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Transsexuals feel violated

So they delisted sex change operations and these people say it's a violation of their human rights. Well when i have to pay for an eye exam because i cant see i think i will seriously take the province to court if this case wins. I think sight is a little more important than a penis replacement. Why shit like this even makes it to court is beyond me.

quote:

The former Conservative provincial government delisted sex-change procedures six years ago, but on Friday a human rights tribunal heard several complaints, including the story of a person who sank into a spiralling depression after the government stopped paying for the treatment halfway through their gender transition. A man told the panel that his partner�s mental status reached such a low level last winter that he became worried for her personal safety and shelled out the money for the $7,000 operation. To fund his partner�s procedure, he maxed out his credit cards and drained his retirement savings. Four people have raised complaints with the tribunal that the delisting of the surgery is discriminatory on the basis of sex and disability. The treatments had been available since 1971 and are still covered in four other provinces. One person who had completed the compulsory program at the Clark Institute of Psychiatry before receiving reconstructive surgery of the genitalia was denied coverage for the operation. The person�s partner explained the huge difference between the complainant�s mental state before and after the procedure. He described his partner�s life after surgery as radiant and full of joy. The hearing resumes on Jan. 10, 2005.

eye exams are not the same as sex change operations - I'm surprised you would even try to make that comparison.

Ya know, going to see a shrink is allot cheaper than having a sex change. Im glad that tax payer money is not going towards such a brutal area of medicine.

Hmmm, i know this might be politically incorrect, but why the hell is a sex change operation something anyone should be entitled to as a medical procedure. I mean, if you want to get a sex change done, then fine, find a way to pay for it yourself ! Why should the tax payers money have to go towards a procedure that is basically similar to cosmetic surgery (yeah yeah, i know what the trannies are going to say -- it's more then that)

Next you'll get women with small breasts all over the country standing up and saying they're feeling depressed and want the government to pay for their boob job, and i'm not even going to touch on how many guys are waiting to be lifted out of their depression by getting a few inches tacked onto the end of their stump.

At some point you gotta accept that you're born a certain gender, and whether or not God made a mistake and gave you a pee pee instead of a wee wee, it's not something that the rest of society should have to foot the bill for.

Any of you that are familiar with sex change patients know that it is not comparable to something like breast enhancement. These people suffer from a huge gender disillusionment - imagine feeling like a woman in every sense, but being stuck with male genetalia and always being identified as a man when you don't feel that way at all.

Although, most of you are too close minded to imagine anything outside of your little boxes.

quote:

Originally posted by Kytracid At some point you gotta accept that you're born a certain gender, and whether or not God made a mistake and gave you a pee pee instead of a wee wee, it's not something that the rest of society should have to foot the bill for.

Someone had to say it. Well put.

Why should sex change operation should be a critical something that the public should pay for? I fail to see how this is any different than getting a boob job or cosmetic surgery.

IMO it's a luxury. The public shouldn't pay for other people's luxury.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Any of you that are familiar with sex change patients know that it is not comparable to something like breast enhancement. These people suffer from a huge gender disillusionment - imagine feeling like a woman in every sense, but being stuck with male genetalia and always being identified as a man when you don't feel that way at all.

I totally agree that wanting a sex change is totally a complex and deep issue. But, I also think it's a pretty sticky issue - sex change operations are not critical to survival. I'm not so sure that money that could be going to cancer treatment or research into curing childhood diseases should be put into a procedure to cure an illness that is not (in itself) life threatening. If a transsexual is depressed because of their gender - the depression can be treated. I don't know which option (the operation or depression treatment) would be cheaper. But I imagine that treatment for depression is cheaper.

these things were at some point paid for? that's crazy.

but then again, imagine yourself being a girl stuck in the body of a male. that would be really fucked up and I would like to get that fixed somehow. these people aren't just homosexuals wanting to take the next step. these people really fee trapped in someone elses body.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Although, most of you are too close minded to imagine anything outside of your little boxes.

If I've ever heard a sweeping generalization...

Taxpayers were paying for this???

I'd have to agree, it's not a matter of survival or a prerequisite.

Mental anguish I can't see being a value arguement or we'd have a big problem with obese people lining up for liposuction because they "feel" like they can't function or fit into society.

God doesn't make junk.
Whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that everyone has issues and everyone has to find a way to deal with it in their own way that will make them happy.
Shoving the problem away by blaming society and not taking personal responsibility is not an answer, it's a cope out.
It's outrageous to think that society has to pay for it.

speaking of which, people always say I have chicken-shit brown eyes and I feel mentally torn and not accepted...maybe I should get my eyeballs replaced and feel better about myself...who wants to give me the money?

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Although, most of you are too close minded to imagine anything outside of your little boxes.

bingo!!

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Any of you that are familiar with sex change patients know that it is not comparable to something like breast enhancement. These people suffer from a huge gender disillusionment - imagine feeling like a woman in every sense, but being stuck with male genetalia and always being identified as a man when you don't feel that way at all. Although, most of you are too close minded to imagine anything outside of your little boxes.

well said.

taxpayer money pays for cancer treatment of lifelong smokers, broken legs of skiiers, rehab of drug addicts, etc.

so the "this is a choice" or "this isn't necessary" arguments are groundless. If you disagree, then you must support a position of "You chose to ski, you broke your leg, you pay for your surgery then!"

Sarah is right on...this is a FAR more complex issue than most of you understand. It's a legitimate "condition" (for lack of a better word) that has been well researched and substantiated by the medical community. If you disagree, then you need to do a little more research yourselves.

edit: This is also not a simple "I think I'll change my sex" decision...the requirements of the individual are substantial...months of consulations, therapy, drug/hormone treatment, etc. No one is allowed to simply have it done and the # of cases, and the dollar amounts involved, PALES in comparison to other procedures that you could call just as "elective". The costs associated with treating cancer patients who smoke is astronomically higher than the coverage for sex change operations, I'm sure

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Taxpayers were paying for this??? I'd have to agree, it's not a matter of survival or a prerequisite. Mental anguish I can't see being a value arguement or we'd have a big problem with obese people lining up for liposuction because they "feel" like they can't function or fit into society. God doesn't make junk. Whether you believe in God or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that everyone has issues and everyone has to find a way to deal with it in their own way that will make them happy. Shoving the problem away by blaming society and not taking personal responsibility is not an answer, it's a cope out. It's outrageous to think that society has to pay for it. speaking of which, people always say I have chicken-shit brown eyes and I feel mentally torn and not accepted...maybe I should get my eyeballs replaced and feel better about myself...who wants to give me the money?

You are comparing apples and oranges and I think you are really missing the point. Whether obese or not, brown eyed or not, you're still you, a male/female. With that said, I don't think it's fair that the tax payers should be paying for someone elses genetic misfortunes.

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica If I've ever heard a sweeping generalization...

LOL. Although, i suspect it wasn't so much a generalization, as a snide comment aimed at atleast two of us. Not that i'm suprised, it's the politically correct thing to say

quote:

Originally posted by DC- You are comparing apples and oranges and I think you are really missing the point. Whether obese or not, brown eyed or not, you're still you, a male/female. With that said, I don't think it's fair that the tax payers should be paying for someone elses genetic misfortunes.

No I don't think I'm missing it at all.
The point was in fact, we shouldn't have to pay for that...

It's the arguement you don't agree with.

BTW if those twisted fuks want to cry about psychological effects, why not try to be a fat kid growing up in todays society. Overweight people get nothing for free.

Burns my blood that we live in a society that would even debate the validity of this shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What is relevant is that everyone has issues and everyone has to find a way to deal with it in their own way that will make them happy. Shoving the problem away by blaming society and not taking personal responsibility is not an answer, it's a cope out. It's outrageous to think that society has to pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT taxpayer money pays for cancer treatment of lifelong smokers, broken legs of skiiers, rehab of drug addicts, etc. so the "this is a choice" or "this isn't necessary" arguments are groundless. If you disagree, then you must support a position of "You chose to ski, you broke your leg, you pay for your surgery then!"

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper eye exams are not the same as sex change operations - I'm surprised you would even try to make that comparison.

You are right. Eye exams are a little more fundemental and thus discriminates against a lot more people.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Any of you that are familiar with sex change patients know that it is not comparable to something like breast enhancement. These people suffer from a huge gender disillusionment - imagine feeling like a woman in every sense, but being stuck with male genetalia and always being identified as a man when you don't feel that way at all. Although, most of you are too close minded to imagine anything outside of your little boxes.

I have blurred vision and i could be a detriment to society on the road. Who is going to foot the bill for that? Are you telling me that i should be able to have a sex change at taxpayers expense and yet i must pay $75 for an eye exam? (which was covered by OHIP until Nov 1).

That's absurd.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT If you disagree, then you must support a position of "You chose to ski, you broke your leg, you pay for your surgery then!"

Obsofickinlutely!
That's what medical insurance is all about...

Obese people have stightly more to do with why they are the way they are.

People that suffer from this gender thing did nothing to themselves to be that way.

There are countless artciles in scientific journals saying that these guys that are becoming girls have actual brain chemistry of women. it is even considered by some to be a birth defect. Something messed up in utero.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT It's a legitimate "condition" (for lack of a better word) that has been well researched and substantiated by the medical community. If you disagree, then you need to do a little more research yourselves.

So is vision impairment and chiropractic procedure. Both of which were delisted on Nov 1. So please, tell me why i should have to pay for these essential services now while sex change patients feel that they shouldnt? I'll support tax payer sex changes only when they relist basic procedures that i have to pay for. Otherwise if they win this court case i think optomitrists and chiropractors and their patients would have a legitimiate case.

I think eye exams should be covered too Jay...that's irrelevant to the debate on whether or not sex change operations should be covered or not though. Two seperate issues. If two things "ought" to be covered, the fact that one is not is not grounds to say that the other should not be covered either.

You're also comparing a relatively minor expense with one that costs thousands of dollars.

as for firestarter's quote of "Shoving the problem away by blaming society..."...um...I don't recall any arguments for the funding surgeries being based on "blaming" anyone. Candidates are stating that they feel the surgery should be covered...they're not saying it's society's fault that they were physically born one sex, yet unequivocably identifying as another.

I'm done with this debate...there's a serious lack of understanding and compassion in this thread from people who haven't even made any attempt to understand this issue, but are quick to rise up and condemn or dismiss it as irrelevant and unnecessary. find out the # of surgeries that occur every year and see how it really impacts our taxes. then compare that to cancer treatment, sports injuries, auto "accidents" (re: negligence), etc. and tell me that this is SUCH a gross misappropriation of public health dollars. It's a drop in the water but can RADICALLY improve the lives of those who undergo the procedure. Comparing this to obesity is ludicrous. In the majority of cases of obesity, there are a myriad of alternatives than lipo...diet, exercise, medication, etc. etc. etc. For a transgendered individual, there is not.

this is what the "me me me" society results in...a complete lack of caring about anyone or anything that doesn't directly benefit themselves. very sad indeed. this is hardly a major issue from a $$$ standpoint.

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