TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry
Pages (2): [1] 2 »


Posted by Renegade on Sep-27-2004 03:08:

Thumbs up It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Poll Of 35 Countries Finds 30 Prefer Kerry, 3 Bush

Traditional US Allies Strongly Favor Kerry

Bush Preferred in Philippines, Poland and Nigeria

Most Say Bush Foreign Policy Has Made Them Feel Worse Toward US
Washington DC: In 30 out of 35 countries polled, from all regions of the world, a majority or plurality would prefer to see John Kerry win the US presidential election�especially traditional US allies. The only countries where President Bush was preferred were the Philippines, Nigeria, and Poland. India and Thailand were divided. On average, Kerry was favored by more than a two-to-one margin�46% to 20% (weighted for variations in population, the ratio was not significantly different). Overall, one-third did not give an answer.

The poll of 34,330 people was conducted mainly during June through August, with some countries being polled as early as May. Polling was conducted by GlobeScan and its worldwide network of research institutes, in conjunction with the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) of the University of Maryland. Due to the difficulties of polling in developing countries, in eleven countries, polling was limited to metropolitan areas. The margin of error ranged from +/- 2.3-5%.

Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, �Only one in five want to see Bush reelected. Though he is not as well known, Kerry would win handily if the people of the world were to elect the US president.� Support for Kerry was greater among those with higher education and income levels.

Asked how the foreign policy of President Bush has affected their feelings toward the US, in 30 countries a majority or plurality said it made them feel �worse� about America, while in 3 countries, more of the respondents said that it had made them feel �better� towards America, and in 2 countries, people were divided. On average, 53% of respondents said Bush�s foreign policy made them feel worse about the US, while 19% said it made them feel better.

GlobeScan President Doug Miller says, �Perhaps most sobering for Americans is the strength of the view that US foreign policy is on the wrong track, even in countries contributing troops in Iraq.�

<< RESUME READING >>

Kerry was strongly preferred among all of America�s traditional allies. These included Norway (74% for Kerry to 7% for Bush), Germany (74% to 10%), France (64% to 5%), the Netherlands (63% to 6%), Italy (58% to 14%), and Spain (45% to 7%). Even in the UK, Kerry was preferred by more than 30 percentage points (47% to 16%). Among Canadians, Kerry was preferred by 61% to 16% and among the Japanese by 43% to 23%.

The exception for Bush in Europe was a new ally, Poland, where he was preferred by a narrow plurality of 31% against 26% for Kerry. Another new ally, however, the Czech Republic, went for Kerry (42% to 18%), as did Sweden (58% to 10%),

Asia was the most mixed region, though Kerry still did better. He was preferred by clear majorities in China (52% to 12%) and Indonesia (57% to 34%), as well as by a large margin in Japan (43% to 23%). But publics were divided in India (Kerry 34%, Bush 33%) and Thailand (Kerry 30%, Bush 33%).

Asia was also the sole region in which Bush garnered more than 50 percent support from a country, with 57% of Filipinos favoring him (Kerry 32%). Bush�s post-9/11 aid to the Filipino government�s efforts against the terrorist group Abu Sayyaf may have engendered significant goodwill.

Latin Americans went for Kerry in all nine countries polled. In only two cases did Kerry win a majority�Brazil (57% to 14%) and the Dominican Republic (51% to 38%)�but in most cases the spread was quite wide. These included Venezuela (48% to 22%), Colombia (47% to 26%), Argentina (43% to 6%), Mexico (38% to 18%), Uruguay (37% to 5%), Peru (37% to 26%), and Bolivia (25% to 16%).

Bush was preferred in Nigeria with 33%, as compared to 27% for Kerry. However, Kerry was preferred in the five other African states polled, including Kenya (58% to 25%), Ghana (48% to 24%), Tanzania (44% to 30%), South Africa (43% to 29%), and Zimbabwe (28% to 6%).

In Eurasian states, Kerry led, though a significant number did not express a preference. In Russia, Kerry was preferred 20% to 10%, Turkey 40% to 25%, and in Kazakhstan 40% to 12%.

Interestingly, among countries that have contributed troops to the operation in Iraq, most favored Kerry and said that their view of the US has gotten worse with Bush�s foreign policy. These include the UK, the Czech Republic, Italy, the Netherlands, the Dominican Republic, Kazakhstan, Japan, Norway, and Spain. Thailand was divided on Kerry and Bush (33% Bush�30% Kerry). But slightly more Thais said their view of the US has gotten better (35% to 30% worse).

However, this group also included the two countries most favorable to Bush�the Philippines and Poland. Among Filipinos, 57% said they prefer Bush over Kerry, and 58% say that their view of US foreign policy has gotten better. But among Poles, though a modest plurality favored Bush (31% to 26%), a plurality of 41% said that their view of US foreign policy has gotten worse, while only 15% said it has gotten better.

Strongest negative views of US foreign policy were held in Germany (83% say �worse�), France (81%), Mexico (78%), China (72%), Canada (71%), Netherlands (71%), Spain (67%), Brazil (66%), Italy (66%), Argentina (65%), and the UK (64%). The only countries in which more said that the Bush foreign policy made them feel better toward the US were: the Philippines, (58% better-27% worse), India (38% better�33% worse) and Thailand (35% better and 30% worse). Nigeria was divided (36% better�34% worse) as was Venezuela (33% better-34% worse).

GlobeScan Incorporated is a global public opinion and stakeholder research firm with offices in Toronto, London and Washington. GlobeScan conducts custom research and annual tracking studies on global issues. With a research network spanning 40+ countries, GlobeScan works with global companies, multilateral agencies, national governments and non-government organizations to deliver research-based insights for successful strategies.

The Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) is a joint program of the Center on Policy Attitudes and the Center for International and Security Studies at the University of Maryland. PIPA undertakes research on attitudes in both the public and in the policymaking community toward a variety of international and foreign policy issues. It seeks to disseminate its findings to members of government, the press, and the public as well as academia.


http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/P...ew_9_08_04.html

Somehow I doubt that the Bush supporters will be too bothered by this, but it does underline how damaging Bush has been for the reputation of the US around the globe. We foreigners just don't understand how someone like Bush could ever be elected (let alone be in with a strong chance of re-election) and these sort of polls make me wish that the views of the average American were more in-tune with those of us in the rest of the world. If Bush gets another 4 years, it will be interesting to see how many allies the US has left by the end of it.


Posted by PhloTron on Sep-27-2004 03:32:

Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade

We foreigners just don't understand how someone like Bush could ever be elected (let alone be in with a strong chance of re-election)



That's a very good point...most views on our leader(s) are simply because most people in the rest of the world don't know very much about the whole of US Politics...They know about who is in charge and the policies they carry toward their (foreign)nation...(foreign policy). And no matter how crappy it is right now and how are relations are strained...and some decisions poor (very poor), there is so much more at stake in many peoples minds that just one topic.


Also, most people would base their opinion, for/against the person in charge (Bush)...and if against, simply pick the other candidate...I'm guessing 99% of the rest of the world never even heard of John Kerry prior to his nomination to run in the election.

Yes, most of the world probably can't fathomm how we could possibly re-elect Bush. But, there is a lot more to a candidate/party than one or two things...and there are many people that bennefited or felt comforatable with the first 4 years of service (no matter how hard that is to believe). But just like people will vote for Kerry, not because they like him, but they hate Bush...people will vote for Bush based on the same thing...they aren't happy with what Kerry has to say either.

I don't know what this poll was exactly like, but if you put a poll out in the world...or the US...that had a choice of Bush, Kerry, or "someone else"....these days "someone else"...might just run away with it.

quote:

and these sort of polls make me wish that the views of the average American were more in-tune with those of us in the rest of the world.


...or that the views of the rest of the world knew what ALL the issues we are faced with in this upcomming election...and the next 4 years...guessing the #'s would move closer to the middle though they still may favor Kerry.


I can make an opinion on who I think should run, say Austrailia...but I don't think it would be an educated choice, based on the fact I only know a little bit (mostly foreign policy) about what the country and leaders follow. I would expect this to be the same for most people looking from the outside in. Hell...I can barely make an educated decision about the best candidates here...because you don't know if anything is true anymore...except the dollar signs coming out of their campaigns.


With all that in mind...maybe it's not as far fetched as it should seem that we are 50/50 out here right now...and that it's possible that Bush may win the popular vote and lose the electoral...and get slapped in the face just like the "intraweb inventor" did in 2000.

D'oH!


Posted by trancaholic on Sep-27-2004 05:57:

Re: Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

Nice post PhloTron.
quote:
Originally posted by PhloTron
...or that the views of the rest of the world knew what ALL the issues we are faced with in this upcomming election...and the next 4 years...

Sometimes, however, the conduct shown on one point can outshine all other matters. To me, for instance, having been lied to by my government (as the world was lied to by the Bush administration) would render its efficiency on health care, crime etc. inconsequential: The act of deception tells of a twisted ethical code, and hence, I would be hesitant to trust the government with more years.


Posted by Q5echo on Sep-27-2004 06:16:

the world would prefer the teletubbies to Bush.


still doesn't say a whole lot about Kerry.


Posted by JM on Sep-27-2004 06:28:

its funny now people in other countries have no clue what the fuck is going on here in the USA and what the issues are. i would guess most of these people polled know shit besides what they know about the war, and nobody like war... of course, if i was ignorant on issues other than media's coverage of the war, and terrorism in general didn't affect my country, i'd be up for kerry too.

actually on second though, i wouldnt. because i KNOW the issues apart from the war.

>JM<


Posted by Yoepus on Sep-27-2004 06:31:

Its official: The US doesn't care.


Posted by jrbuddha on Sep-27-2004 06:52:

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
Its official: The US doesn't care.




in fact, reading this article makes me even happier to vote for Bush.


Posted by Arbiter on Sep-27-2004 07:53:

I agree the the world would probably go for pretty much any candidate running against Bush at the moment. The opinions of the rest of the world doesn't mean much to me, though. Those outside the U.S. are typically neither qualified nor empowered to select a leader for this country. Those inside the U.S. suffer only from the former impediment.


Posted by policerobots on Sep-27-2004 08:57:

whoever wins, the whole world will still watch the movies hollywood makes (+tv shows), wear american brand clothes, and listen to rappers from the us.


Posted by NYCTrancefan on Sep-27-2004 13:27:

Why is it so hard for many Americans here to even consider what others are saying. Is it that we are that arrogant and bullish that listening to others is not even to be considered. I see comments like who cares, so what, oh well they'll still listen to our music, etc. It is this very kind of American arrogance that the world is complaining about. Nothing is lost in treating others with respect, partnership and trusted leadership. Maybe it is because I share a deep appreciation for other cultures and socieities, what I refer to as a global mentality that I have these views.

My fellow Americans, America is a nation that I want to see be of positive leadership in the world not negative domination of others. No one wants to be told what to do by others, yet we do it all the time to other nations, yet when told how we are we don't like it


Posted by LiquidX on Sep-27-2004 13:28:

Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/P...ew_9_08_04.html

Somehow I doubt that the Bush supporters will be too bothered by this, but it does underline how damaging Bush has been for the reputation of the US around the globe. We foreigners just don't understand how someone like Bush could ever be elected (let alone be in with a strong chance of re-election) and these sort of polls make me wish that the views of the average American were more in-tune with those of us in the rest of the world. If Bush gets another 4 years, it will be interesting to see how many allies the US has left by the end of it.


That's easy to answer. Most people around the world arent as ignorant as it tends to be here in the US. People here are not too into politics, and usually take what they are fed, and FOX news has done a pretty good job to be as biased as possible, and deliver distorted news. Most of it's viewers have the most untrue and distorted answers .. and sadly, major news networks here in the US tend to be very restricted when it comes to this Administration. It's the first time that reporters are soooo restrcited on asking BUSH questions, and this administration takes everything so secretly. All that plays a role on how people in the US see it.. it's all about been educated and researching, something that most of the people in the US dont bother doing, thinking that FOX is " FAIR AND BALANCED".


Posted by NYCTrancefan on Sep-27-2004 13:33:

Re: Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
That's easy to answer. Most people around the world arent as ignorant as it tends to be here in the US. People here are not too into politics, and usually take what they are fed, and FOX news has done a pretty good job to be as biased as possible, and deliver distorted news. Most of it's viewers have the most untrue and distorted answers .. and sadly, major news networks here in the US tend to be very restricted when it comes to this Administration. It's the first time that reporters are soooo restrcited on asking BUSH questions, and this administration takes everything so secretly. All that plays a role on how people in the US see it.. it's all about been educated and researching, something that most of the people in the US dont bother doing, thinking that FOX is " FAIR AND BALANCED".


I witnessed the other day that Fair and Balanced cut away from John Kerry outlining his points to deal with Iraq and terrorism to show Bush talking about kids who sent gifts to children in Beslan. Which one was more important, they could have certainly recorded that and showed it 10 minutes later. While the other three networks was showing Kerry they were talking about that. Fair and Balanced for sure, guess that's why they always have to pat themselves on the back with that line.

While I am no U.N lover Fox has gone overboard with their U.N. attacks on a daily basis, you would believe that the U.N. was part of the War on Terror and the badguy. Fox News caters to an audience that appreciates what they have to say but just don't call that Fair and Balanced. I agree wholeheartedly with you Liquid.


Posted by policerobots on Sep-27-2004 14:23:

I see where youre coming from.

I must agree that theres nothing wrong with treating people with respect and hearing out their opinion. But in the end, actions speak louder than words. We can get all touchy-feely about our emotions and feelings towards our allies, but in the end someone has to take the lead and do what he beleives is right. (whether you think whatever is right or wrong is a different story)

Im sure the US has asked numerous countries in the world to see if they want to support the effort in Iraq. If they did, good for them. if they didn't, then that's their choice.

popularity is not leadership.


Posted by Shakka on Sep-27-2004 16:08:

It's official: The world doesn't vote in U.S. elections.


Posted by BadBadNeil on Sep-27-2004 16:45:

Re: Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
That's easy to answer. Most people around the world arent as ignorant as it tends to be here in the US. People here are not too into politics, and usually take what they are fed, and FOX news has done a pretty good job to be as biased as possible, and deliver distorted news. Most of it's viewers have the most untrue and distorted answers .. and sadly, major news networks here in the US tend to be very restricted when it comes to this Administration. It's the first time that reporters are soooo restrcited on asking BUSH questions, and this administration takes everything so secretly. All that plays a role on how people in the US see it.. it's all about been educated and researching, something that most of the people in the US dont bother doing, thinking that FOX is " FAIR AND BALANCED".


Fair and balanced to whom?


Posted by LiquidX on Sep-27-2004 19:02:

Re: Re: Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
Fair and balanced to whom?


Thats the FOX slogan.. .. and exactly, to who, you should ask them that question lol. Maybe to the very conservative it is


Posted by sensorium on Sep-27-2004 19:08:

It's official: The world didn't like Bush 4 years ago to begin with.


Posted by policerobots on Sep-27-2004 19:40:

Its Offical: Please stop saying Its Official.


Posted by Massive84 on Sep-27-2004 19:43:

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
It's official: The world doesn't vote in U.S. elections.


as much as i like this Article, i have to agree with you.

this won't do shit , holland also don't want bush, 53% wants kerry, i remember 8% wants Bush and the rest don't really care.

But in the end the Americans vote not the world, and like the other guy said, it only takes easy manupilation to make the outcome clear..

example:

suddenly Bin Laden got killed or captured, then we have 4 more years Bush.

To tell you the truth, i don't like the American politic system, it's to closed and narrow, you can only pick out of 2 parties, and they all have the same thing in mind..power.

I know Bush sux, i only seen him do bad things, even for his own nation, war, people getting beheaded, more terrorism. I really wonder why someone would choose Bush again, BUT why is Kerry better?

I really want to see some proof that Kerry is better for this world, for all we know he wins and ruins the world even more..

I have no faith in America


Posted by Renegade on Sep-27-2004 19:49:

Re: Re: It's Official: The World Prefers Kerry

quote:
Originally posted by PhloTron
That's a very good point...most views on our leader(s) are simply because most people in the rest of the world don't know very much about the whole of US Politics...


I think you underestimate just how pervasive US politics is in the international media. While perhaps the average global citizen is likely to know less about the state of US politics than the average American citizen, to presume that they "don't know very much" about the state of US politics is likely to be quite wrong. I, for instance, probably know more about US politics at the moment than Australian politics - not because I go out of my way to learn about US politics either, but because the mass of information about the US (on the internet, TV and print media) far exceeds that printed about Australia. Now I'm sure that I'm quite unique in this regard (most global citizens will obviously be more familiar with the state of their own nation than the state of the US), but don't make the presumption that people outside of the US are in no position to understand or comment on it - we probably know a great deal more about your politics than you'd otherwise guess.

quote:
They know about who is in charge and the policies they carry toward their (foreign)nation...(foreign policy). And no matter how crappy it is right now and how are relations are strained...and some decisions poor (very poor), there is so much more at stake in many peoples minds that just one topic.


But this is what we don't understand - on what policies has Bush actually succeeded? Even ignoring his multitude of failed foreign policy initiatives, what has he done exceedingly well (or, at least, well enough to warrant re-election) domestically? On what specific topics, do you think, have people been convinced to vote for Bush? If you want my opinion it is ignorance about governmental policies and their consequences that is helping Bush win the election, not familiarity with them. It's no coincidence that rates of misapprehension about basic issues (such as Saddam / Al Qaeda ties, Iraq / 9/11 ties, the existence of WMD in Iraq etc.) are demonstrably higher amongst Republican voters than Democratic voters and amongst Americans than civilians anywhere else on the globe.

Part of it is willful ignorance (if we can repeat a lie to ourselves often enough, we might eventually think it true) but much of it has to do with the US media's complicity in Bush's illadvised policy adventures in the two or so years after 9/11. While the balance has largely returned now, the fact that Bush was not held accountable for his actions for so long in the US by its media probably constitutes much of the reason why the US has, in the past for years, become ideologically out-of-sync with the rest of the world. It's difficult to make an informed, democratic decision when half of what's happened hasn't even been reported by the media.

In short, then, what issues do you believe are pertinent to Americans that might not have been considered by us foreigners in deciding that Kerry is the better candidate?

quote:
Also, most people would base their opinion, for/against the person in charge (Bush)...and if against, simply pick the other candidate...I'm guessing 99% of the rest of the world never even heard of John Kerry prior to his nomination to run in the election.


So a no-name is much more popular than Bush? What does that say about Bush?

Besides, don't forget that non-responses were included too (making up to 50% of the survey numbers in some places). If people were just selecting against Bush rather than for Kerry, I doubt these numbers would have been so high.

quote:
Yes, most of the world probably can't fathomm how we could possibly re-elect Bush. But, there is a lot more to a candidate/party than one or two things...and there are many people that bennefited or felt comforatable with the first 4 years of service (no matter how hard that is to believe). But just like people will vote for Kerry, not because they like him, but they hate Bush...people will vote for Bush based on the same thing...they aren't happy with what Kerry has to say either.


Even presuming that this is the case, it still doesn't explain why so many people are willing to vote for Bush (or against Kerry) in the US, but not in the rest of the globe. Again, I can only ask, what is it specifically about Bush that makes him worthy of re-election and why do you presume that we foreigners must be somehow "misinformed" or at least missing some vital piece of the puzzle about George Bush's candidacy?

quote:
I don't know what this poll was exactly like, but if you put a poll out in the world...or the US...that had a choice of Bush, Kerry, or "someone else"....these days "someone else"...might just run away with it.


Possibly, but again: why the disparity in Bush's popularity inside and outside of the US?

quote:
...or that the views of the rest of the world knew what ALL the issues we are faced with in this upcomming election...and the next 4 years...guessing the #'s would move closer to the middle though they still may favor Kerry.


Again, you're presuming that foreigners are only selecting against Bush because we're somehow ignorant of large chunks of administrational policy - if so, what are they?

quote:
I can make an opinion on who I think should run, say Austrailia...but I don't think it would be an educated choice, based on the fact I only know a little bit (mostly foreign policy) about what the country and leaders follow. I would expect this to be the same for most people looking from the outside in.


But the difference is that we know a lot more about US policy than you do about the policies of our respective governments. As the most powerful nation in the world, this sort of scrutiny is to be expected so, once again, don't underestimate out knowledge of what's going on over there.

quote:
Hell...I can barely make an educated decision about the best candidates here...because you don't know if anything is true anymore...except the dollar signs coming out of their campaigns.


Heh, don't worry. Unscrupulous, money-based campaigns between two hardly discernable candidates are not problems confined solely to the US.

quote:
With all that in mind...maybe it's not as far fetched as it should seem that we are 50/50 out here right now...and that it's possible that Bush may win the popular vote and lose the electoral...and get slapped in the face just like the "intraweb inventor" did in 2000.

D'oH!


Let's hope so...


Posted by Renegade on Sep-27-2004 20:03:

quote:
Originally posted by Massive84
as much as i like this Article, i have to agree with you.

this won't do shit


Obviously it's going to have absolutely no effect on the American voting public, but the reason I posted the article was just to highlight exactly how disliked Bush was globally and ask why it is, exactly, that in spite of everything he's done wrong, he still has a 50% backing in the US. What do you guys know that we don't?

quote:
I know Bush sux, i only seen him do bad things, even for his own nation, war, people getting beheaded, more terrorism. I really wonder why someone would choose Bush again, BUT why is Kerry better?

I really want to see some proof that Kerry is better for this world, for all we know he wins and ruins the world even more..


I reccomend visiting his website and reading through his policy initiatives. While I'm not his biggest fan, he does have a lot of good ideas and - of course - can only ever be 20 times the president that George Bush is. He won't be perfect and I'll doubtless be critical of many of his decisions (or lack thereof :-/) when he gets elected, but there isn't much doubt that he's the best available option. I'd prefer him to either of the candidates running to lead my country at least....

quote:
I have no faith in America


That isn't really fair. Excluding the far-rightist, politically active Christians (who only make up a small percentage of the US population but still manage to have a major say in the way the country and the society is run) the US is filled with fair, sensible and reasonably enlightened people. While the US has a number of deep flaws (just like any other nation) that will not be fixed overnight, just keep in mind the notion that less than 20% of Americans voted for Bush in 2000 and that the entire country should not be lumped in with a small (albeit loud and very, very annoying) minority.

America: where 50,456,169 people ruin it for everyone else.


Posted by BadBadNeil on Sep-27-2004 20:30:

quote:
Originally posted by Massive84
To tell you the truth, i don't like the American politic system, it's to closed and narrow, you can only pick out of 2 parties, and they all have the same thing in mind..power.

I know Bush sux, i only seen him do bad things, even for his own nation, war, people getting beheaded, more terrorism. I really wonder why someone would choose Bush again, BUT why is Kerry better?

I really want to see some proof that Kerry is better for this world, for all we know he wins and ruins the world even more..

I have no faith in America


I don't like 2 parties either, maybe 3 or 4 true candidate, not a nader, would be better. That way you don't run into the "i hate him so im voting for the other guy" syndrome.

As far as you knowing about Bush sucking, you are saying based on a global scale. You can not make an informed decision really unless you know his policies towards our country. We are voting for a president for ourselves not for another country.

My girlfriend is choosing Kerry and I asked her why yesterday and she told me that he is more for healthcare for all, will not raise the debt, is more for middle class, and because of the war. Doesn't mean much as I don't agree with her but that was her reasoning for choosing Kerry. From what I see Kerry just says whatever he thinks it will take to win. He can say he is for healthcare for all because he knows it will never pass in senate along with many of his other talking points.

You talk about having faith like we owe the world something. The only thing we owe the world is to choose who is best for ourselves, not for the rest of the world.


Posted by policerobots on Sep-27-2004 20:50:

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
You talk about having faith like we owe the world something. The only thing we owe the world is to choose who is best for ourselves, not for the rest of the world.


Well said my friend...

Looking forward to the debates this week!


Posted by Massive84 on Sep-27-2004 20:53:

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
I don't like 2 parties either, maybe 3 or 4 true candidate, not a nader, would be better. That way you don't run into the "i hate him so im voting for the other guy" syndrome.

glad we agree on something .

quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
As far as you knowing about Bush sucking, you are saying based on a global scale. You can not make an informed decision really unless you know his policies towards our country. We are voting for a president for ourselves not for another country.

So what is the policiy? inform me please, so far i only seen war war war, did he do anything good for the states? because i am sure if he did i would at least read about it in the paper or see it on the news or even read it here on the forums, oh yea he is trying to ban gay marriages, such a great leader!
Yes am basing my sucking info on global scale, but hey why would almost the entire globe say that Bush sucks? There must be a reason dude, so go figur.


quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
My girlfriend is choosing Kerry and I asked her why yesterday and she told me that he is more for healthcare for all, will not raise the debt, is more for middle class, and because of the war. Doesn't mean much as I don't agree with her but that was her reasoning for choosing Kerry. From what I see Kerry just says whatever he thinks it will take to win. He can say he is for healthcare for all because he knows it will never pass in senate along with many of his other talking points.

Indeed, they all promise great things but once they have the seat, they do what they like, Bush will do the same also.


quote:
Originally posted by BadBadNeil
You talk about having faith like we owe the world something. The only thing we owe the world is to choose who is best for ourselves, not for the rest of the world.


ah i see bombing nations, supporting occupation of 6 million people, threating other nations if you don't follow the will of America, killing thousands of people for NO reason etc etc. But hey thats nothing i suppose, it's only good for America so you owe nothing
How about a big appology?


Posted by BadBadNeil on Sep-27-2004 23:53:

quote:

So what is the policiy? inform me please, so far i only seen war war war, did he do anything good for the states? because i am sure if he did i would at least read about it in the paper or see it on the news or even read it here on the forums, oh yea he is trying to ban gay marriages, such a great leader!

Here is a short rundown on some of his policies, the full policy report is over 200 pages.

Budget & Economy
New Prosperity Initiative: remove obstacles to advancement.

China
Agrees with Clinton-Gore: PNTR for China.
China NTR promotes freedom, security and economics.

Civil Rights
GOP to reach out with goal of prosperity for all races.
Enforce civil rights, reform education, help people achieve.

Defense
Increase military salaries & weapons spending.
Develop SDI, even if we must breach ABM treaty.
SDI needed for defense against rogue states & terrorists.

Drugs
Feds must help border counties fight drug traffickers.

Education
�Reading First� confronts a national emergency.
Federal funding & flexible state design for Reading First.

Environment
6-point plan for brownfield cleanup.
Superfund failing: too costly; too litigious; too complex.
Texas record: cleaner air & water; toxic cleanup.
Incentives for private land stewardship & conservation.
Conservation partnerships to protect lands & watersheds.
$60M for private stewardship; tax break on conservation land.

Families & Children
$2.3 billion over 5 years for adoption & child welfare.
Support measures to keep children in their homes.

Government Reform
Reform the court system to serve people, not lawyers.
Restore cooperation with Congress, to accomplish more.
Make govt citizen-centered, results-oriented & market-based.

Gun Control
Government should pay for voluntary trigger locks.

Health Care
New Prosperity Initiative: $2,000 health ins. tax credit.
Expand and Reform Medical Savings Accounts:.
$7.4B for nursing home insurance via tax deductions.
Affordable long-term care instead of financial ruin.
More funding for disability assistance.

Immigration
Latinos enrich us; family values go past Rio Grande.

Social Security
Maintain basics of government�s �most successful program�.
2% real return is not enough; sound investments get 6%.
Support retirement via government-plus-private system.

Tax Reform
Proposes tax cuts of $483B over 5 years.
Lower tax rates to 10%-25%-33%; end inheritance tax.
New Prosperity Initiative: 6 million tax-free families.
Reduce share of tax burden on low- and middle-income.

Welfare & Poverty
New Prosperity Initiative: rent vouchers; homeowner credits.
$1B & tax credits for Individual Development Accounts.
$1.7B over 5 years for home rehabs in poor neighborhoods.
Use financial incentives for social needs via private sector.

That was taken from a website, not my own words.

quote:

Yes am basing my sucking info on global scale, but hey why would almost the entire globe say that Bush sucks? There must be a reason dude, so go figur.

The globe thinks that Bush sucks because all they ever hear about is the war in Iraq. Remember, before the war in Iraq the world for a large part supported Afghanistan and had sympathy after 9/11. I can guarantee the majority of the world knows nothing of our policies (as I wouldn't expect them to) so they are really in no place to say Bush sucks unless they base their opinion solely on a single event. Another reason may be the trade disputes we've had with Europe and Japan over steel, chicken and other goods. This is a two way street however.

quote:

Indeed, they all promise great things but once they have the seat, they do what they like, Bush will do the same also.


Indeed they do, didn't say Bush wouldn't do the same, ever leader promises a lot to get elected, I just didn't want my girlfriend to be preoccupied and base her decision solely on promises that will never be kept.

quote:

ah i see bombing nations, supporting occupation of 6 million people, threating other nations if you don't follow the will of America, killing thousands of people for NO reason etc etc. But hey thats nothing i suppose, it's only good for America so you owe nothing
How about a big appology?


If the occupation you mean Israel, well I believe personally the palestinians are at more fault (another topic) so I don't view it as a bad thing. The US doesn't threaten nations, it threatens sponsors of terrorism. Again the US doesn't kill thousands of people for no reason, they kill terrorists for a GOOD reason. In the end when this is all done and over and Iraq is in the history books it will be good for everyone, no apology necessary.


Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.