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-- Roads Gone Wild!

Roads Gone Wild!

The link was originally posted in the political forum.
It's 3 pages long, so I'm not going to paste it, but have a read. Basically it says that making roads seem more dangerous will actually make them safer! What do you think, could Canada use this?

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

good article..

I dont agree with making it incovenienient for drivers. Toronto city council tries this approach with pointless no turn intersections, one way roads and traffic calming (!) measures. All they do is create more pollution and more road rage. The best way to get people out of their cars is to:

a) develop communities that are mixed residential/commercial so that most daily chores such as food shopping can be done within walking distance.

b) provide a viable transit system with frequency, affordability and with routes that take people to where they actually want to go (at any hour of the day or night)

c) remember that cheap "solutions" such as bike lanes don't work in a country that has snow for 7 month of the year.

If i didnt have to buy a car and had a real alternative to transportation i wouldnt waste my money on one.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I dont agree with making it incovenienient for drivers. Toronto city council tries this approach with pointless no turn intersections, one way roads and traffic calming (!) measures. All they do is create more pollution and more road rage. The best way to get people out of their cars is to: a) develop communities that are mixed residential/commercial so that most daily chores such as food shopping can be done within walking distance. b) provide a viable transit system with frequency, affordability and with routes that take people to where they actually want to go (at any hour of the day or night) c) remember that cheap "solutions" such as bike lanes don't work in a country that has snow for 7 month of the year. If i didnt have to buy a car and had a real alternative to transportation i wouldnt waste my money on one.

Jayx1....you know what???















you're right

Quite simply, there needs to be a massive infusion of forsight and dollars to greatly expand the subway. The other points Jay mentions are quite valid also.

The problem has always been justifying to the Provincial and Federal Government that Toronto direly needs and deserves a massive proporation of the tax dollars.

I grew up in Sudbury and have historically always remembered the fight and resistance outside the GTA any time Toronto gets Ontario or Federal tax dollars but considering the percentage of the population and it's future trending, it's a simple matter of logic.

I'm not talking a few more miles of track like the Sheppard line....we need comprehensive expansion to many parts of the city!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I dont agree with making it incovenienient for drivers. Toronto city council tries this approach with pointless no turn intersections, one way roads and traffic calming (!) measures. All they do is create more pollution and more road rage.

did you even read the whole thing? it pretty much say that you shouldnt do the things that toronto city concil have made...

the whole pilosohy of it is to put the responsiblity on the driver/pedestrian, not the road.. i think this is very true, and it surprices me that you dont think so, since you usually agrees that liberal is the way to go to get people understand things...

quote:

The best way to get people out of their cars is to: a) develop communities that are mixed residential/commercial so that most daily chores such as food shopping can be done within walking distance. b) provide a viable transit system with frequency, affordability and with routes that take people to where they actually want to go (at any hour of the day or night) c) remember that cheap "solutions" such as bike lanes don't work in a country that has snow for 7 month of the year. If i didnt have to buy a car and had a real alternative to transportation i wouldnt waste my money on one.

agree

Re: Roads Gone Wild!

quote:

Originally posted by Superstar The link was originally posted in the political forum. It's 3 pages long, so I'm not going to paste it, but have a read. Basically it says that making roads seem more dangerous will actually make them safer! What do you think, could Canada use this? http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

No, Canada could not use this. It's great for the Dutch, but Canadians, especially people in the GTA, have a completely different mentality on the road. That article is talking about people actually yielding the right of way - Toronto drivers can't even seem to figure out the right of way at a 4-way stop, and there's an intersection about 30 feet away from my house where there's another collision every week because someone failed to yield the right of way. This is on a residential side street, not at a major intersection. Pedestrians downtown will also walk right in front of moving cars, completely oblivious to the danger to their own safety - if that doesn't inspire road rage, I don't know what does.

Ontario drivers think they own the road. That is the fundamental problem here (aside from the points that Jay brought up, which are equally valid).

Very good read. It will never happen here though, at least not for a very long time.

Re: Re: Roads Gone Wild!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Ontario drivers think they own the road. That is the fundamental problem here (aside from the points that Jay brought up, which are equally valid).

I tried critiquing Ontario drivers the other day. ALl i got was "dont generalize" and "bullshit".

There is no doubt in my mind that Ontario drivers are poorly trained and selfish drivers who do not understand driving ettiquette or discipline. My uncle drove a truck for many years and apparently in the trucking world, ontario is known as a parriah for these types of behaviours.

Re: Re: Re: Roads Gone Wild!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 I tried critiquing Ontario drivers the other day. ALl i got was "dont generalize" and "bullshit". There is no doubt in my mind that Ontario drivers are poorly trained and selfish drivers who do not understand driving ettiquette or discipline. My uncle drove a truck for many years and apparently in the trucking world, ontario is known as a parriah for these types of behaviours.

Well, truckers in Ontario are lousy too - on the 400 you see TONS of trucks/tractor-trailers in the 3rd or 4th lanes over, sometimes even the far left lane. And I can't count the number of times a trucker has decided to merge into my (left) lane *milliseconds* before I'm about to pass him, when that same lane had been totally empty for 30 seconds before. Or the times I've seen a truck block 4 lanes (both directions) of traffic on roads for 5 minutes while they take their sweet time backing into a driveway or parking lot, and then half the time the truck is too big so they're still blocking lanes after they've parked it. Pull over onto the fucking side you idiot! At least that way you're only blocking ONE lane, for a SHORT time.

In fact, I think truckers in Ontario alone are responsible for at least 20% of the accidents and road rage. They REALLY drive like they own the road, because they know that everyone else will yield to them because they're 5 times the size and weight. Trucks are supposed to be in the far right lane at all times and only pass when the left lane is completely clear - there's NO excuse for them to be 4 lanes over!

Re: Re: Roads Gone Wild!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, Canada could not use this. It's great for the Dutch, but Canadians, especially people in the GTA, have a completely different mentality on the road. That article is talking about people actually yielding the right of way - Toronto drivers can't even seem to figure out the right of way at a 4-way stop, and there's an intersection about 30 feet away from my house where there's another collision every week because someone failed to yield the right of way. This is on a residential side street, not at a major intersection. Pedestrians downtown will also walk right in front of moving cars, completely oblivious to the danger to their own safety - if that doesn't inspire road rage, I don't know what does. Ontario drivers think they own the road. That is the fundamental problem here (aside from the points that Jay brought up, which are equally valid).

True, true...

For the record, even though my uncle was an Ontario trucker, he had recieved a lot of training in Germany. And also its worth noting that Ontario truckers are included in truckers' assessment of the road conditions here.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Roads Gone Wild!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Well, truckers in Ontario are lousy too - on the 400 you see TONS of trucks/tractor-trailers in the 3rd or 4th lanes over, sometimes even the far left lane. And I can't count the number of times a trucker has decided to merge into my (left) lane *milliseconds* before I'm about to pass him, when that same lane had been totally empty for 30 seconds before. Or the times I've seen a truck block 4 lanes (both directions) of traffic on roads for 5 minutes while they take their sweet time backing into a driveway or parking lot, and then half the time the truck is too big so they're still blocking lanes after they've parked it. Pull over onto the fucking side you idiot! At least that way you're only blocking ONE lane, for a SHORT time. In fact, I think truckers in Ontario alone are responsible for at least 20% of the accidents and road rage. They REALLY drive like they own the road, because they know that everyone else will yield to them because they're 5 times the size and weight. Trucks are supposed to be in the far right lane at all times and only pass when the left lane is completely clear - there's NO excuse for them to be 4 lanes over!

Thats a mean response. My dad is a professional truck driver who owns his own business - I went on trips with him before, and what I've seen is making me LAUGH MY ASS OFF at what you just said ... regular cars dont respect huge trucks at all ... they at times change lanes fast, brake in front of the truck for no reason - WHY ARE THEY MESSING WITH THE MONSTER TRUCK, at times WITH A LOADED TRAILER OF HEAVY GOODS? And its not as easy maintaining speeds/changing gears and accelerating on trucks ... not easy to manouevre. They make WIDE turns and many normal card drives DONT KNOW THAT or DONT GIVE A RATS ASS. In US cars respect truckers more than here in Canada, from what my dad said and from what I saw. Truck driving IS A VERY DIFFICULT business.

Trucks are not supposed to be in the far left lane, of course, but I dont think they are SUPPOSED to stay in the right-most lane - isn't that where cars enter/exist the road? Middle lanes are for trucks ... Steady speeds are vital to tractor trailer operators ... There IS A BIG difference between driving a truck and a car.

CARS NEED TO RESPECT TRUCKS. Trucks are the vehicles that bring goods to stores, shops, warehouses, etc. With regards to what you said about trucks pulling into a driveaway - very selfish and uncalled for. Truckers can wait for cars to pass, but they dont have all day - yes, it does take them some time to make their wide turn onto a street that could occupy 5 lanes of traffic. Dont forget, trucks have more things to do than a regular car driver, like having to stop at weight stations, log checks are performed regularly, border crossings are tight and picky, plus every single stop and slow-down caused by motorists who cut them off or ignore them ...

There are idiot truck drivers who are fed up with road rage and just dont give a rats ass, but come on, all I hear from you is junk.

20% is a harsh number of trucks that cause accidents. I wonder what kind of "trucks" you include in that. I mean, if a FULLY LOADED tractor trailer is going 100 km/h and a car breaks ahead quite easily for whatever reason - you expect a giant truck to do the same just as easily ...

please reconsider your post, I am offended ...

quote:

c) remember that cheap "solutions" such as bike lanes don't work in a country that has snow for 7 month of the year.

God I'd love to see more bike lanes here. I ride most of the year, and know others that do too, and riding on some of the streets is quite scary.

bike lanes piss me off. NOBODY ever uses them. And usually they take up half a lane. If bike lanes can be built WITHOUT impeding traffic such as closing a lane to make room then im all for them.

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