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How do you British/Irish TAs feel about the IRA

Just curious to see how you guys feel about the Irish vs. British conflict in Northern Ireland

i think its great, sooner we get those british pricks out of country the better!


how do you mean how do we feel? most of the major trouble is over now anyway.

thats being said they should still get the fuck out of our country

To be honest I havn't seen anything about the IRA on TV for years. Is that stuff still going on nowerdays?

mainly arguing over decommisioning now.

The loyalists seem to be busy with their own in-fighting. Dunno what the IRA are up too, extortion and dug dealing probaly.

I wonder, not attempting to incite a flame-war, but how will the new nation of Iraq be plagued by people who wish the US would 'get the fuck out of their country'? It's obvious that there's people who don't want America there (sooo obvious), so if they don't pull out soon, this will probably carry on for years. How are the two situations similar?

most people dont really care that much anymore, especially down south. A lot of people would like to see a 32 county ireland but thats pretty much unrealistic.

but at least their is a peace agreement from a part of the world that has experienced so much bloodshed in its history. The IRA vs. the British Army was a bloody conflict that lasted so long and I still claim that Gerry Adams was at least man enough to attempt to find peace, even tho he was responsible for most of the attacks from the IRA side.

a couple of my uncles and grandfathers have been killed in various related IRA occurances that they have either instigated or been involved with some how.

itd be cool if they had jets doing the loop-the-loop and stuff.

i'm guessing U2 has some strong feelings about it. they make several statements about "the resistance" in their DVD documentary. sunday bloody sunday, whats that about?

most troubles in cases of bombings etc seem to be over which is good.

Personally I wish we could all get on with the Irish thing, but at the end of the day it should be upto the people of northern and the republic as to whether they wish to be one country or two, I think the rest of the UK should respect that and hopefully in time maybe there will be no problems

Give it 10-15 years and there will be a united Ireland.

There will never be a united Ireland.any rational thinkin man will tell you that.id rather be a part of the UK anyway.

the worst of the trouble is over thank god but now its just gang violence in places.theres no need for the armed groups anymore (IRA/UVF/UDA) so they resort now to selling drugs,prostitution,extortion etc to pass the time.its more about power now.who controlls where.

at the minute theres a deal nearly being made which will move everything forward.revolving around the decommissioning of the guns.once the arsenals are out of the way then talks can properly start.

personally i dont see why the IRA is always to blame in this when in the last 5 years loyalist violence has accounted for 75% of the trouble.you never hear paisley talkin about that do ya? he just doesnt want to share power with Catholics.end of.

the IRA has taken the war as far as it can go but recognises theres nothin for them to gain out of it as they cant win.

IMO the IRA committed some terrible atrocities as i dont agree with the killing of innocents but in 80% of cases they went after military targets,targets that could fire back,unlike the loyalists who just slaughtered innocent catholics.

example.in 1997 billy wright,leader of the UVF (loyalist group) was killed by the INLA (republican group) in prison.he was a bad bastard and needed to be taken out and he was.in retaliation,the UVF killed 6 innocent catholics.the INLA killed a legitimate target.

(as a sidenote.for billy wrights birthday in 1996,his henchmen went out a killed a catholic taxi driver.they ordered a taxi and he drove them to a lane where they wanted to go and they shot him in the back of the head.a man with a wife and kids.now theres bravery for ya)

as long as they both kill each other i dont care but when innocent and non-combatents are dragged in to the picture its a different story.

quote:

Originally posted by Quinders Give it 10-15 years and there will be a united Ireland.

i'd like to see it, buty i'm pretty sure it'll never happen.

you think the loyalists who've settled there for fuck knows how many years will allow this? if it does happen, a lot more terrorist groups will form trying to get their 6 counties back as part of the UK.

personally i think northern Ireland should be made an independant state.

regardless of whether it's part of UK or IRL, you're always going to have somebody who's unhappy.

be nice to have a untited Ireland - we'd be able to use our Euros in the north

but then again, we'd have to pay the same VRT (car reg tax) as we do in the south

pros + cons to both sides!!

*awaits donegalrednecks reply to this thread*

quote:

Originally posted by Disco_Gibson unlike the loyalists who just slaughtered innocent catholics. example.in 1997 billy wright,leader of the UVF (loyalist group) was killed by the INLA (republican group) in prison.he was a bad bastard and needed to be taken out and he was.in retaliation,the UVF killed 6 innocent catholics.the INLA killed a legitimate target. (as a sidenote.for billy wrights birthday in 1996,his henchmen went out a killed a catholic taxi driver.they ordered a taxi and he drove them to a lane where they wanted to go and they shot him in the back of the head.a man with a wife and kids.now theres bravery for ya)

quote:

Originally said by by Gusty spence (Founder of the UVF) if you cant kill an IRA man, any catholic will do

well, it was something along those lines.

but as far as i know he's now changed his ways..

another terrible act - rising sun bar, graysteel - Derry.

halloween night - about 10 years ago, masked loyalist gunmen enter a bar, say "trick or treat", then open fire and kill.. 7? innocent people in a bar on halloween night.

dont get me wrong, the IRA are no angels either, but their targets are usually more legitimate

quote:

Originally posted by nialsjd sunday bloody sunday, whats that about?

during a march in Derry - 31st Jan, 1971 / 1972 (no sure which).

things turned a little nasty, bit of a riot broke out. 13 unarmed catholics were shot dead by the british army.

there's currently an enquiry into the event.

aparrently some of the soldiers responcible were given medals for their work?

lesprock's da took a fleshwound that day too

quote:

Originally posted by UglyDave dont get me wrong, the IRA are no angels either, but their targets are usually more legitimate

werd.

Remember Loughgall,Warrenpoint,Lord Mountbatten,failed Gibralter attack,the Crossmaglen snipings etc

IRAs worst atrocity = Enniskillen 1988
lost them alot of support.blew up the centaph where mouners where remembering the war dead.all innocents.

Its a place with a pretty f#cked up past, which had resulted in a major lack of investment.

However now there is at least some form of lasting peace, and hopefully, should current talks be successful, this can be built on further by decommissioning and return of devolved power.

The achievements to date, and the changes over the last decade, are something for parties on all sides to be proud of. Whilst nobody will ever forget the lives lost and ruined in the campaigns of violence. There is a renewed hope and optimism, increasing investment is creating new jobs; Belfast is becoming a vibrant modern city, and the people can now elect their own devolved government.

Of course there are still difficulties, for example job applications often have names blanked out to prevent discrimination based on the religious association. And gang related crime is still rife.

The wounds will take generations to heal but step by step the people of Northern Ireland will get there. The model they have used for solving such a deep historic and religious dispute should be one advocated to the rest of the world. For anybody who thinks peace is unachievable where they are need only take a look at Northern Ireland ten years ago and compare it to now. The differences are overwhelming it is a testament to all those involved in bringing about peace, and a lasting tribute to all who lost their lives in the struggle.

quote:

Originally posted by Disco_Gibson IMO the IRA committed some terrible atrocities as i dont agree with the killing of innocents but in 80% of cases they went after military targets,targets that could fire back,

that for one is bullshit, but i am not about to sit and argue about the birmingham bombings, and manchester for that matter, all carried out by the IRA on innocent people doing their shopping. that stuff is all in the past.

but yeah, i am proud to say that both sides have given up with the violence and have turned to peacful means of finishing the argument. i think that it is a good example to set the rest of the world, we have put the past where it belongs, in the past. now the concentration is on the future, and how we can go about making northern ireland a peacful place to live for everyone who lives there. at the end of the day, it should be up to the population of northern ireland to decide, and it looks like they are on the way to making some kind of deal, but the unionists want photographs of decomissioning as proof etc.

so close, yet so far.

quote:

Originally posted by Disco_Gibson so they resort now to selling drugs,prostitution

vive la peace process!!

quote:

Originally posted by tu_face that for one is bullshit, but i am not about to sit and argue about the birmingham bombings, and manchester for that matter, all carried out by the IRA on innocent people doing their shopping. that stuff is all in the past.

There was nothing illegitimate about the Manchester bombing (I assume you're referring to 1996) from an Irish republican point of view, it's economic guerrilla warfare and, as the name suggests, the aim of such actions was to do damage to the British economy; the likes of which it did (e.g. Canary Wharf resulted in lack of investment in London, companies pulling out, hundreds of millions of pounds of damage to buildings, etc.) Had there been a campaign in England like there was in Ireland for the 25-30 years the British economy would have been destroyed. Things like no-warning pub bombings killing civilians are inexcusable, however, in the case of pub bombings in England in the 70s the aim was not to kill civilians, but British military personnel. Unfortunately a lot of innocent people got killed. I can think of a handful of incidents of people who were most likely members of the IRA carrying out illegitimate attacks, literally two or three (out of the thousands of attacks they carried out)

It's hard to see this current deal working in the long-term. All previous deals which have tried to solve the problem (in 1801, 1921, 1973, 1985) have failed because, in my opinion, they ignored the root cause of political violence in Ireland, which is British interference in Ireland. Erradicate that and the problem will be on its way to being solved, for when the British go they won't be coming back, and any attempt to form and independent "Ulster" won't work due to it's small size (it would be less than half the current size of the 6 counties). The Good Friday Agreement is a sectarian solution to a sectarian problem, which might sound rational enough, but I think it's flawed in that it institutionalises sectarianism (future of 6 counties is based on sectarian headcount). The agreement focuses on what divides the people, and not something that will bring them together. If the agreement is a "stepping stone" to a united Ireland, it'll leave unionists completely alienated in an Ireland without British influence. Personally I hope it fails: We've had some form of British rule since 1169, and more recently we've had exclusive unionist rule for 50 years, which didn't work; direct rule from London for 25 years, which didn't work; so-called power-sharing (I say so-called because in reality power lies in London, those with posts at Stormont have irrelevant token roles and no real administrative power), which has collapsed five times in the last five years. The only alternative that hasn't been tried is the one which will lead to a permanent peace - Brits out.

quote:

Originally posted by UglyDave you think the loyalists who've settled there for fuck knows how many years will allow this? if it does happen, a lot more terrorist groups will form trying to get their 6 counties back as part of the UK.

Well since 1921 their central (and sole) argument has been that they are a "majority" and the majority rules. They've held onto this for 83 years and when they actually become the "minority" they have nothing to held on to, and no legitimate claim to go against the wishes of the majority wihin the 6 counties.
My argument would of course be that they are a minority as it is. Going back a bit, in 1918 the people of Ireland returned a majority (73/105) of republican candidates in the general election who fought their campaign solely on a republican ticket. At the time a Sinn F�in activist remarked that the election was "an election for Ireland's freedom", and the people of Ireland opted to set up and independent state through who they returned. The result was ignored by the British and they coerced partition (i.e. the undemocratic process of gerrymandering) on the representatives of D�il �ireann under threat of an immediate and terrible war. The partition of Ireland (and the creation of the 6 and 26 county states) was evidently grossly undemocratic. The so-called democratic process in the six counties today is fundamentally flawed in that the state came about through a process contrary to democracy (in a time of democracy), hence the legitimacy of republican militancy.

An amazing transformation for the PIRA, from being the most efficient guerrilla force in the world to becoming part of the eatablishment they fought for 25 years to destroy. If this deal plays out like it seems it will, the provos will have been beaten and the British will have won. The conflict will be postponed and prolonged as a permanent peace depends on ending British rule, not updating it. Another thing that really gets to some people in the Movement is Gerry Adams' denial that he was in the IRA. He seems to be ashamed of his past, a past which many of his former comrades are extremely proud. I know that people I know who were in the IRA at the same time as him are disgusted with him. It has let to people leaving his party.

"...the British Government has no right in Ireland, never had any right in Ireland, and never can have any right in Ireland..." - JAMES CONNOLLY,
Commandant-General, Dublin Division,
Army of the Irish Republic
9th May 1916

wow, donegalredneck you certainly know your stuff.

As these para-military groups destroy their weapons, will the british army do the same in turn? Meaning will they tear down those outposts and what not?

I have noticed that much of the onus on decomissioning has been placed on republicans. Ive heard little news about the same for the unionists. Only till recently has the UVF(i think it was them so bloody hard to remember all those unionist accronymes) signed on to the peace process with a recongnized cease fire.

i'm buying a gun in 2 weeks. who wants me on their team?

quote:

Originally posted by tu_face that for one is bullshit

bullshit? then prove me wrong.did u not see my post i said most of the time they went after military targets.here in northern ireland where i live,not where you live,they were forever shooting cops,soldiers,bombing patrols,army stations etc etc.of course they did the atrocities,which i mentioned and did not agree with but they occurred the odd time compared to the amount of military targets they went after.the IRA killed more/targeted more members of the security forces than they did innocents.fact.

stay out of the argument if you dont know what your talkin about.

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