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get ready, afghanistan about to be attacked

tony blair is gonna declare strikes against targets inside afghanistan on tuesday..

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/s...latestheadlines

peace

arggg...i'm gonna post an article i read that was really good on this matter.

different perspective of the issue...

Well worth the Read.....
The following was written by Tamim Ansary, an Afghani-American writer.
He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life.
When he writes, I read.
When he talks, I listen.
Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.

==============

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do? Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.

I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan.

The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan - a country with no economy, no food.
There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land! mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not
overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.

Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer?
They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.
Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing.
Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban-by
raping once again the people they've been raping all this time

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling.
The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed.
Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks.

Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're fli! rting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.
That's why he did this.
Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.
It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever
that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary

Very Well written......has changed my view!

But still, whats the solution?

quote:

Originally posted by barry_sheen Very Well written......has changed my view! But still, whats the solution?

that was the point of posting this article. just in case people see it so that they do realize that this is the reality of our situation.

as for your question...i really don't know...all i can do is pray...

Thanx Lynx for the information.
I guess he is the first that has the power to say this to the world. This "collateral damage" bullshit was used by the americans in Bosnia too. It's like they would do the same thing, yet under a different name, just because they are americans. and this is not the first time this would happen. Hey, maybe the terrorists thought of the same thing, collateral damage.

from the beginning one could tell that Bin Laden had some plan. a very good plan. because he messed up with the (aparent) world first military power. yet, if a war ignits, it will be a fierce battle. remember Afghanistan's history. Think of the religious princiuples of the Islam. And think how many enemies the americans have.

What would be the result? I am not so sure the west will win as Mr. Tamim Ansary is. It would seem obvious, but maybe it is another move which Bin Laden has predicted, that the americans will start fighting imediatelly...

omg, you guys are starting to sound like you are pro-taliban. I believe some one posted: "remember, the Taliban and Bin Laden aren't Afghanistan." umm, yea basically they are. that's just like saying :"america isn't the usa." sure, there are innocent people in Afghanistan, but if they are so innocent then why do they live in a country who's religion believes ''western civilization is evil, and fighting/dying in a wholy war would bring them to a higher level of ecstacy in heaven."

and people who say : " Russia didn't succeed in Afghanistan when they tried to take it over, so the same thing will happen to America if they tried to invade..." DONT FORGET, AMERICA FREAKIN SUPPLIED AFGHANISTAN WITH WEAPONS AND TRAINING TO HELP THEM DEFEAT RUSSIA. Also, don't forget we have around 10 times the military power to defeat the Afghani's, not to mention we have NATO supporting us, an airforce (which Afghanistan doesn't have), a navy (which afghanistan doesn't have) and nuclear tactics (which afghanistan doesnt have)...

go compare America's military to Afghanistans (get some statistics)...and remember: we WONT supply Afghanistan with weapons and 'training' to defend themselves this time (like we did for them against Russia)

my 200 cents

quote:

Also, don't forget we have around 10 times the military power to defeat the Afghani's, not to mention we have NATO supporting us, an airforce (which Afghanistan doesn't have), a navy (which afghanistan doesn't have) and nuclear tactics (which afghanistan doesnt have)...

then why is amercia freaking out about this if they're not genuinely scared of losing this "freedom" i keep hearing about?

america's ego took a severe bashing and so now, like the proverbial jock that is america, "we" are gonna go beat some ass. how f*ing neaderthal.

i love that article that lynx posted. the comparison to the nazis i think is a very good way of thinking about this. in the past few years, the afghani people (esp women & children) have suffered untold miseries at the hands of their gov't. america's stupid war for "freedom" will just be kicking the afghani people when theyre down to make "us" look like "we" don't take no crap. bin laden's obviously not stupid--he's probably not even physically in afghanistan.

WAR IS STUPID period.

if the gov'ts want to have dick-measuring contests, they should go do it on a far-away planet somewhere and leave the people alone.

Wow!

Great insight with the articles. Remember, this runs much deeper than America's Ego. More Americans died in one day, compared to any other conflict in our history. Almost 10 percent of all Viet Nam Deaths in one day! This is not a Smudge to American's Ego, this is a attempt at destroying our nation and western ideals. Our way of life which lets us sit on the computer dowloading trance music for most of our days(LOL). It's difficult to say, if a peaceful resolve will even be possible. This cancer in the middle east will not be going away anytime soon. Furthermore,this is not just an American issue. This wound falls on most western nations. It's just America that took this tragic event for that day. Other nations could have been selected just as easily. However you look at it, someone is going to get screwed over. I doubt it will be the USA when this all clears. Does it ever end?

PLUR

that was a nice article...but i already posted that same article!!! (thread was "an afghani-american's take")...it made sum excellent points, that guy is brilliant

anyway its good that u posted it cos sum mo ppl can read it

i wanna address a number of points raised by plastike that i dont agree with...

1)didn't u read the article lynx posted already?? anyway, in case u haven't, the reason is that they are shit scared of the taliban...just the other day they showed video footage on ABC of the taliban literally slicing off people's throats and hanging them ON THE STREET for their misbehavior...women are beaten savagely even if their scarves fall off their faces BY MISTAKE...besides, most of them are starving....and the reason they still live in afghanistan is because it takes money to migrate to decent places like the usa or anywhere else...those who could have already left the land...the only ppl. left are the uneducated, downtrodden ppl...most of the taliban government is uneducated anyway...migrating to pakistan wouldn't help, because that country is hardly any better...and yes, there IS an ongoing reistance movement already in existence in afghanistan...its called the "northern alliance"...read about it in the newspapers or on the internet

2:yes, we did supply them with arms to resist the russians...but that doesn't change anything. in fact, it makes the situation that much WORSE for us, because now they know how the american military trains and fights

as for your point about how much superior the american military is...havent u been following the news?? this is NOT a conventional war...there are NO targets of any value to bomb...it was the same way with the russians, their conventional forces were far superior, but they still got their ass kicked..(even tho america supplied them with arms, they didn't supply SO many that the afghans had even more than the russians...)

but if no1 supplies the afghans with any weapons (if we can seal off the border in some way), then we have a very strong chance of defeating them completely..

peace

I'm really glad that guys like plastikE seem to be the minority of americans at least here in this forum.

i dunno why im posting this but i got this on icq

http://vatican.***********/head-of-terrorist/
(dont click if u get sick easily)


well u now can see what alot of ppl think of terrorists and what ppl want done with them.....i must have recieved this message from over 10 ppl..=( i dunno if they find it to be comforting or what but either way theres gonna be war

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEGIRL [B] WAR IS STUPID period.

If it wasn't for war, then you wouldn't have the freedoms and rights you do now!! Hitler would be reigning (because we would be pussies and scared to ''fight a war, because it's DUMB!!! *sigh*)....''WAR IS DUMB''....I HAVE AN IDEA!!!! LETS NOT RETALIATE AND LET THE TERRORISTS HIT US AGAIN AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!!! YA!!!!!

"cweb: I'm really glad that guys like plastikE seem to be the minority of americans at least here in this forum. "

would you care to tell me why instead of making an incompetent post without backing it up with facts or opinions?? *sigh* TA might as well join the taliban's side.....

war is still stupid

bin laden (or whoever bombed ny) didnt do it because they resent "our freedom." they did it with a very specific agenda in mind. ill quote the article:

quote:

It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.

the reason he targeted america is because "we" have built up "our" country to be this [militarily] untouchable monolith and they knew that amercia could not just let something like this slide. and becasue of america's ego, "we" are falling right into his trap.

war is stupid because all those afghani people that will die as a result of this have nothing to do with bin laden or the attack. war is stupid because all the americans that have to go to war for this will die as pawns between the us president and bin laden.

if the us wants to retaliate, if they want blood, then they should direct their anger at bin laden--not his victims in afghanistan.

hrm i dunno if im repeating anything...but were not killing civilians. hey, remeber when we used to bomb iraq? well, im sure at least 80% of all the civil casualties are because of human shields. the taliban desveres it up the booty. and whoever said that without war, much of europe would be under nazi regime is totally correct. remember guys:

"To Risk Nothing is to Risk Even More"

this "freedom" bullshit the american politicians keep mentioning guys, well guess what - its called propaganda. its a commonly used tool in scenarios like these to blind the people of what is really going on and to make sure they back the government's every move. bombing afghanistan will not be productive it will just kill ordinary people - the same kind of ordinary people that were killed in the WTC. now if i remember my kindergarten teacher correctly, two wrongs dont make a right...but the u.s. government doesnt seem to realize this or DOES realize this but doesnt want to look like a so called "sissy"...im not saying that we shouldnt do anything, but the plan in mind will acomplish absolutely nothing. does anyone really think that dropping bombs on cities will stop terrorism? far from it. its like your dog eating your homework only you punish the cat instead. does this make sense? because thats whats going on here..and not to "put down" the u.s. or anything, but we have been responsible for so many atrocities throughout the world that they are countless..we dont like another countrys leader? lets kill him..we dont like the soviets? lets supply another countrys diputes with them with weapons to hit them hard..do certain countries provide a gain for us? let them do what they want to other people and we'll just turn the other way and pay no attention..it seems to me that the u.s. got a taste of its own medicine that weve been shovng down other countries throats and we didnt like the taste one bit...

Re: war is still stupid

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEGIRL war is stupid because all those afghani people that will die as a result of this have nothing to do with bin laden or the attack. war is stupid because all the americans that have to go to war for this will die as pawns between the us president and bin laden.

ok but look at the other side if we dont go to war innocent people will die in the hands of the taliban as they are now. every one has pointed out how the taliban scare their poeple and do inimaginable things to them

point is innconets will die if war breaks out or if it doesnt. at least with war you're fighting for a "better" cause.

saying "war is stupid" is being a tad uneducated in my point of view. think about what your life means and what you are will to die/fight for

quote:

it seems to me that the u.s. got a taste of its own medicine that weve been shovng down other countries throats and we didnt like the taste one bit...

That's just wrong. I really don't know what to say about that one except what medicine are we getting a taste of? I've never herd of the US attacking innocent people else where. If seeing people around the states protesting AGAINST our retaliation isn't bad enough, there's idiots like you saying we deserve it. I just wonder what is going on in the minds of you people doing these things. Yeah, don't retaliate and let them think that they can get away with acts like these...because if we don't retaliate they will think this way, and they will slowly pick away at America with more attacks trying to destroy us. Not you, or me even knows the full extent of what's really going on anyways. If put in a percentage, I bet that the public only knows no more than ten percent of what is going on in this ordeal. We only know what has happened and what the government want's us to know. I have a good friend that's a high ranking officer in the military and he told me once that "You wouldn't sleep if night if you knew what I know about what goes on in the world". I pray for him and everyone else that is standing up for america because there will be more attacks both ways, and in the end America will stand tall like she always has.

bro what are you talking about you said it yourself the people in this country dont know anything that is going on around the world pick up a non - biased history book and youll see what the u.s. has done when it comes to their interests..and the medicine were getting a taste of is the force and terrorism - yes, terrorism that we put on other people. ofcourse the government daoesnt say everything that it does you proved that by mentioning your military friend and the things he knows.. bro what do you think the united states is? innocent and always out to do good and keep the peace? maybe it was that one time long ago but it DEFINATELY isnt that today..i know what goes on in the world i grew up in europe and there they dont sensor the news like they do here so take a trip and maybe youll see what i mean..and when exactly did i say that the u.s. deserves it? the people certainly do not deserve it. the people - keyword here. and btw i dont appreciate you calling me an idiot..im a well - read, well - educated individual and just because i differ in opinion doesnt mean you have to call me that

guys, don't show ignorance even if U have it!
don't say "we won't kill civils.." cause U will! (the americans will.. I get very enthusiastic...) It is unavoidable! and if I here anyone sayin' about the collateral damage bullshit, I'm telling him to shove it up already, think he is a collateral damage of the homosexuals and then fsee how he feels! (no offense to the sexual minorities; just as I don't want to bring any offenses to americans or afghans)

Bin Laden is the reason for this shit. He is the one that must get fuked, his men maybe, but don't waste a whole country just so someone prooves how big of a shit he is!!!

thats a very insiteful article and i think some of you guys need to chill. perdonally id love to go bomb or whatever but it wont accomplish what we want to do over there hence this is why its been 3 weeks and no attack ahhhhh! ding ding ding we have a winner!i am a very patriotic american and have been even before i was in the military. but if any of you guys that live in the states and actually watch the news just pay attention to the news briefings i think youll get the idea of whats goin on here. its not gonna be anykind of massive airstrikes, it not gonna be an invasion too much to loose ie life and islamic backing and not to metion a logistcal nightmare personally i think the government is handling this exceptionally well no rash moves have been made nothing out of haste or pure vengences. this is a very delicate situation that this country can handle in several ways hopefully we as a collective society can get this situation resolved. ah there are many things i can say but i would just babble on and on so ill stop wait and listen before making too many assumptions like i think alot of people should do


peace out god bless america and the rest of ya too

Juz

Support Greek 100pro. Sorry, but whats this hiroshima thing really about??? Are there any miltary bases there, not many. They killed 10times as many innocent people, but they dont call that terrorist attacks, they call that coleteral damage, fuckt them! yeah, yeah, america was in war against the japs, but is this a reason to release a bomb, you have no idea how it will affect the nature? And they did that not once but twice!! and believe it or not, but bin laden has DECLARED war against the USA, so is there so a big difference between those two attacks. I mean that these countries can not make a convential war against the power of america, they must lokk for another possibility. I do by no means justify attacks, but you have to quit this "good/bad"-frame and to say that TA is leading to taliban is just totally bullshit, plastikE. In these time, no one seems to have the right to critic the US, or else he is of course a terrorist.
The USA is not the fighter for freedom, thats maybe there second idea, but like the Swiss (fuck UBS, youre responsible for this swissair-mess)or any other western country, it is controlled by the economie.

quote:

Originally posted by cweb and to say that TA is leading to taliban is just totally bullshit, plastikE.

is sarcasmn NOT allowed on these boards anymore?!?! man, i was making a ''sarcastic'' remark and it wasn't meant to be takin blantinly. *sigh*

>

ok sorry dude, bad day I guess.

thats why i say evgeryone move to Canada....we never have any foreign relation problems just economy problems.....and we have alot of room for ppl....No War all party the only crappy thing is marajuana isnt legeal but we're working on that So come one come all....We dont even have an army to get into a war woot!

yea canada

that's tempting! it's scary living here now. my roommate is indian and i guess people think he looks arab and he gets threats of being beaten up and gets called "sand n*gger" on a regular basis so much negativity!! i really do wanna leave the country...

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