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Comparing EDM to Rock Music!!!
ok, just after thinking things over, and after all the annoying stereotyping the mainstream crowd does on us...i want to put them in their own place to realize that our music takes the same amount of talent to create (in my opinion more so) as theirs.
here is how i compare a few EDM genres to rock genres:
first off lets look at trance...
trance is based on catchy melodies, or deep melodic bliss. the technical aspect has a melodic line which repeats and broadens as it progresses. to me, in the rock world the best comparative music i can think of is Alternative. think about it, why else would songs like coldplay - clocks be remixed by basically every big trance dj around. alternative puts you into the same mind set as trance, it trys to portray an original melody that takes you to the next level, and the structure is almost identical (not in the arrangement, but in the themed groups)
how bout house...
house has a short catchy riff that is supposed to catch you in the "groove" and stick with it. whether it be deep house or funky house, it has the same type of edge where a groove is constintly played and expanded on as the song progresses (or has its own interpretations by the dj, which is a lot of fun and the most fun music to mix from my experiences)
to this i'd compare punk music. I have punk friends and they just kill me when they call my music repetitive shit....are they fucking kidding me??? do they not realize what they're listening to is the same 3 chords repeated over and over again...or is it the obnoxious, annoying talentless singer who throws them off from that. (i consider alternative singers on the most part to have lots of talent, but punk singers don't have any depth). so essentially they can be getting into the 3 chord 'groove' so to say...thats why i'd link these musics together.
techno music...
techno is usually the hard music which is stereotyped the most, it is mostly just drums and fxs...and sometimes a melodic hook that you can catch in someplaces...but its pretty simple stucture, and its the more underground for of EDM so to say where not everyone would know all the song names like in other forms.
to this i'd have to go with hard rock/metal...they sound nothing alike, obviously, but within the context, they would be comparable to how they are looked at within their genres. Metal is the more hard underground music commonly with a screaming singer (i find very annoying, just sing like normal...geez) and it has a simpler melodic hook and can be seen as just noise (hence why i compare it to techno).
agree, disagree???? remember i'm not saying they sound alike, (with maybe some traits found between trance and alternative) i'm just saying that they're comparable with each other if you had to compare the two scenes. plz feel free to add more comparisons betweens genres!!!
thanks for the good read
Haha, I went from alternative to trance, and I agree that they are pretty similar emotionally.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by icyhandofcrap Haha, I went from alternative to trance, and I agree that they are pretty similar emotionally. |
I agree.
i agree as well, great comparisons. and yes it does piss me off when the only flaw my friends find in the music i listen to is its "repetitiveness." yes i admit, it can be very repetitive at times, but i dont care. thats why i listen to livesets and cds where the song changes every 5-6 minutes and two tracks are being mixed for a long ass time.
oh boy, i could rant about this shit for days, but i'll try not to get started.
great read there.
i agree with you.
EDM is like rock music in many ways.
number one point is that there will always be artists whoring the public scene representing their genre in the wrong way, therefore creating the wrong image for that particular genre.
like who thinks New Found Glory and Good Charlotte are considered rock bands? imo, not me. sorry.
i am ok with mainstream and everything, only if it is represented in the right way.
i agree with the alternitave. trance is much more complexe. As for techno being like metal/hardcore. No way in hell. appart for but being underground, they aren't alike at all. Techno may be more repetitive than trance. but this is what allows the DJ to be that much more technical live and to have 3 vinyls on all night long and to improvise alot more then any trance DJ ever could. As for metal/hardcore. I wouldn't say its hardard and simpler then alternative. In fact i would say its 10 times more complexe. These are bands that devote themselves to the music and perfecting it. Because of this alot of them do not become popular because the music is to hard and complexe for the mainstream crowd. Example. Hopesfall, Thursday, In peices. All example of hardcore bands that are brilliant. These bands wont play one riff and reappet it like in punk. they have 4 - 5 rifts per song.
I think when your friend say the music is repetive they are looking and the fact that the base drum follow a 4-4 pattern. While most alternative music still does this. Hardcore does not. Its probably some of the most complexe percussion out there. download some of those bands i mention on you will understand. What your friends are failing to see, and mention this to them next time, is to stop listening to that base drum, and to listen to everything else that goes on in Trance. That's where the best parts happen. the breakdowns, the buildups the melodies. the subtle progressions. If they can't see that then they just don't have a ear for music
my two cents
well if music wasn't repetitive then it wouldn't be music. it would just be random noise or some thing like that
Stop being such an ignorant fuck. Hard rock and metal are infinitely more complex than any form of dance music. Comparing metal to techno is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Case in point:
A typical hard rock song: Guns 'N Roses- Welcome to the Jungle. It opens with a couple of simple guitar chords, before moving into a repeating riff as the track builds up to the drums. Few more chords, then it bursts into a complex riff. After that the guitars follow the tune of the vocals, changing twice inside a minute. After the chorus it goes into a short solo. Repeats chorus then goes into a quiet bridge with new chords, before going into a full solo. Then it all breaks down to some plucked guitar strings and bass riff, before going back into the chorus with the main riff, but in a different key. This description doesn't even go into the vocals and their tune, or the drum patterns, just the guitars.
This one track alone has more different elements than any single dance tune I've ever heard in my life. And while dance elements are generally simple hooks and arpeggiation, rock songs have long guitar solos in, that can be incredibly complex, and actually require talent to be played, rather than just programmed into a black box.
Now sit down, and shut up.
My friends all listen to Punk...I'll tell you what..the reason they don't like Trance is because they don't know what a melody is. I gave my friend a few Trance songs and then said to them listen to the melody. They went: "What the hell is a melody?". 
Offcourse you wouldn't like it if you don't even know how to distinguish sounds of a song.
Re: Comparing EDM to Rock Music!!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by djbruuen to this i'd compare punk music. I have punk friends and they just kill me when they call my music repetitive shit....are they fucking kidding me??? do they not realize what they're listening to is the same 3 chords repeated over and over again...or is it the obnoxious, annoying talentless singer who throws them off from that. (i consider alternative singers on the most part to have lots of talent, but punk singers don't have any depth). so essentially they can be getting into the 3 chord 'groove' so to say...thats why i'd link these musics together. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This one track alone has more different elements than any single dance tune I've ever heard in my life. And while dance elements are generally simple hooks and arpeggiation, rock songs have long guitar solos in, that can be incredibly complex, and actually require talent to be played, rather than just programmed into a black box. Now sit down, and shut up. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Mike_B i think you have to take into account that electronic DANCE music is created with the intention of making ppl DANCE. Rock is not. you mosh you jump and down, bob your head. but not Dancing. cause the music wasent dezined for that. EDM is complexe in the layers you have in the music. Most rock bands consist of a drummer, two guitarists, and a Bassist, plus the singer. now the drums of course are very complexe no dought about that, and also theres always exception with extra instruments. But you simple cant say its more complexe when the hole idea behind creating the music are not for the same goals or mind. I like both depending on my mood. EDM owns tho |
Re: Re: Comparing EDM to Rock Music!!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mr. poopyhead wrong wrong wrong.... just cause your friends are being ignant about trance, doesn't mean you have to attack their music with the same ignorance... try listening to anything other than blink, green day, or good charlotte [shudders]... but we can save this for another thread.. cause punk DEFINITELY isn't as simple as your make it out to be. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes I can. That "layers" bullshit is all a deception, you have a few loops that slot togethor and it sounds deep, but it isn't complex. Just because it is designed to make you dance doesn't all of a sudden make it complex music. That's ridiculous. Rock bands may comprise of five or even four people each doing one thing, but that has nothing to do with the complexity of the music. A 5 piece rock group can have a bassline, a rhythm guitar, a lead guitar, and a whole percussion rack (kick drum, snare drum, hi-hats) as well as vocals. Take away the percussion and bassline from it and you have three layers. Take away the same things from dance music and how many more layers do you have? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Stop being such an ignorant fuck. Hard rock and metal are infinitely more complex than any form of dance music. Comparing metal to techno is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. |
Dont compare EDM with rock here.
Its totally different.
Well maybe old school rock n roll cause rock n roll used to have a 4/4 beat(beatles, elvis). Now it has evolved and modern rock nowadays just isnt danceable. Back in the 60s, Rock WAS dance music.
hahaha...i couldn't help laughing at some of the responses i've seen. i didn't fully go into extensive detail, and of course there are exceptions.
1st thing, i will agree with the post where it says if you look past green day, good charlette etcetc. there is more complex stuff. But "complex" is such an illusive word. Seriously, No Mainstream Music Is Complex!!!! I've been a piano player for 15 years. in that time i've played every form of classical music, been part of 5 rock bands (from hard rock to alternative) and even done jazz...i've composed emotional film scores (which credible ppl have commented they are worthy of being in a movie) and of course EDM, where i've created ambient, house, trance, and my own crossbreading of genres.
so i think i could consider myself to have some experience.
and like i said b4...no music is complex!!! anything the musician plays is in context with the key they're playing in. Even smooth jazz for example. i have great respect for the piano players that make this music. to the listening ear it sounds like WHOLEY SHIT that guys is fuckin crazy, how does he do that. but seriously, with practice and knowing the key signature and chord switches etc. i could go to the piano and make my own interpretation which would sound just as good (not anyone could, but remember i have 15yrs of piano experience, so i'm not undermining music, it still takes talent to make it to this type of level)
my point with that is trying to say one music is more complex then the other. my biggest and always will be biggest pet peeve. because as a musician i know it isn't, its just 'perceived' that way. i used to play a classical piece from rachmaninoff - prelude in c# minor. i dont' know if anyone is familiar with it, very popular piano piece, and fuck does it sound complicated...but thats only because its played super fast, because then chord structure is still just simple chords.
As mike_b said, EDM and Rock have different intents...dance makes you 'dance,' rock makes you 'rock,' (sorry that sounded kinda lamn...but jump up and down and mosh etc.) so the musicians goals are different.
system-j...i suggest you read what i stated above of the complexity of music. Songs can create the Illusion of being complex...but adding in a harmonizing string pattern and a guitar solo does not classify complexity. btw. gnr - welcome to the jungle wasn't really the style i was going for in that comparison...i meant more modern stuff such as ...um slipknot, deftones (with exceptions where sometimes they lean into a more mainstream influence), slayer...or anything along those lines really...just hard power chords that sound dark and dingy...i would put welcome to the jungle in the alternative category if anything.
anyways, b4 i finish my damn thesis on this topic because i just keep going on and on 
these comparisons are not set in stone wholey shit now that you mention it punk and house sound exactly the same!!! of course not, its just meant to look at comparative traits...and i'll admit i may have some biasis, becuase i don't particularily like heavy metal and punk (although i come from these backgrounds, so b4 you use that to bash on me, i have experienced these music forms in my earlier days through my rock band era.)
also i appreciate the controversy on this subject. because its not like i'm right and thats it, ppl can definately have their own views on this, and its good to see ppl agreeing and disagreeing with my comments...and now after this post, i welcome any other debate.
like in my first post...pls state any additional music comparisions you can find.
I agree with the thread starter.
And I dont care about layers...I like the melody and feelings envolved, so edm > rock, imo.
I like rock with some sense, not that noise guitars that goes to nowhere...
Example:
Yes - Heart of sunrise
Rush - YYZ
This two songs express what I like in rock, the same I like in trance, or any song, they remember some uplifting stuff with breakdown and builds... have a listen.
neovalkyr told:
"well if music wasn't repetitive then it wouldn't be music. it would just be random noise or some thing like that "
agreed too.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by djbruuen hahaha...i couldn't help laughing at some of the responses i've seen. i didn't fully go into extensive detail, and of course there are exceptions. 1st thing, i will agree with the post where it says if you look past green day, good charlette etcetc. there is more complex stuff. But "complex" is such an illusive word. Seriously, No Mainstream Music Is Complex!!!! I've been a piano player for 15 years. in that time i've played every form of classical music, been part of 5 rock bands (from hard rock to alternative) and even done jazz...i've composed emotional film scores (which credible ppl have commented they are worthy of being in a movie) and of course EDM, where i've created ambient, house, trance, and my own crossbreading of genres. so i think i could consider myself to have some experience. and like i said b4...no music is complex!!! anything the musician plays is in context with the key they're playing in. Even smooth jazz for example. i have great respect for the piano players that make this music. to the listening ear it sounds like WHOLEY SHIT that guys is fuckin crazy, how does he do that. but seriously, with practice and knowing the key signature and chord switches etc. i could go to the piano and make my own interpretation which would sound just as good (not anyone could, but remember i have 15yrs of piano experience, so i'm not undermining music, it still takes talent to make it to this type of level) my point with that is trying to say one music is more complex then the other. my biggest and always will be biggest pet peeve. because as a musician i know it isn't, its just 'perceived' that way. i used to play a classical piece from rachmaninoff - prelude in c# minor. i dont' know if anyone is familiar with it, very popular piano piece, and fuck does it sound complicated...but thats only because its played super fast, because then chord structure is still just simple chords. As mike_b said, EDM and Rock have different intents...dance makes you 'dance,' rock makes you 'rock,' (sorry that sounded kinda lamn...but jump up and down and mosh etc.) so the musicians goals are different. system-j...i suggest you read what i stated above of the complexity of music. Songs can create the Illusion of being complex...but adding in a harmonizing string pattern and a guitar solo does not classify complexity. btw. gnr - welcome to the jungle wasn't really the style i was going for in that comparison...i meant more modern stuff such as ...um slipknot, deftones (with exceptions where sometimes they lean into a more mainstream influence), slayer...or anything along those lines really...just hard power chords that sound dark and dingy...i would put welcome to the jungle in the alternative category if anything. anyways, b4 i finish my damn thesis on this topic because i just keep going on and on these comparisons are not set in stone wholey shit now that you mention it punk and house sound exactly the same!!! of course not, its just meant to look at comparative traits...and i'll admit i may have some biasis, becuase i don't particularily like heavy metal and punk (although i come from these backgrounds, so b4 you use that to bash on me, i have experienced these music forms in my earlier days through my rock band era.) also i appreciate the controversy on this subject. because its not like i'm right and thats it, ppl can definately have their own views on this, and its good to see ppl agreeing and disagreeing with my comments...and now after this post, i welcome any other debate. like in my first post...pls state any additional music comparisions you can find. |
neovalkyr told:
"well if music wasn't repetitive then it wouldn't be music. it would just be random noise or some thing like that "
to some extent i agree...because also as a musician, i consider sound in general to be music...when i hear an ambulance zooming past me, it can create a song in my imagination. But i can apprecatie that as a point in context to what we're talking about.
even classical music is "repetitive so to say" its complexities are what illude the listener from seeing these, unless of course you're analyzing the piece of music and you can see the form. Classical composers had a hell of a lot of talent, and even though they do follow certain guidelines, myself and many other professional musicians would never be able to be at their level. but a composer like mozart was able to make as much music as he did, because to him, making music was easy and ideas always flowed naturally.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ Cinos Obviously, you are the ignorant fuck here. Delve futher into EDM than epic trance and you'll find it's second only to possibly classical music. |
^^^holy shit that some quality flaming right there.
I think EDM takes just as much talent to make as any other musical form, its just that they require diferent skills. Some people don't have as much respect for a person's prowess and programming beats as they do for someone thrashing strings or skin of an instrument.
I am both a Electrical Engineering student and Cello player, I find myself appreciating both skills equaly, although I listen to pretty almost only EDM these days.
who cares, when you're f*cked?
[joke]
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