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GERMAN GAY marriage law backed

German gay marriage law backed
July 17, 2002 Posted: 3:46 PM EDT (1946 GMT)




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BERLIN, Germany -- A challenge to Germany's gay marriage law has been thrown out by the country's highest court.

The judges rejected a complaint that gay marriages violate constitutional provisions protecting marriage and the family.

Judges at the Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe voted 5-3 to back the law, which was challenged by Bavaria and two other states.

"I'm enormously relieved," said Volker Beck, a lawmaker from the Greens party, which led the drive for the legislation.

"This is a gigantic day for gays and lesbians in Germany."

The legislation, which came into effect in August 2001 and was approved by parliament in November 2001, entitles homosexual couples to the same inheritance and insurance privileges as heterosexual couples.

They can also exchange vows at government offices and choose a common surname.

But they do not have the right to tax privileges afforded to heterosexual couples, nor do they have the right to adopt children.

An estimated 4,400 couples have tied the knot under the legislation, about 1 percent of the number of heterosexual marriages sealed annually.

When the challenge was first raised last year, the conservative Christian Social Union, which rules Bavaria, said the legislation marked a "black day for families."

Bavaria is governed by Edmund Stoiber, the conservative challenger to Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder in the September parliamentary elections.

Stoiber said he regretted the decision, but said he would not seek to overturn it if the conservatives win the upcoming election.

Denmark was the first country to grant rights to gay couples in 1989.

Since then France, Sweden, Iceland, Norway and The Netherlands are among countries to have legalised same-sex marriages.



Well i guess the germans gay people has more freedom then the Americans

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2004/10/29/germany_expands_same_sex_couples_rights?mode=PF

Germany expands same-sex couples' rights
By Tony Czuczka, Associated Press Writer | October 29, 2004

BERLIN --German lawmakers expanded the rights of same-sex couples Friday, allowing registered domestic partners to adopt each other's children and making rules on splitting up and alimony similar to those for heterosexual marriages.

Parliament's lower house passed the changes drafted by Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's center-left government over the objections of opposition conservatives.

"This is a good day for gays and lesbians," Green Party lawmaker Volker Beck told his colleagues. "We are making another step on the long road to equal rights."

The new law stops short of giving homosexuals, who are legally recognized as couples under Germany's domestic partnership law, full rights to adopt children. But if one partner has children or brings them into the partnership, the other partner can now legally adopt them if neither parent objects.

Before registering their partnership, gay couples will be able to get engaged as heterosexuals do, a step granting certain legal rights in Germany, such as the right not to testify against one's partner in court.

Laws on separation, divorce, alimony and division of assets also are being extended to gay couples.

Although Germany does not permit gay marriage, about 5,000 gay couples have registered domestic partnerships under a law supported by Schroeder's government that took effect Aug. 1, 2001.

Many in Germany's main opposition Christian Democratic bloc remain bitterly opposed to granting gay couples the same rights as married heterosexuals.

The opposition's main reason for voting against the changes was a fear that they opened the door to giving gay couples full adoption rights, Christian Democratic lawmaker Daniela Raab said Friday.

The new adoption law "is an ideological aberration and shows a completely wrong understanding of values," said Christean Wagner, the justice minister of conservative-ruled Hesse state.

He argued it goes against the spirit of Germany's 1949 constitution, whose aim he said was to promote marriage and children.

Beck, a prominent gay activist, argued that greater rights for homosexuals were in line with constitutional equal rights guarantees.

"Western civilization has not collapsed," he said. "It's simply that gays and lesbians now have more rights in this society."

Re: GERMAN GAY marriage law backed

quote:

Originally posted by hardstyle They can also exchange vows at government offices and choose a common surname. But they do not have the right to tax privileges afforded to heterosexual couples, nor do they have the right to adopt children.

This is the main reason why gays want to have marriage rights. Its not the act of marriage they care for ( which is a religous cermony) but its the civil rights that a couple has ( tax benifits, pension rights, etc) gay couples want.

hmm

BERLIN --German lawmakers expanded the rights of same-sex couples Friday, allowing registered domestic partners to adopt each other's children and making rules on splitting up and alimony similar to those for heterosexual marriages."

There

as you said in your article:

But they do not have the right to tax privileges afforded to heterosexual couples, nor do they have the right to adopt children.

ok

It was a 2002 article about tax priviliges and adoption , but in 2004 they changed it , so now they have the right to adopt the other partners children . They changed that in october in 2004

hmm

German gay marriage law backed
July 17, 2002 Posted: 3:46 PM EDT (1946 GMT)

But they do not have the right to tax privileges afforded to heterosexual couples, nor do they have the right to adopt children.

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Germany expands same-sex couples' rights
By Tony Czuczka, Associated Press Writer | October 29, 2004

German lawmakers expanded the rights of same-sex couples Friday, allowing registered domestic partners to adopt each other's children and making rules on splitting up and alimony similar to those for heterosexual marriages.

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I just tried to show that how much the law changed in 2 years in Germany

Good news for all the germans (esp the gay ones ) indeed

Good stuff. I haven't been able to follow German politics too closely, but this is a good sign.

How has Schroeder been doing overall? I remember he wanted to cut some welfare programs to reduce state costs and had a close election (sorry, I know this was a while ago). Thanks for any info.

Seeing as how 11 of 11 states with the issue on the ballot all voted to amend their constitutions to prohibit gay marriage, I'm glad they all have a place like Germany that they can emigrate to now. We'd certainly be happy to see them go and enjoy their lifestyle which is acceptable in another society. Cold day in hell when that will happen around here though, bud.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Seeing as how 11 of 11 states with the issue on the ballot all voted to amend their constitutions to prohibit gay marriage, I'm glad they all have a place like Germany that they can emigrate to now. We'd certainly be happy to see them go and enjoy their lifestyle which is acceptable in another society. Cold day in hell when that will happen around here though, bud. [[[smoke]]]

wow, that sounds exactly like what used to be said a few decades ago about black people too. Very glad our country supports bigotry.

Re: Re: GERMAN GAY marriage law backed

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Piazza This is the main reason why gays want to have marriage rights. Its not the act of marriage they care for ( which is a religous cermony) but its the civil rights that a couple has ( tax benifits, pension rights, etc) gay couples want.

Let them have it, as they have it in germany, but dont call it marraige. which is religious and not secular. christianity in no way approves of the homosexual lifestyle, especially with the degradation of the christian marraige symbolism.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 wow, that sounds exactly like what used to be said a few decades ago about black people too. Very glad our country supports bigotry.

i dont see the connection between Smokeape's comment about gay marriages being outlawed and your comment about black people, a "few decades ago"...

unless you're saying black people are gay, in which case i still dont get your point.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 wow, that sounds exactly like what used to be said a few decades ago about black people too. Very glad our country supports bigotry.

this isnt an issue of race. its an issue of religion. christianity vs. secular humanism. allowing gays to marry the same way as heterosexuals would desecrate the entire chrisitian meaning of marraige. that is where marraige came from, and thats where it should stay. if u want to be joined with the same sex ceremonially, by all means get all the rights and tax breaks u want from the gov't, but the philosophy of marriage originally established as a sacred bond between a man and woman to their union shouldnt be dragged through the mud. that is why there is such a huge opposition to gay marraige.

"A man shall leave his parents, and be united with his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Genesis 2:24

quote:

Originally posted by JM i dont see the connection between Smokeape's comment about gay marriages being outlawed and your comment about black people, a "few decades ago"... unless you're saying black people are gay, in which case i still dont get your point. >JM<

Remember when the south used to be Democrats and left to become Republicans because of civil rights? They wanted notihg to do with black people in the same manner.

quote:

Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: this isnt an issue of race. its an issue of religion. christianity vs. secular humanism. allowing gays to marry the same way as heterosexuals would desecrate the entire chrisitian meaning of marraige. that is where marraige came from, and thats where it should stay. if u want to be joined with the same sex ceremonially, by all means get all the rights and tax breaks u want from the gov't, but the philosophy of marriage originally established as a sacred bond between a man and woman to their union. "A man shall leave his parents, and be united with his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Genesis 2:24

No, that's fine. No one is saying a church has to recognize anything, but it was brought up earlier that Ohio banned even civil unions, which is too far. It has nothing to do with religion, it is about tolerating people who are different and respecting their views. The statement made before was very similar to what used to be the norm under segregation, implying that people who think or are seen differently would be welcome somewhere else, but not in this country.

Yay good news

Why doesn't the government just allow heterosexuals and homosexuals to be civilly recognized as married, so they can get their benefits, and leave the individual churches to decide whether they should perform homosexual marraiges?

I've known 4 Germans. Three of them were gay.

Thats just a fact not an insinuation.

quote:

Originally posted by JM i dont see the connection between Smokeape's comment about gay marriages being outlawed and your comment about black people, a "few decades ago"... unless you're saying black people are gay, in which case i still dont get your point. >JM<

Got a homey here. Yeah, what's up with the comment about blacks? I didn't say we voted on a constitutional amendment against blacks and that they should go back to Africa. It was just a timely post about Germany voting for the homos when America decisively voted against them. Makes sense they should go to Germany because it's pretty clear we don't want them here, at least thinking they can marry and lead a married life. Won't happen when constitutional amendments are written to prevent it and the local society will not permit it. On the other hand, Germany has basically declared they're a homo tolerant zone. Do the math.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by JM i dont see the connection between Smokeape's comment about gay marriages being outlawed and your comment about black people, a "few decades ago"... unless you're saying black people are gay, in which case i still dont get your point. >JM<

Stay......the....fuck....out.....of......this......topic.....

you narrowminded hick!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by kamil Stay......the....fuck....out.....of......this......topic..... you narrowminded hick!!!!!!!!

What is your problem now? Seems you've declared yourself to be a complete asshole. Don't dis hicks, rednecks, or anyone from the southern United States. Hosers like yourself have no clue about what normal society is down here. Go hunt a moose or whatever you do up there and leave American affairs to Americans.

Can do without your little whips BTW as well.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Hosers like yourself have no clue about what normal society is down here. Go hunt a moose or whatever you do up there and leave American affairs to Americans. Can do without your little whips BTW as well. [[[smoke]]]

what exactly do hicks like you in wyoming, tennessee and alabama do anyway that make them more productive then canadians? watch NASCAR? hunt wild turkies?

quote:

Originally posted by TuanAnh213 what exactly do hicks like you in wyoming, tennessee and alabama do anyway that make them more productive then canadians? watch NASCAR? hunt wild turkies?

apparently discriminating gays and non christians is morally right for a hick.

Arrogance was the largest piece of the "BACKLASH" vote against the dems. Contrary to popular belief, Americans hate arrogance and are keen on detecting it.

The Media and Hollywood continue to ignore this and it continues to bite them on the ass.

So:

Dan Rather
Michael Moore
Bruce Springsteen
Jon Stewart
Dix for Chics
Barbra Streisand
Al Franken
Alec Baldwin
Sean Penn
P Diddy
Walter Konkrite
Terry McCauliffe
Hillary and Bill
NY Times, and most print media
MTV
France
Canada
and all the rest of you arrogant fags who have no clue..keep talking it only mobilizes more GOP VOTERS for 08

I thank you all for your continual arrogance and under estimation of the American people. You're the only ones who don't recognize how transparent your agenda is. I did not find John Kerry to be arrogant which makes it that much funnier.

America, FUCK YEAH!!

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec Arrogance was the largest piece of the "BACKLASH" vote against the dems. Contrary to popular belief, Americans hate arrogance and are keen on detecting it. The Media and Hollywood continue to ignore this and it continues to bite them on the ass. So: Dan Rather Michael Moore Bruce Springsteen Jon Stewart Dix for Chics Barbra Streisand Al Franken Alec Baldwin Sean Penn P Diddy Walter Konkrite Terry McCauliffe Hillary and Bill NY Times, and most print media MTV France Canada etc...etc... I thank you all for your continual arrogance and under estimation of the American people. You're the only ones who don't recognize how transparent your agenda is. I did not find John Kerry to be arrogant which makes it that much funnier. America, FUCK YEAH!!

stop generalizing all american people as conservatives, you're embarrassing us...why do you conservatives keep referring to the "true american people that voted in bush"...what about the other 56 million voters who did not vote for bush...are they american?

quote:

Originally posted by TuanAnh213 what about the other 56 million voters who did not vote for bush...are they american?

and the other 200 million people (lets just say that number for the hell of it) who COULD have voted.

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