someone to come around and SHAKE THINGS UP again!!

I remeber the time when people would laugh at the concept of a DJ filling a stadium or a park.

I remeber when people would laugh at the idea of a DJ touring around the world.

I remeber when people would laugh at the idea of EDM as nothing more than "club music".




Just as people today now laugh at the idea of poeple going out on friday or saturday night for the sole purpose of seeing their fav. dj at a club or looking to hear something new in EDM.

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza This dogma within the DJ community of playing to the crowd has created 1) a glut of sh!tty clubs that play top 20 tunes or worse play 100% rap/hip-hop 2) a culture which does not see the DJ as tha musical artist 3) supported the idealogy in minds of naive club-owners that DJ's are a dime a dozen( so why not just have your friend[s] dj ) 4)shaped the culture of clubbers in thinking a "night-out" as a time to lounge around ,"look" sexy, get drunk, and try to "hook up" with someone.

Im not going to answer all of your points- there is just too many, and franky im knackered and cant be bothered.

1)You seem to have a very elitest view- im a dj first and foremost.
I do House nights, i do r&b/hip hop nights, i do trancey nights and i do all in one together nights.
Nothing wrong with that- there are many many styles about, and there are markets for all of them.
All are good and valid in their own right, and there is still nothing wrong with top 20 clubs- you are entertaining people first and foremost, and as nem will agree with, there is a lot to learn from commercial clubs about crowd dynamics and reading the floor, and also dictating the flow of the floor- its not one or the other, its a combination of them.
You wont last very long with the attitude 'ill play what i want and f*ck them if they dont like it'

3)Most clubs are business'. Fact. they are there to make money, not to educate people musically- as harsh as it sounds. If they can get someone cheaper, and just as good, they probably will do.
As i say countless times, it is who you know what how good you are oncer you get to a certain point- a lot of managers DO have their friends dj.
There are a hell of a lot of young, cheap djs out there, so they are a dime a dozen.
In case it slipped your attention, Djing is a very 'cool' thing at the moment.

4)This has been the case for donkeys years.
People have gone out to hook up look and feel sexy and drink for years and it wont change any time soon.

Most people arent anal when it comes to music and they go out for the above reasons.- the serious music fans and clubbers are in a minority compared to your average joe.

This is a real world, nasty cut-throat business to make money.
It is not some world for elitest pricks and to try and educate people into 'cooler music'- you wont last 5 mins with that attitude

quote:

Originally posted by Freak 1)You seem to have a very elitest view- im a dj first and foremost. I do House nights, i do r&b/hip hop nights, i do trancey nights and i do all in one together nights.

IMO the "jack of all trades" DJ is like the saying goes "the master of none".

Yes DJ's can have multiple styles. BUT Complientary stlyes.

And quite frankly unless your super rich there is no way you can afford to be all over the place in reguards to your style.


Last time I heard Sasha, Carl Cox, Diggers, or PVD I dont think I heard any dramtic genre-hop. I guess this is why they are in the postion they are in and the others are not.

To be perfectly frank I think you need to take your head out of your rectum.

Regarding your comments as quoted, which i can only assume are aimed at me personally :
I am a house dj first and foremmost- its what i play most of the time.
However, I also have a varied taste and can express that through djing a variety of styles and nights- hence why im able to play urban nights or whatever and do it very competently.
In addition to this, work is work- im not goping to turn down work of any kind because
a) i havent got my head stuck up my ass
b) because i have bills to pay
c) its my trade and im good at it, and my passion is for performing

Im not a 'jack of all trades dj' by any means- but nor am i an elitest prick, who has all the opinions but still stuck in my bedroom playing to my cat.

And regarding the commnents about PVD/sahsa/dickweed/whoever is the current flavour of the month in mixmag/wherever, they are name Djs- they dont NEED to genre hop (although some djs do- anyone remember armand van helden dropping hip hop on the space teerrace, fergie going from hard house to techno etc) as they are overbooked anyway playing just the one style.

No really, your post is bollocks on so many levels

im with freak on this..say u get booked at a gig in a small club or somebodys place and u r bangin the trance out...now the people rnt feelin it..r u gonna shove it down thier throats anyways? well my friend u wont get booked again and i wont think u would enjoy an empty dance floor..

quote:

Originally posted by Freak And regarding the commnents about PVD/sahsa/dickweed/whoever is the current flavour of the month in mixmag/wherever, they are name Djs- they dont NEED to genre hop (although some djs do- anyone remember armand van helden dropping hip hop on the space teerrace, fergie going from hard house to techno etc) as they are overbooked anyway playing just the one style.

Aye, these guys are the main attraction. Oakenfold can get away with almost anything. I have seen him perform sets that make me ashamed to be a DJ sometimes.
Further more, a lot of clubs have a MUSIC POLICY, break that and you will be looking for work no matter how good you are or think you are.


Again the issue of promoters etc comes into but as Freak said there is a wealth of knowledge to be learned just from watching what makes people dance.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Freak This is a real world, nasty cut-throat business to make money. It is not some world for elitest pricks and to try and educate people into 'cooler music'- you wont last 5 mins with that attitude

very true.

and if it wasn't a business to make money, the republic would still be the republic.

(to anyone who doesnt know what im on about, its where gatecrasher was held for the most part of its good period. it has since been turned into a ritzyesque club called "S1 1DJ". gatecrasher is now hardly ever there (when it is, it isn't anything to write home about), being replaced by a weekly night with what many of the crasher faithful regard as a shit music policy that makes more money)

back on topic, personally i take a bag full of records and play what i feel like at the time. i might actually plan what tune i will start on, and what tune i finish on as i think these are the most important tracks of the set, first and last impressions and all that.

Only my fist two or three records. I don't like pre-arranged sets that much (one exception would be Ti�sto in Concert, if that was arranged).

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic say u get booked at a gig in a small club or somebodys place and u r bangin the trance out...now the people rnt feelin it..r u gonna shove it down thier throats anyways? /QUOTE] If trance is what you love and what your good at spinning, than yea. Do your best. If they dont like it you must suck. Simple. A good DJ should rock any party within his style. [QUOTE]Originally posted by tranceaholic well my friend u wont get booked again and i wont think u would enjoy an empty dance floor..

I would rather not be booked than be booked and than forced to compromise my sytle and my idea of what a DJ should do.Again DJ'ing to me is a hobby not my job. Thats why people like Armin, PVD, Sasha, etc. all had full-time jobs aside form dj'ing, until they became super starts of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Freak b) because i have bills to pay ..

For me DJ'ing is not work. I do not plan to make this a living.If I make any money at it I dont care. Its a hobby for me. Like an artist who paints; he/she does it for the joy first and foremost. I find my payoff in seeing that I exposed poeple to something new and made them really enjoy. I find pleasure in seeing people dance, but to the music that I like as well.

Like I said two different types of DJ's 1) The Artists and 2) The Business Man.




Freak I was not aiming that quote to you, honestly.

But I did enjoy lmao to this :

quote:

Originally posted by Freak nor am i an elitest prick, who has all the opinions but still stuck in my bedroom playing to my cat...

I have a dog..no cat


But honestly, me not being a resident DJ is no merit to disreguard my comments. Rather, it should be seen a true ,untainted, and uncensored comment.



I dont know where I am being elitest??? Its not an elistest point of view rather decripitive idealogy of what it means to DJ in EDM.
However, I could see where you might have gotten offend at my comments. In particular my rationale of what a "good" DJ is. As much as I like you Freak I cannot bend my rules for what consitutes this.

If you play house ( which you said you did) than you should be able to rock ANY crowd playing your house music. IF you can not and you need to start playing rap or RnB to maintain the floor than sadly you suck as a House DJ.For example, I live in Chicago and Bad Boy Bill is a very popular House DJ here. I saw him live about month ago and the crowd he was playing to didnt seem to be very house friendly, mainly becasue they were their to see another Trance DJ spining after him. But this man seeing his challenge was up for the call. he just rocked the house doing quick mixes, scraching, and playing alot of choice tunes and skipping over b#llshit ones. He didnt resort to playing RnB or Hip Hop to get the crowd going. No , he did it all with house music all night long ( pardon the pun).


I have no idea wtf your saying in reguards to PVD/Sasha/etc. genre hoppping.
That was a truely bollocks ( <----I like that english word ) comment.

Remember I said DJ's sometimes play complementary styles (i.e. prog. + trance or hip hop and house) Thus it seems in your case you are not jack of all trades if all you play is house and hip-hop ( thats actually quite normal). However, if you said (like I thought you did ealier) that you play trance and prog. as well than of course your genre hopping; thats 4 styles. An it would be nearly impossible to be on top of all 4 styles ( not only in finding the tunes but also in financing this)




Congrats that you a playing in front of people.
However, that does not mean your entitled to know what it means to DJ. All this really proves is that you play in front of people, thats about it. It does not prove or mean you know how to DJ or even know how to DJ correctly.


As I said Freak I am not trying to make these comments at you personally. Rather, I am defending my point of view.




.....

I forgot since your from the UK Freak you might want to know this:


There was once a man ,like me , who was sick of the UK club scene and wanted to start something different and new. He wanted the focus to be about the music and nothing else.What did he do? He opened The Ministry of Sound. Yes, the place where PVD first played in the UK. Yes, the club that back in the dya set the standard for clubbing. At that time he didnt sell out and he was richly rewarded. Interestly, now that his club has sold out you can see te results. Lose of respect and eventul lose of profits.

Wow. I don't really know where to begin with this one, but I'll try to touch on a few points.

Dave, I'll say for instance that you are playing house music for a crowd. If the crowd is not feeling the music and want you to play hip-hop, how does that make you a shit dj? You must look at the venue and the type of musical preference that the people attending have. If you are playing house to a hip-hop crowd, that simply means that the audience does not like the style of music. That in no way dictates shitness on the part of the dj. Now, if a house dj spins at a place where dance music and especially house is dominant, then they should rock the place because of the music, unless of course their skills suck to begin with.

I do agree with you about picking your venues according to music. Why would you play a hip-hop night if you were a dance music dj? You wouldn't. You would want to play a gig that hosts dance music. Also being a house dj, there is no way I'd spin at a hip-hop gig. Then I'd have to buy a completely different set of music and spend more money on something that I don't like.

As far as reading the crowd goes, you have to do it. Maybe not to the bloated extent that people on this board say, but at least bring the energy level up and down according to the dance floor and crowd reaction. IMO, it's total bullshit to have to sweat bullets just to find that perfect song to play next. You must know your records and if they are all quality tunes and mix well together, you should have no problem.

Finally, to answer the original question, do not pre-plan live sets. You should already have a basic idea of what songs mix well together if you know your records like the back of your hand, so therefore, no pre-planning is really necessary. The only thing I would have set in stone is the first couple of tunes as well as what tracks you want as you peakers and the last couple of tunes. For a demo mix, then it's ok to pre-plan as you want the mix to be flawless and seamless. This is what I do.

quote:

Originally posted by davepiazza If you play house ( which you said you did) than you should be able to rock ANY crowd playing your house music.

I don't think this is totally true. For instance, say I showed up to a club to see some big trance DJ and whilst waiting for them to come on the opener was playing a bunch of hip-hop. I can tell you right now I would be nowhere near the dance floor. No matter how good he thought the hip-hop he was playing was I sure as hell wouldn't dance to it b/c I don't like it in the first place. So you saying that a good DJ of a certain style should be able to get any crowd to dance to his music doesn't hold alot of water IMO. If you play Trance to a crowd who's showed up on hip-hop nite you will most likely crash and burn.

For alot of DJ's on here DJing is a job. If they don't spin they don't pay the bills but saying that a primarily house DJ that is spinning hip-hop for a gig is comprimising artistical integrity is stupid. You play what the venue dictates. If it's hip-hop nite and you're working it you play hip-hop. If you don't want to play hip-hop then you need to ask yourself what exactly you're doing working a hip-hop nite.

IMO, you can DJ every form of music and still be an artist. In fact, I have alot of respect for DJ's that do multiple genres. I think you need alot more skill to be able to spin multiple genres and do it successfully. I'm not saying that DJ's that spin solely one genre suck, but I have alot of repect for the DJ that can rock a club one nite with banging house or trance and then the next nite rock the same club with hip-hop.

I am in the middle of this argument. I agree with Freak's "appropriate music for appropriate crowd" stance and I agree with Dave's "jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none" stance.

Therefore, if you spin house or trance, then what the hell are you doing on hip-hop night. You will empty the dance floor very quickly. Spin on the trance/house night instead. If there is no market for trance, then either change your style or find something instead of DJ'ing.

I am not directing my comment at anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Intrigue Wow. I don't really know where to begin with this one, but I'll try to touch on a few points. Dave, I'll say for instance that you are playing house music for a crowd. If the crowd is not feeling the music and want you to play hip-hop, how does that make you a shit dj? You must look at the venue and the type of musical preference that the people attending have. If you are playing house to a hip-hop crowd, that simply means that the audience does not like the style of music. That in no way dictates shitness on the part of the dj. Now, if a house dj spins at a place where dance music and especially house is dominant, then they should rock the place because of the music, unless of course their skills suck to begin with. I do agree with you about picking your venues according to music. Why would you play a hip-hop night if you were a dance music dj? You wouldn't. You would want to play a gig that hosts dance music. Also being a house dj, there is no way I'd spin at a hip-hop gig. Then I'd have to buy a completely different set of music and spend more money on something that I don't like. As far as reading the crowd goes, you have to do it. Maybe not to the bloated extent that people on this board say, but at least bring the energy level up and down according to the dance floor and crowd reaction. IMO, it's total bullshit to have to sweat bullets just to find that perfect song to play next. You must know your records and if they are all quality tunes and mix well together, you should have no problem. Finally, to answer the original question, do not pre-plan live sets. You should already have a basic idea of what songs mix well together if you know your records like the back of your hand, so therefore, no pre-planning is really necessary. The only thing I would have set in stone is the first couple of tunes as well as what tracks you want as you peakers and the last couple of tunes. For a demo mix, then it's ok to pre-plan as you want the mix to be flawless and seamless. This is what I do.

I agree 100%. However a few points I would like to stress.

1) AS you and I have mentioned selecting your gigs, knowing the venue, knwoing the crowd is just as vital as knowing your records. Obviously even if your Sasha and you book a gig for hip hop night in NYC your gonna fail. AS I said the true test the true test of ones excellence as a DJ comes when you play in front of a "friendly" crowd.
When money becomes a priority for you as a DJ you begin to pick any venue and as a result play what ever music is required that night.Thus money as the motivating factor for dj'ing not only harms your judegement in your venue selection but more importantly ( as mentioned before) harms your artistic intergrity.

2) In my definition of pre-planning this is not what noramly is thought of when people mention the term. In essence they are really refereing to planning the entire set reguardless of thedance floor. From my posts I clearly have said that understanding where to go with your mix based on the crowd is vital. However, I beleive you can program the mini elements of your mix. But than based on the crowd reaction you need to "peice togther" thsoe mini elements to rock the crowd.


THe most important point to make is this:

You can not 1) be on top of the music 2) buy all the new releases or 3) collect a diverse collection of tunes if your are into more than two genre.

UNLESS

a) you pick anthems for each genre
b) have a very limited collection for each genre
c) are in massive debt or have massive cash to finance this project.

THUS for new dj's its wise to tell them to narrow your musical style. Not only for integerity but also financially

I usually have a plan for the first 2 or 3 records but after that it's by the seat of my pants.

But yeah, you can't just slam on any track, there has to be some sort of reasonable transition that is somewhat smooth. You are after all the DJ.

Prepicking an entire set would kind of take away the interaction with the crowd. You are there to share music with the crowd, not dictate to the crowd. Its gotta be a little give and take. Somehow I don't think you can guess what a vibe is going to be like all night long the afternoon before your set.

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