TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- City of Toronto muses banning smoking on outdoor patios
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »

City of Toronto muses banning smoking on outdoor patios

I knew this day was coming. It's the next step down the slippery slope. Enjoy your smoking law!!

quote:

You may not be able to fight City Hall, but you can at least finds loopholes around it. That seems to be the logic some Toronto bar owners are following, as the colder temperatures of fall lead them to heat up attempts to cater to smokers. Under the city�s non-smoking bylaw, patrons who want to pursue their habits have to go outside. That was fine in the summer. But many merchants fear smoking pub patrons will take their business to warm places once the big chill of winter kicks in. So they�ve begun sealing off part of their open air patios, and heating them with wood stoves or other energy sources, to keep the customers satisfied. How are they getting away with it? One end of the patio is kept open. �We're adhering to the rules,� maintains manager John Holland. �We're keeping this wall open. According to the law, we have to keep one side of the patio open, but this allows us to work with everybody.� It�s no surprise smokers like the idea. �I don't 100 percent agree with the bylaw that was instituted or the way it was instituted,� opines Sylvia Frank. �So this is, you know, the best we could do at the moment to try and sort of alleviate the discomfort that smokers are suffering.� But Board of Health chair John Filion isn�t amused by the creative solution. �If for any reason somebody has found a loophole, then we'll close the loophole,� he vows. �And if people keep doing this sort of thing against the spirit of the bylaw, we may have to disallow the patios entirely.� Filion plans to bring the issue to the next Board meeting, which could leave pub owners � and their would-be customers � out in the cold this winter. October 5, 2004 .

haha, this is too funny. If smokers want to smoke outside on the patio, then fine, do it! Just as long as they arent smoking inside, im happy.

If they wanna battle the cold of winter for their habits, then so be it.

on the other hand, i hate walking out of office buildings or bars/clubs and being hit by a wall of smoke. But, im not going to complain. the smoke is outside where it will diffuse into the atmoshphere and not my lungs.

but they are banning smoking outside if this happens. Its not funny. Tell me, someone who makes their living in the entertainment industry that this is funny. I'm not laughing. The true effects of this law will now be felt with winter fast approaching and now they want to make it even more difficult.

I wont be laughing when i dont have a job

I'm currently enjoying the smoking ban very much, thank you.

well u wont be when there are no clientele to play to

Yeah, I hate walking down the street and breathing in those diesel fumes from the TTC buses going by.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko haha, this is too funny. If smokers want to smoke outside on the patio, then fine, do it! Just as long as they arent smoking inside, im happy. If they wanna battle the cold of winter for their habits, then so be it. on the other hand, i hate walking out of office buildings or bars/clubs and being hit by a wall of smoke. But, im not going to complain. the smoke is outside where it will diffuse into the atmoshphere and not my lungs.

exactly... and the same people that bitch about tobacco smoke are usually the first ones to admit their chronic weed habit..

This article isn't really even worth posting. Someone said that if bars are going around the bylaw on their patios, then the city will step in. So what?

The whole idea of the bylaw is to protect patrons and staff from second hand smoke. If a patio is 75% closed shut, then it's essentially creating an indoor environment where smoking is banned.

It's really not that difficult to see the logic here.

aaaah well u see here is the logic... if you dont like smoke, DONT GO TO THAT SECTION!

Simple...

These weasels are going to try and use this as a way to ban smoking on all outdoor patios... he even said it himself

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 aaaah well u see here is the logic... if you dont like smoke, DONT GO TO THAT SECTION! Simple... These weasels are going to try and use this as a way to ban smoking on all outdoor patios... he even said it himself

this argument has been done over and over again.
your right to smoke does not triumph my right to clean air in a confined, indoor environment. end of story

we are talking about the outdoors now thank you very much

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper I'm currently enjoying the smoking ban very much, thank you.

I second that!!! I absolutely hated getting back home after a night of clubbing reeking of smoke. I find that people still smoke indoors in large venues like the Guv., but its not nearly as prevalent as it used to be in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 we are talking about the outdoors now thank you very much

actually you're not talking about the outdoors. An outdoor patio implies no sort of roofing, and 4 open walls. From the article i get the impression that businesses are looking for a loophole by having only one area (one side) open. From open air in the summer, which is fine to smoke in, to a 75% closed off environment (which they want you to believe is technically still a patio). As a smoker, i'm quite happy with the new bylaw. It stops me from lighting up when i really don't need to, and as much as you want to beat your chest and say your freedome is being taken away, what you really fail to see jayx1 is your responsibility to the people who share the air around you.

Besides, think of the added energy consumption of the proposed wood burning stoves for heating a patio. Definately not needed in my opinion. If you can't go without smoking at a pub, stay at home and smoke all you want with your friends.

quote:

That was fine in the summer. But many merchants fear smoking pub patrons will take their business to warm places once the big chill of winter kicks in

Patrons won't take their business elsewhere. It makes no sense whatsoever. There isn't an alternative here. The bylaw is pretty clear. What patrons will do, is decide -- which makes sense. The desicion will be, can i go out into a public place, enjoy myself, and if i get the craving, go outdoors to smoke.

btw, jayx1 you sound like a broken record with this whole smoking thing...even smokers realize that the bylaw, however inconveniant in the short run eventually helps all of us. Stop looking at the short term economic imapact like loss of revenue to businesses which is overshadowed by the long term health risk to society in general.

well considering you have to go out of your way to find the smoking patio/tent/whatever u want to call it whats the problem here? U can still go clubbing to your hearts content and never know the difference. You see, some of you no smoking nazis cant even comprimise. And the guy specifically said that if they had to ban smoking on all outdoor patios he would.

Sounds pretty draconian to me

^^^
You sure do have a funny definition of going out of your way, jay. As a smoker, if i get the craving to light up, i simply head to the door, tell the bouncer i'm going to step outside to have a smoke, and do so. Nothing really difficult about that. If, it's -40 outside, then i factor that into how badly i want to smoke and again make a desicion. The choice is always yours.

The article you are referring to seems to be more about pubs then clubs anyway. And if pubs are modifying their patio's to resemble closed spaces with just a solitary open wall at one end, then i can see why the smoke nazi's as you call them would have a problem.

Lets face it, the smoking bylaw makes sense, and it's working...so instead of trying to find loopholes, and bitching about it, lets all just grow up and start to make tough desicions.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 well considering you have to go out of your way to find the smoking patio/tent/whatever u want to call it whats the problem here? U can still go clubbing to your hearts content and never know the difference. You see, some of you no smoking nazis cant even comprimise. And the guy specifically said that if they had to ban smoking on all outdoor patios he would. Sounds pretty draconian to me

I love how you pick and choose the quotes you use and ignore the context in which it was used.

Keep on crying.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 we are talking about the outdoors now thank you very much

It can hardly be considered outdoors when there are 3 walls, one entrance, and all of the air is being trapped in that space just like it does inside.

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

^^^ I agree. Outdoors = outdoors...not 3 walls, a ceiling, and one open wall

However, if it's completely separate from the rest of the establishment, fine, then I really don't care...but the bar/club should NOT be allowed to serve in there (ie. staff shouldn't be allowed to serve patrons in the smoking area...if patrons want to bring their drinks in there, that's fine, as the point is to protect other patrons and staff from the smoke).

Jayx1...really...the argument has been argued...and making comparisons to smoking pot is just silly for a variety of reasons that I'm not going to rehash here (unless you really want to go through that again).

using words like "draconian" and "nazis" in this debate is entirely inappropriate...no one is being rounded up and gassed...they're being forced to be considerate of the health of non-smokers...but I know how you like trumpeting up your weak arguements with loaded words just to make them seem stronger

I fully support bars who wish to be allowed to maintain separately ventilated smoking areas, and to be allowed to permit smoking outdoors or on a patio...but looknig for "loopholes" with this bylaw? I have no sympathy for someone weaseling out of enforcing a clearly benficial bylaw.

The entertainment industry is not going to collapse under this bylaw...

Meh I don't know if i agree with it but bars will adjust in toronto like they have in every other city in north america that has done it. The patio thing is dumb though, give it up already. Smiling might be the next thing to be banned indoors. I predict.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT using words like "draconian" and "nazis" in this debate is entirely inappropriate...no one is being rounded up and gassed...they're being forced to be considerate of the health of non-smokers...but I know how you like trumpeting up your weak arguements with loaded words just to make them seem stronger

LOL -- I agree completely. To hear jay whinning like a little girl about everything just makes me chuckle. Here you have a young, white male who's bitching about all the percieved injustices heaped upon him by this cruel, unjust world. Here's my advice, jay - take a trip outside the little bubble called Toronto and gain some real perspective. Maybe then you'll get a real understanding of what it means to lose your freedome, and what it means to be oppressed by a government. Till then, i suspect most of us on this forum will take your ramblings with a grain of salt.

PS. Or you can just ignore everything i said, and become a politican. When i think about it, it'd be far better then making sandwiches and reading scary newspaper articles on how shackled modern day society is becoming.

From what i gather you have all the nessasary attributes. A penchant for repeating yourself, a love for attention when you stand on the soap box and stir up societal issues, and finally the ability to speak volumes on subjects without any real resolution. If that ain't the makings of a politican then i don't know what is.

Even being the advid non-smoker that I am, this gets the from me...

[EDIT]
Ah hell....a big red X works too

quote:

Originally posted by Kytracid It stops me from lighting up when i really don't need to, and as much as you want to beat your chest and say your freedome is being taken away, what you really fail to see jayx1 is your responsibility to the people who share the air around you.

no, it doesn't. I find myself being outside of the clubs on the patios far more often anyway now. It shouldn't be our responsibility for others around us when we're in open air, even with a wooded roof and an electrical heater above us. If people don't want to inhale smoke, stay inside...God knows you have a whole club in there to breathe our great, clean, tasty Ontario air, while we're crammed outside.

It all boils down to an eventual attempt to take away all smoker's rights, even IN open air. Within ten years, the only place you'll be able to smoke will be in your car or in your house.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 no, it doesn't. I find myself being outside of the clubs on the patios far more often anyway now.

You my friend are in serious need of a patch. LOL. To hear fellow smokers draw doomsday predictions of what it'll be like in 10 years when they won't be able to smoke anywhere except their cars or houses just makes me laugh. As someone who's been smoking for 5 years now, do you honestly think this is a good or bad thing ? I'm trying to quit smoking, so any help i can get is a good thing. If there are fewer places where i can smoke, then I can only see this as a good thing.

The type of resistence i find smokers giving to this law just makes me wonder about the power of nicotine and how it effects the brain. Forget about chronning out or getting sketchy on pills...put a smoker in a non smoking room and bare witness to the birth of the terrible cancer stick monster.




Give it up boys, it's a losing battle, and even as i go out to buy another pack at $7.75 -- i keep hoping that we don't ever win !

^^^ I don't need the patch at all. I smoke more when I'm at a bar or club because it's part of the enjoyment factor. I only go through 3 packs a week, if that.

I'm used to the outside smoking thing and I agree with it. The air inside a club is much nicer now (save the smoke machines), but if people don't like the smoke on the heated patios, don't go out there.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT using words like "draconian" and "nazis" in this debate is entirely inappropriate...no one is being rounded up and gassed...they're being forced to be considerate of the health of non-smokers...but I know how you like trumpeting up your weak arguements with loaded words just to make them seem stronger

i knew somebody would cry about using the word nazi... lol... Sorry if im not politically correct

Bottom line. If you dont have to go to the patio (a place u wouldnt go to anyways since its winter) then why does it affect a non smoker? why do non smokers care? Whether a tent is there or not WHO CARES? Let them smoke.... smokers can pay some of the cover at the door so that your ass isnt whining when either the cover goes up or the club closes. have some respect for smokers rights. By comprimising with the tent idea, smokers get their smoke and non smokers never even have to breathe a whiff. But yet that STILL isnt good enough? Give me a break. And the context is clear. They are prepared to ban all smokingon patios tents or not if thats what it takes to stop this. And yes, draconian is the word to use here. Next stop on the anti-smoking train... banning smoking in ALL outdoor spaces

(i predicted the patio one for about 2 years now)

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.