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Kerry won??

what do you gather from this info...


>>>LINK<<<

wouldn't surprise me one bit.

they covered it a bit better this time.

I'm sorry to say that his main argument (that more women voted for Kerry and that more men voted for Kerry) falls for Simpsons paradox:

quote:

The treatment is benefical to men and women, yet harmful to men, and harmful to women. This is Simpson's paradox: Any statistical relationship between two variables may be reversed by including additional factors in the analysis.

See
here for more.

Re: Kerry won??

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess what do you gather from this info... >>>LINK<<< wouldn't surprise me one bit. they covered it a bit better this time.

Wow stop being a sore loser....go hide under a rock until 2008. GOODNIGHT

we'll never really know cuzz Kerry, like Gore and the rest of the Democrats, are such pussies and wont put up a fight.

Re: Kerry won??

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess what do you gather from this info... >>>LINK<<< wouldn't surprise me one bit. they covered it a bit better this time.

I think Palast's arguments this time around will tend to ring a little more hollow than last time. I forget the exact numbers, but I saw a poll Tuesday morning that clearly demonstrated close to something like 46% of voters believed Bush was not the rightful winner in 2000. When Gore had the popular vote by over 500,000, Palast's arguments fueled the fire even more, and perhaps rightfully so.

But despite some of the possible validity of his argument for the Ohio and NM vote, first of all I tend to think he's reaching a bit on the numbers. Sure there's a bias or discrimination or whatever you wish to call it for who receives provisional ballots more often than others, and that may have some effect on the numbers as a whole. Still, I find it hard to believe it has a TOTAL effect on those respective state voting counts.

And finally, as I've alluded to before, his argument put some fuel on the fire when Gore clearly won the popular vote. Even IF Palast was 100% correct in his assessment (which I have my doubts), it's difficult to get past a 3.5 million popular vote for Bush.

This isn't the avenue for the Democrats to take. Let the conspirators and tin foil hatters take their normal routes, but this will not help keep our base solidified that we've worked so hard for over the past 4 years.

I think Simpsons Paradox only applies when you're measuring the statistical effect of something, such as percentages, but not the raw numbers. If more women vote for Kerry and more men vote for Kerry, , the number will be bigger than the total of bush votes.

As for Kerry being a pussy, I disagree. I actually respect the fact that he doesnt want to drag America through another forever-long series of court battles and recounts. We don't need a civil war.

Every exit poll was wrong apparently.. not so true. There was something definetly wrong with this election.. not conspiracy, but it is true. ON heavily democratic city's, there was such a low number of voting machines. Eitherway, not worth talking about, hence it wont change anything.. but the fact is, if all votes WERE counted, Kerry would have won Ohio..

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Originally posted by LiquidX but the fact is, if all votes WERE counted, Kerry would have won Ohio..

Oh, is that a fact?

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Originally posted by State of Matter As for Kerry being a pussy, I disagree. I actually respect the fact that he doesnt want to drag America through another forever-long series of court battles and recounts. We don't need a civil war.

And let half the country who believed in him suffer another 4 years? ok, it won't really be that bad. but him giving up when he still had a chance, what does that tell us about his fighting spirit? maybe he didn't really want the job that badly, in which case, the better man probably won.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilDust we'll never really know cuzz Kerry, like Gore and the rest of the Democrats, are such pussies and wont put up a fight.

Kerry put up one hell of a fight during the last year. It was his political advisors that realized that the final battle was not worth fighting for since it was already lost. Kerry did all he could have done, and came up just a little short in the end.

>JM<

quote:

Senator Kerry rushed to nomination without a plan to win the election. Yes, nominating Gore and then Kerry may both have been major mistakes. But you know how the old saying goes... "Mistakes Are Oft Times the Stepping Stones to Failure".

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Originally posted by Shakka Oh, is that a fact?

Yes

Even if lets say the person writing this article is correct and votes were not counted. Assuming the same ratio of the 98%+ of the people who's votes were counted Bush would have taken the same ratio from the non counted votes and still won.

And I can't believe the author is basing a part of his discussion on exit polls. Unless you talk to every person it is no more reliable than pre election polls.

quote:

Originally posted by State of Matter As for Kerry being a pussy, I disagree. I actually respect the fact that he doesnt want to drag America through another forever-long series of court battles and recounts.

I respect that too. I think it is the gentleman's choice. Elections should be about VOTES, not litigations.

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We don't need a civil war.

I think that a Civil War wouldn't hurt the US, especially if the outcome were a more sophisticated (as in harder to manipulate) voting law. I think it is rediculous that people have to wait 5 hours to vote. In the end, this is the US, not some 3rd world country.

In the end, the productivity LOST due to crappy voting is probably close to the damage done by viruses. Especially if the same accounting standards are used.

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 In the end, the productivity LOST due to crappy voting is probably close to the damage done by viruses. Especially if the same accounting standards are used.

productivity lost? in what sense? productivity lost at work due to people leaving work to go vote?

i can assume that many people voted before and after work, and not during. i'm also assuming they didn't leave work early either to go vote... also, there was a record turnout, much higher than expected in many places.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 I think that a Civil War wouldn't hurt the US, especially if the outcome were a more sophisticated (as in harder to manipulate) voting law. I think it is rediculous that people have to wait 5 hours to vote. In the end, this is the US, not some 3rd world country.

A civil war in the name of a voting law?

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 I respect that too. I think it is the gentleman's choice. Elections should be about VOTES, not litigations. I think that a Civil War wouldn't hurt the US

uhhh...dude?

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 I respect that too. I think it is the gentleman's choice. Elections should be about VOTES, not litigations. I think that a Civil War wouldn't hurt the US, especially if the outcome were a more sophisticated (as in harder to manipulate) voting law. I think it is rediculous that people have to wait 5 hours to vote. In the end, this is the US, not some 3rd world country. In the end, the productivity LOST due to crappy voting is probably close to the damage done by viruses. Especially if the same accounting standards are used.

I don't think there should be a civil war, but you do have a point about the long lines waiting to vote. There should have been more polling places in cities if lines were that long. Many people were turned away from voting, because the polls closed despite some waiting in lines for hours. If the polls close at 7 and you get there at 7:01 you shouldn't be able to vote, but people in Florida and Ohio were still waiting and never got a chance to vote. That puts a cap on how many people can vote in some urban areas, which is not democratic.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka A civil war in the name of a voting law?

What? You aren't buying ammunition to secede over McCain-Feingold? I've been stocking up for over two years...

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Originally posted by LiquidX if all votes WERE counted,

Like my Pops tells me like it was back in the 60's in Chicago...

...Vote Early and Vote Often...

Yeh this crap doesn't do any good. Its a shame people didn't admit this before everything fell apart but the Democrats are totally to blame for this (I'm one, calm down). We got caught up in all the media and polls that made it look like we were coming out on top while the Republicans sat quietly by carefully planning. Democrats seriously need to regroup look at the bigger picture and reorganize themselves. The best point I've heard many a place since 2nd is we need to find quality canidates worth voting for as a person and not as an after thought.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Yeh this crap doesn't do any good. Its a shame people didn't admit this before everything fell apart but the Democrats are totally to blame for this (I'm one, calm down). We got caught up in all the media and polls that made it look like we were coming out on top while the Republicans sat quietly by carefully planning. Democrats seriously need to regroup look at the bigger picture and reorganize themselves. The best point I've heard many a place since 2nd is we need to find quality canidates worth voting for as a person and not as an after thought.

Said same in another post. Don't throw a Jane Fonda hugger out there and yank the gay rights platform off of your stage. Give us a Southern Democrat as well and you coulda had it.


[[[smoke]]]

Re: Re: Kerry won??

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec Wow stop being a sore loser....go hide under a rock until 2008. GOODNIGHT

hahahahahahahahahahaha.

you are the idiot. like it bothers me one way or the other.

i am canadian.

just go to show you that there is another possibility of there being some cheatin' going on just like the last election.

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Every exit poll was wrong apparently.. not so true. There was something definetly wrong with this election.. not conspiracy, but it is true. ON heavily democratic city's, there was such a low number of voting machines. Eitherway, not worth talking about, hence it wont change anything.. but the fact is, if all votes WERE counted, Kerry would have won Ohio..

Not from the sources I've been reading; just about about every one of the them were Republican...

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