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Second Sun - Back Down

Any info on this track? It sounds awsome. very hard and gritty!

The spell ownz.

BACK DOWN WERE I BELONG!!!!

greatest song ever

Another quality production from Second Sun. Vandit needs to follow through on a big marketing push for them over the next year. There's a ton of talent with the potential to put new blood into trance.

Its pretty crap really. At first they seemed like an interesting group, but now all the stuff they do is substandard. Their production is quite poor, of levels that youd expect to find in the amateur forum on here sometimes, and their ideas just arent interesting or exciting anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee Its pretty crap really. At first they seemed like an interesting group, but now all the stuff they do is substandard. Their production is quite poor, of levels that youd expect to find in the amateur forum on here sometimes, and their ideas just arent interesting or exciting anymore.

Not interesting or exciting anymore? Compared to what, Nu-NRG?
Show me an example of a current artist with a sound like Second Sun.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Not interesting or exciting anymore? Compared to what, Nu-NRG? Show me an example of a current artist with a sound like Second Sun.

why are you comparing second sun to nu nrg?


well look at second suns tracks...

its either a> simple trance, empire, love simulator... stuff like this is OK, but the production is so bad, they always need a remix.

b> vocal trance, look at the original of crush... a really really poor vocal track. Sure something good came out of it in the end, but you can see the difference. PvD made something a bit interesting out of something that was quite bland (we have all heard the original pre PvD involvement)

c> strange vocal breaks... their 'attempt to be different' side, like rock the west side. Its just horrible horrible horrible... kind of attempting an old style Bt rip off with really shite production and crap vocals, not good.

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee Its pretty crap really. At first they seemed like an interesting group, but now all the stuff they do is substandard. Their production is quite poor, of levels that youd expect to find in the amateur forum on here sometimes, and their ideas just arent interesting or exciting anymore.

must be another Second Sun out there cos the stuff I hear from them is fantastic.

quote:

Originally posted by Dinaire Force 1 must be another Second Sun out there cos the stuff I hear from them is fantastic.

fantastic? really...

its typical though, everything that is 'OK' gets over hyped so that it becomes 'amazing'

tracks like empire & the spell are good

love simulator is OK

the original of crush, rock the west side, 'back down' are just crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee why are you comparing second sun to nu nrg?

1) Because Nu-NRG is often touted as a cutting-edge trance outfit, when I think Second Sun is much more innovative in sound and style.

2) Because the two groups are primary signees to Vandit, accountable to the same standards, which makes comparison less problematic.

quote:

its either a> simple trance, empire, love simulator... stuff like this is OK, but the production is so bad, they always need a remix.

One of Second Sun's best strengths is that they create trance that is both simple and powerful. That's a very potent combination that many try but few achieve. Empire and Love Simulator are perfect examples.

I agree that Second Sun needs to work on production quality itself, but this is insignificant compared to the fact that they create lasting and original musical ideas. The best production quality in the world won't save a weak theme at the core. Just look at Anjunabeats.

I would further argue that some of their production is meant to be unpolished. I find their gritty, basic sound to be a plus among all the flawless supersaws.

quote:

b> vocal trance, look at the original of crush... a really really poor vocal track. Sure something good came out of it in the end, but you can see the difference. PvD made something a bit interesting out of something that was quite bland (we have all heard the original pre PvD involvement)

Actually, I like the original about as much as I like the final album release with Paul van Dyk. Perhaps more. It contains the simple, strong melodic hook and rough production sound that I like from them.

quote:

c> strange vocal breaks... their 'attempt to be different' side, like rock the west side. Its just horrible horrible horrible... kind of attempting an old style Bt rip off with really shite production and crap vocals, not good.

I give them credit for branching into this style, though it's not why I'm a fan of them. There have been better attempts, as you noted.

just to point out that second sun's idea is not to make trance like empire at all. there's a story behind it but i cant be bothered to write it heh.

most of their tracks are 120, 122, and 130 bpms. empir, change and love simulator are the only ones tgat hit a faster tempo.

couple of their new work is really great...... the album will be good! i`d label it as `different`

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt 1) Because Nu-NRG is often touted as a cutting-edge trance outfit, when I think Second Sun is much more innovative in sound and style. 2) Because the two groups are primary signees to Vandit, accountable to the same standards, which makes comparison less problematic. One of Second Sun's best strengths is that they create trance that is both simple and powerful. That's a very potent combination that many try but few achieve. Empire and Love Simulator are perfect examples. I agree that Second Sun needs to work on production quality itself, but this is insignificant compared to the fact that they create lasting and original musical ideas. The best production quality in the world won't save a weak theme at the core. Just look at Anjunabeats. I would further argue that some of their production is meant to be unpolished. I find their gritty, basic sound to be a plus among all the flawless supersaws. Actually, I like the original about as much as I like the final album release with Paul van Dyk. Perhaps more. It contains the simple, strong melodic hook and rough production sound that I like from them. I give them credit for branching into this style, though it's not why I'm a fan of them. There have been better attempts, as you noted.

lets get one thing straight from the start. As artists nu nrg are one of the worst things going right now. Their production is also really shit although in a totally different way... I think Vandit should get rid of nu nrg, they drag the label down. Second Sun also produce stuff that isnt of good enough quality but at least some of their ideas are more interesting and its always these ones that have so far been taken forward and made into something good...


anyway,

I think Empire & Love Simulator are pretty good, for that kind of style, there is nothing wrong with the tracks other than the production quality... Although PvD has remixed both so that sorts that end out.

but, there is no excuse for having a track sound shit today. Any 13 year old with a pc and no life can make something sound techincally pretty good if they put the effort in... there just isnt an excuse really. I think PvD should maybe 'teach' them a few things about that side of the game.

I take your point about anjuna, its a perfect example of something thats totally shit for a different reason... sure a&b, aalto or whatever make better 'sounding' records, but i agree their music is totally boring when you compare it to second sun. Dont get me wrong i never meant to say that SS are the most boring thing in the world, but i judge people by the standards that they set themselves. Second Sun were once a fresh group with a lot more interesting things about them. Although we'll see with the album i suppose, personally im not expecting too much.

If they can keep fresh, and not churn out things like back down & rock the west side, and at the same time sort out the technical side then there is still the potential for them to be a really good thing. At the minute though i think there is a danger of them turning into has beens without ever really having 'been', and i think they deserve more than that.

sample or stfu

http://www.geocities.com/minhaj14/secondsunbackdown.mp3

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt 1) Because Nu-NRG is often touted as a cutting-edge trance outfit, when I think Second Sun is much more innovative in sound and style. 2) Because the two groups are primary signees to Vandit, accountable to the same standards, which makes comparison less problematic.

yes

quote:

One of Second Sun's best strengths is that they create trance that is both simple and powerful. That's a very potent combination that many try but few achieve. Empire and Love Simulator are perfect examples. I agree that Second Sun needs to work on production quality itself, but this is insignificant compared to the fact that they create lasting and original musical ideas. The best production quality in the world won't save a weak theme at the core. Just look at Anjunabeats.

no

quote:

I would further argue that some of their production is meant to be unpolished. I find their gritty, basic sound to be a plus among all the flawless supersaws. Actually, I like the original about as much as I like the final album release with Paul van Dyk. Perhaps more. It contains the simple, strong melodic hook and rough production sound that I like from them.

i agree

quote:

I give them credit for branching into this style, though it's not why I'm a fan of them. There have been better attempts, as you noted.

i disagree

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 i disagree

if you think second sun are the best example of breakbeat youve ever heard then you either havent ever heard any breakbeat tracks ever, or are really stupid

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee ...

Yep, I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I realize that there's definite room for improvement with Second Sun, but with trance in the current state it is, you have to start somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee why are you comparing second sun to nu nrg? well look at second suns tracks... its either a> simple trance, empire, love simulator... stuff like this is OK, but the production is so bad, they always need a remix. b> vocal trance, look at the original of crush... a really really poor vocal track. Sure something good came out of it in the end, but you can see the difference. PvD made something a bit interesting out of something that was quite bland (we have all heard the original pre PvD involvement) c> strange vocal breaks... their 'attempt to be different' side, like rock the west side. Its just horrible horrible horrible... kind of attempting an old style Bt rip off with really shite production and crap vocals, not good.

Go listen to DJ sammy then. At least they are original cheese right?

quote:

Originally posted by Cobalt Yep, I pretty much agree with what you wrote. I realize that there's definite room for improvement with Second Sun, but with trance in the current state it is, you have to start somewhere.

werd.

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee fantastic? really... its typical though, everything that is 'OK' gets over hyped so that it becomes 'amazing' tracks like empire & the spell are good love simulator is OK the original of crush, rock the west side, 'back down' are just crap.

Hey! That's what YOU think!

quote:

Originally posted by ziddy Hey! That's what YOU think!

do you honestly think tracks like rock the west side and the original of crush are well produced??

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee do you honestly think tracks like rock the west side and the original of crush are well produced??

really crush's vocals = love it or hate it

Second Sun's productions are just simply amazing

Come on, name an artist that hasn't produced a below average track
none, every artist failed some point

Now name an artist that overall produces great tracks
Hard to name still, but there are many

and one of them (two of them) is Second Sun....

And also, there is a reason why Second Sun handed paul "rock the west side"

hold on let me fish out the aging interview

Scott: We've heard the full vocal mix. I actually like the breakdown with the breakbeats better than Paul's Vandit Dub. What's next for Second Sun? Any upcoming gigs/performances?
SS: We've just finished a full on breakbeat track called "Rock The West Side", which was originally conceived only for our live shows here in California but after very good audience feedback we decided to work on it some more. We'll send you guys a clip of it. As for live shows, we've told our booking agents to wait. We're working on lots of new material that we want to finish before we get on stage again. We are perfectionists in a way therefore we don't want to get up on stage unless we feel totally satisfied with what we have to play. So, after almost a year of preparation we'll be on tour all over the place, including the big European festivals. We can't wait to get back on stage!



really it's all opinions

judging music will never become a fact

excuse the grammar

you miss the point - they arent 'well produced' - irrespective of whether i like them or not, technically everything they do is really bad, and there is no excuse for it nowadays. Studio equipment is better now than in 94, yet most of second sun stuff sounds like it was made then

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee Its pretty crap really. At first they seemed like an interesting group, but now all the stuff they do is substandard. Their production is quite poor, of levels that youd expect to find in the amateur forum on here sometimes, and their ideas just arent interesting or exciting anymore.

the spell orig & empire orig, are some of my favs ever. I dont think there is anything wrong with the production there. All paul ever did to empire was straiten the "fx/melody" after the break. Crush orig mix definately needed something that paul gave it.


I think love stimulator is better then alot of the stuff out. because paul remixed it, i dunno??? has he??? It kinda reminds me of 2000 trance...


and i think second sun do make the best break-trance out there, unless u can reccomend someone different to listen to...


i dont really remmeber hearing this specific track, i think it was 1 of the ones that was played vandit night, and arturo made up the name...

quote:

Originally posted by Laushinameee do you honestly think tracks like rock the west side and the original of crush are well produced??

I loved the originals. Rock the west side is AWSOme and so was the original of crush. Mind you the pvd mixes were better but the same can be said for many tracks that have gotten the pvd treatment.

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