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Hi dudes,


Just a question: how do i mix one track into another where the melody begins without a beat...??

Nice example is Push - Universal Nation, where u first hear the melody and after a few secs the beat... How can i mix thiz right considering the beatmatching?


gReetz

Have both records at the same tempo...then start 'universal nation' at the start of one of the playing record's phrases of beats...hope that you pushed off at the right time. Thats really the only way I think.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceDJ Have both records at the same tempo...then start 'universal nation' at the start of one of the playing record's phrases of beats...hope that you pushed off at the right time. Thats really the only way I think.

Agree But the tracks could be a little bit of beat. You can only tell that when "Universal nation" beats come in, but it's too late, cuz every one will now then.

You're probably going to want to cue the track when the beat comes in and make sure the phrases are properly matched.

You need to work on your ability to count in proper time without a kick. It takes a lot of practice. The ability to know the beat and match phrases like this is an important tool in a good DJ's toolbox.

Once you get good, you don't need a beat to beatmatch, you can just hear the rhythm and go off that, also the way most music is made up of which are bars and measure makes the music predictable, this way when that breakdown comes and you want something to happen with the track your bringing in, you can time it, lets say that Push tracks breakdown is 64 bars long, and the track your gonna drop has something at 32 bars, and you want to have it that when Push kicks back in, the track your dropping also kicks in, well easy just drop it 32 bars in, they all vary, but they all work on things happening either 4/8/16/32/64/128.... bars later, this makes it predictable even with tracks you don't know, and even better with tracks you do know.

Well I hope this helps and that this was what your asking....I need sleep.

DannyO is right. Learn how to beatmatch without a kick. There are lots of other elements that can help you, like certain notes that are a bit louder, changes in the structure of the melody, etc...

And again: practice, practice,practice!

I also I agree. Just practice it. if you have some old classical records...try to mix those together. Eventually you'll get a feel for rhythm, and you'll be able to do that...the only way is to match the phrases. Even when you mix tracks with kicks...that shouldn't be what you use to match everything...just because the kicks match doesn't mean the songs do. Try this...when your mixing two songs with kicks, cue up the record for the first beat that has some kind of a melody (bass lines, arpeggios, etc.). Then your going to wait on the next record...wait until the melody is over and then loops...once it starts again, release the record. Sometimes matching phrases can be that easy. And of course knowing a pinch of music theory helps a lot too. Eventually you'll be able to mix the two songs without even listening to the kick....Just keep on practicing. Only experience will give you the edge.

After alot of practice and jsut listening to music it comes naturaly and you will be able to beachmatch even to just vocals with some songs.

If you're having trouble, practice by counting 1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 3-2-3-4, 4-2-3-4, etc. during your set. Notice how song elements come in multiples of four.

One of the most important things I try to teach people is the ability to find the one count. I don't know how many times I've heard inexperienced DJs match the beat, but on different counts (which sounds like complete shit).

Once you are able to match up the one counts, start developing a feel for the phrases. I say "feel" because I think too many people take a scientific approach to phrase matching, where they focus too much on counting the measures and trying to remember numbers. With practice, you'll be able to recognize the length of musical phrases naturally, and you'll be able to feel the right moment to start your cued track.

Hope this helps!

you def. should learn to mix without a kick drum. if i were you i would beatmatch it from the first kick drum, and when you have it set., go back to the very begining of the record and start from there. try to mix it in from the begining and you will hear the little things that make it able to mix w/o a kick....

{smoke}

quote:

Originally posted by dartman you def. should learn to mix without a kick drum. if i were you i would beatmatch it from the first kick drum, and when you have it set., go back to the very begining of the record and start from there. try to mix it in from the begining and you will hear the little things that make it able to mix w/o a kick.... {smoke}

Right. Beatmatching with the kick drum is pretty essential, at least for me. However, once you have the cued track matched, you can go back and start the mix before the kick is there.

quote:

Originally posted by zoomzoom Right. Beatmatching with the kick drum is pretty essential, at least for me. However, once you have the cued track matched, you can go back and start the mix before the kick is there.

I can beatmatch fine without a kick. It took me some time to learn, but now I can basically mix two melodies, without any kick or other 'rythmic' elements.

There's nothing wrong with cueing the track on the first kick though, it makes mixing a lot easier.

quote:

Originally posted by djsphere You can only tell that when "Universal nation" beats come in, but it's too late, cuz every one will now then.

honk, wrong

there is little ticks that are on off beats, cue on the first one and start it on the off beat, and universal nation is in

cueing from the very first kick makes the track easier to mix sure, but sometimes that can mean missing a great part of the track. if you can cue it on the melody then you should go for it, although it is harder to get it spot on for when the beat comes in.

its all about practice

quote:

Originally posted by zoomzoom If you're having trouble, practice by counting 1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 3-2-3-4, 4-2-3-4, etc. during your set. Notice how song elements come in multiples of four. One of the most important things I try to teach people is the ability to find the one count. I don't know how many times I've heard inexperienced DJs match the beat, but on different counts (which sounds like complete shit). Once you are able to match up the one counts, start developing a feel for the phrases. I say "feel" because I think too many people take a scientific approach to phrase matching, where they focus too much on counting the measures and trying to remember numbers. With practice, you'll be able to recognize the length of musical phrases naturally, and you'll be able to feel the right moment to start your cued track. Hope this helps!

I've heard the same, even when a track is perfectly beatmatched, keys matched and everything, it doesn't matter if the track has been dropped at the wrong point.

so true. But like i said, i think the best way is by practicing. Forget all the mathematical stuff. I mean knowing about rhythm and music helps. But once you get the experience, you eventually just feel it. And i think that "feeling it" is the most important thing for a dj. Sometimes when i'm mixing by myself i get so into it, i'm jumping around and stuff like that...but those are also my best sets.

this is how i did it two weeks ago


: let your beat record stop by turning of the power so the record stops slowly

then when it is completly quiet just wait for people to start yelling and wisle wait a bit more put your hand against your ear like if you can't hear them

put op your middle finger press start and let push do the work

they went nuts

quote:

Originally posted by vaes this is how i did it two weeks ago : let your beat record stop by turning of the power so the record stops slowly then when it is completly quiet just wait for people to start yelling and wisle wait a bit more put your hand against your ear like if you can't hear them put op your middle finger press start and let push do the work they went nuts

That's pretty cool. It's also a good way to mix if you can't beatmatch the songs for some reason or don't have enough time(just don't overdo it because it's one of those things where if you do it too much people will assume you can't mix). I guess it wouldn't work as well on a song with a long intro, maybe start the new song after the intro I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by vaes this is how i did it two weeks ago : let your beat record stop by turning of the power so the record stops slowly then when it is completly quiet just wait for people to start yelling and wisle wait a bit more put your hand against your ear like if you can't hear them put op your middle finger press start and let push do the work they went nuts

I can imagine that!!

But... i can't just turn off power every time i want to mix a track with a non-beat intro... Like Paragliders - Oasis.. another track that is imo so hard to mix...

i'm practising for 8 months i think and i can't mix for a full hour without making a mistake (beatmatch, to early mixed, too late etc)... so if some can teach me some basic steps i should make to mix decently... please say so... And even when my mix is right, it sounds not decent enough for me... melody and the also the bass is hard for me... What do u do for example with to very different basses?

btw : I met once a guy who mixed very fast at 150 bpm... He managed to mix 60 - 80 vinyls in 1 hour... His mix was just fabulous (like a megamix of Sensation)... Now i was trying the same thing, but it was awefull ... Or is it just becoz i'm mixing with cd's?


gReetz

fx units come in handy with tracks that are a shit to mix. you can create your own break at the end of a track then fade it out with an echo and bring you big-intro track in..

quote:

Originally posted by DannyO Once you get good, you don't need a beat to beatmatch, you can just hear the rhythm and go off that, also the way most music is made up of which are bars and measure makes the music predictable, this way when that breakdown comes and you want something to happen with the track your bringing in, you can time it, lets say that Push tracks breakdown is 64 bars long, and the track your gonna drop has something at 32 bars, and you want to have it that when Push kicks back in, the track your dropping also kicks in, well easy just drop it 32 bars in, they all vary, but they all work on things happening either 4/8/16/32/64/128.... bars later, this makes it predictable even with tracks you don't know, and even better with tracks you do know. Well I hope this helps and that this was what your asking....I need sleep.

This was very well explained! Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by diddi i'm practising for 8 months i think and i can't mix for a full hour without making a mistake (beatmatch, to early mixed, too late etc)... so if some can teach me some basic steps i should make to mix decently... please say so... And even when my mix is right, it sounds not decent enough for me...

Well for beatmatching it just comes down to practice, and after awhile you can match anything, as for it not sounding good to you, one thing you gotta know is, when training your ears you get better at noticing things, 8 months ago you could of listened to a set like a Tiesto one and thought its awesome, why do people bash his mixing, but when you train yourself and learn what to listen for and how things work, you start picking up mistakes in mixes you once thought was great, so you can make a mix right now that you might not think is decent, but you could of easly thought it was decent if you heard it 8 months ago, this is one reason why people start bashing certain DJs, because they know what to listen for becuase they have trained there ears from DJin, or have just listened for along time, this then leads you on to the really good DJs out there.

I ain't bashing Tiesto, so lets not get into that.

Cheers Steve, glad to help.

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