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British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

Ummm so I guess you can’t say Islam is a “vicious, wicked faith” in the UK without getting arrested.

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BNP leader arrested over inciting race hatred 11:41am 14th December 2004 Arrested: Nick Griffin British National Party leader Nick Griffin has been arrested on suspicion of incitement to commit racial hatred after an undercover TV documentary on racism in the organisation. Earlier today, the founding chairman of the BNP was arrested. John Tyndall, 70, of Brighton, was arrested on suspicion of incitement to commit racial hatred following a speech he made in Burnley, Lancashire, in March, a BNP spokesperson said. Parts of the speech were covertly filmed and shown in the BBC programme, Secret Agent. The programme featured covertly-filmed footage showing BNP activists confessing to race-hate crimes and party leader Nick Griffin condemning Islam as a "vicious, wicked faith". Tyndall, who founded the National Front in 1982, was released on police bail pending further inquiries yesterday. A BNP spokesperson said: "The BNP condemns this arrest because the party is committed to freedom of speech, though that doesn't mean that the party necessarily approves of the words for which Mr Tyndall has been arrested."

Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by occrider Ummm so I guess you can’t say Islam is a “vicious, wicked faith” in the UK without getting arrested.

Your talking out of your arse mate

Nick Griffin is a fucking c.u.n.t an I'm glad he's in jail

He was arrested for RACIAL hatred, not, as you falsly try to imply, for religious hatred...

Absolutly delighted...the guy represents evil..and hatred..and is a total tosser..i believe they hired a black dj for their christmas party just a couple of weeks back by mistake of course...and i quote from The Sunday Times "he sounded white on the phone" a Mr bob garner was quoted as members of the far right british national party walked out of their own christmas party at a top london hotel..ok that bit is humourous but they are a cancer among british society..im happy..should be interesting

Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by occrider Ummm so I guess you can’t say Islam is a “vicious, wicked faith” in the UK without getting arrested.

So tell me Occrider, are you opposed to anti-Racism laws or summat?

Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by George Smiley Your talking out of your arse mate Nick Griffin is a fucking c.u.n.t an I'm glad he's in jail

I see ... so just because you disagree with the man's political/personal views that justifies his imprisonment?

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He was arrested for RACIAL hatred, not, as you falsly try to imply, for religious hatred...

The statement for which he was arrested for is this:

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"That's the way that this wicked, vicious faith has expanded -- through a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago until it's now sweeping country after country," http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/e...reut/index.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't look racial to me. And even if it was racial that doesn't quite condone the arrest.

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So tell me Occrider, are you opposed to anti-Racism laws or summat?

Why yes, as a matter of fact I am. I thought I made my views clear when the UK first passed the anti-racism law? Legislating racism or hatred makes about as much sense as legislating morality. It infringes on personal rights and the freedom of speech.

I know what your saying, and it's a hard thing to balance (free speach/inciting hate). But these guys have so far got plenty of freedom of speach, and their entire policy is based on hate. The wank will get off probebly. But anything which hurts the BNP is good in my view.

Edit: It works against for example extreme Islamic preachers saying blowing up your shoes on a plane might actually be good idea. Otherwise you'd have no law to stop people trying to get young people to do silly things. Like going to afganistan to learn how to blow stuff/people up.

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Originally posted by Dervish I know what your saying, and it's a hard thing to balance (free speach/inciting hate). But these guys have so far got plenty of freedom of speach, and their entire policy is based on hate. The wank will get off probebly. But anything which hurts the BNP is good in my view. Edit: It works against for example extreme Islamic preachers saying blowing up your shoes on a plane might actually be good idea. Otherwise you'd have no law to stop people trying to get young people to do silly things. Like going to afganistan to learn how to blow stuff/people up.

The ends justify the means? Kind of like how conservatives argue that it doesn’t matter that Bush misrepresented Iraq, we’re better off without Saddam?

There's already laws preventing people from committing illegal acts … it’s called jail. Until you actually commit a crime, you shouldn’t be imprisoned for merely speaking about it. Or should the government arrest you for criticizing and inciting “hate” towards the government under the impression that your speech will be subsequently followed up with subversive acts?

Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrender

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Originally posted by occrider I see ... so just because you disagree with the man's political/personal views that justifies his imprisonment? The statement for which he was arrested for is this: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't look racial to me. And even if it was racial that doesn't quite condone the arrest. Why yes, as a matter of fact I am. I thought I made my views clear when the UK first passed the anti-racism law? Legislating racism or hatred makes about as much sense as legislating morality. It infringes on personal rights and the freedom of speech.

So what you are saying is that you see no problems with excluding somebody from working somewhere because they have a certain skin colour?

There is a big difference between race and religion - religion is a choice, race isn't so shouldn't be criticised

As for Nick griffin, there isn't much that would not justify having his bollox rubbed against a cheese grater

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Originally posted by Dervish I know what your saying, and it's a hard thing to balance (free speach/inciting hate). But these guys have so far got plenty of freedom of speach, and their entire policy is based on hate. The wank will get off probebly. But anything which hurts the BNP is good in my view. Edit: It works against for example extreme Islamic preachers saying blowing up your shoes on a plane might actually be good idea. Otherwise you'd have no law to stop people trying to get young people to do silly things. Like going to afganistan to learn how to blow stuff/people up.

And that Abu Hamza is another c.u.n.t who'd get my cheese grater too!

I don't think Occrider knows enuf about the BNP or he wouldn't be defending what they do...

i used to think that to criminalizing hate speech is a good idea, however, i have changed my mind and i think its stupid, everyone should be able to say what they want to, even tho its racist (and imo very wrong).

I think this BPN leader should have expressed his feeling in art to avoid possible criminal charges.

Next time make a statue reperseting "the way that this wicked, vicious faith has expanded -- through a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago until it's now sweeping country after country"

duh

Re: Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surre

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Originally posted by George Smiley So what you are saying is that you see no problems with excluding somebody from working somewhere because they have a certain skin colour? There is a big difference between race and religion - religion is a choice, race isn't so shouldn't be criticised As for Nick griffin, there isn't much that would not justify having his bollox rubbed against a cheese grater

Of course excluding someone from working somewhere is a problem. That would be a violation of the equal employment opportunity act here in the US. But that's not the same as simple speech.

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I don't think Occrider knows enuf about the BNP or he wouldn't be defending what they do...

Well you're right, I don't know a thing about BNP. I do know of the KKK though and I support their right to exist and propogate their BS. So long as they don't violate my, or anyone else's rights they can say whatever they want in my opinion. I'll simply choose to not listen. Is the BNP any worse than the KKK? By the way, I'm not defending what they do, I'm defending their right to say what they're saying.

Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by occrider Ummm so I guess you can’t say Islam is a “vicious, wicked faith” in the UK without getting arrested.

Is it?

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Originally posted by Yoepus I think this BPN leader should have expressed his feeling in art to avoid possible criminal charges. Next time make a statue reperseting "the way that this wicked, vicious faith has expanded -- through a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago until it's now sweeping country after country" duh

LMFAO!!!!!!!! Nice one!

Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by erdega Is it?

Is Islam vicious and wicked? Yea pretty much. Along with Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. They're not traits inherent in the religions themselves so much as it's the traits of the people who practice said religions.

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Originally posted by occrider The ends justify the means? Kind of like how conservatives argue that it doesn’t matter that Bush misrepresented Iraq, we’re better off without Saddam? There's already laws preventing people from committing illegal acts … it’s called jail. Until you actually commit a crime, you shouldn’t be imprisoned for merely speaking about it. Or should the government arrest you for criticizing and inciting “hate” towards the government under the impression that your speech will be subsequently followed up with subversive acts?

It's not an end justify the means arguement. All the law is there to do is to stop people from inciting hate of another section of socity.

1) Our socity finds it unacceptable to judge someone based upon race or religion. (as you've said employment law already staes that)

2) If you want to propogate something our socity which incites hate of another section of our socity based upon race then our socity finds that unacceptable (you can have your view, even tell people about it if you like, you just can't incite hate.

Telling people to kill other people based upon race and so on.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech S

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Originally posted by occrider Of course excluding someone from working somewhere is a problem. That would be a violation of the equal employment opportunity act here in the US. But that's not the same as simple speech. Well you're right, I don't know a thing about BNP. I do know of the KKK though and I support their right to exist and propogate their BS. So long as they don't violate my, or anyone else's rights they can say whatever they want in my opinion. I'll simply choose to not listen. Is the BNP any worse than the KKK? By the way, I'm not defending what they do, I'm defending their right to say what they're saying.

Its not just what they say, its what saying it provokes others to do...(and that is what they intended by saying it)

Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surrenders …

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Originally posted by occrider Is Islam vicious and wicked? Yea pretty much. Along with Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. They're not traits inherent in the religions themselves so much as it's the traits of the people who practice said religions.

You are backtracking and carry brutal relativity on your part in part to suit the jewish agenda where muslim inspired and executed terror is accepatable and encouraged by american controlled media in bosnia and kosovo and russia but in Iraq and Palestine is bad.

There is only one religion nowadays that aspires to physical conquest , beheadings, mutilation and female submission.


And why are you quoting a self described racist from a british racist party BNP?
Is he ok too if he fullfills temporary plans against muslims this time.
Now if he said that Jews are wicked and evil, would you be qouting him here?
That guy would be locked up right away.

Re: Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech Surre

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Originally posted by erdega You are backtracking and carry brutal relativity on your part in part to suit the jewish agenda where muslim inspired and executed terror is accepatable and encouraged by american controlled media in bosnia and kosovo and russia but in Iraq and Palestine is bad. There is only one religion nowadays that aspires to physical conquest , beheadings, mutilation and female submission. And why are you quoting a self described racist from a british racist party BNP? Is he ok too if he fullfills temporary plans against muslims this time. Now if he said that Jews are wicked and evil, would you be qouting him here? That guy would be locked up right away.

Oh he loves the Jews, that Nick Griffin does!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: British Party Leader Arrested for “Inciting Hate”. Free Speech S

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Originally posted by George Smiley Oh he loves the Jews, that Nick Griffin does!

LMFAO (who'd of thought so much humour in the political forum)

Didn't he once offer to let a black jew (his jewishness offset his blackness) "his" place in the country and his job because he like them so much?

Sad thing is they let the guy out on bail..i find it amazing people defending this guy in this forum under the guise of his freedom of free speech..the web is a wonderful place perhaps a bit of research by those people who insist on his freedoms of speech might enlighten them to what this guy and his neo nazi mates in the BNP are really all about.. and for those of us who have grown up listening to these wankers i dont think we have much defending to do really..

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Originally posted by Dervish It's not an end justify the means arguement. All the law is there to do is to stop people from inciting hate of another section of socity.

And who dictates what can be considered inciting hate of another section of society? What part of "Islam is vicious and wicked" is a call to violence? What if I said: "christianity is a bunch of crap, all christians and particularly southern baptists are idiots; the world would be better without them"? What if I said: "white southern trailer trash contribute nothing to society and they are simply a burden of our tax dollars. Society would be better without them"? Or even better: "illegal immigrants take our jobs, ruin our schools, and are all on welfare ... we need to take back our country!"? They all could easily be interpreted as "inciting racism" in as much as saying "islam is vicious and wicked". The problem with the law is that any religious criticism can be interpreted as inciting religious or racial hate.

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1) Our socity finds it unacceptable to judge someone based upon race or religion. (as you've said employment law already staes that)

Well I'm not sure about your society but our society does not find it unacceptable to judge someone based on race or religion. Our society finds it unacceptable to deny an invidual's right to equal opportunities in society. You can judge a person or think however you like about them.

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2) If you want to propogate something our socity which incites hate of another section of our socity based upon race then our socity finds that unacceptable (you can have your view, even tell people about it if you like, you just can't incite hate. Telling people to kill other people based upon race and so on.

How is me telling someone "my view" in the same words that this BNP leader used, not inciting hate? What maybe if I only tell one person that Islam is vicious and wicked it's ok? Two people? At 5 people am I suddenly "inciting" hate? If the guy wants to stand on a street corner, looking like an idiot, and say we should throw the Arabs into the sea than let him. The second he or his group commits an illegal act of violence is when the law steps in for punishment. To throw the guy in jail for speech utilizes the same rationale as the governemnt throwing you in jail for holding rallies that criticize the government under the pretext that you are inciting a revolution or subversive activities.

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Originally posted by erdega You are backtracking and carry brutal relativity on your part in part to suit the jewish agenda where muslim inspired and executed terror is accepatable and encouraged by american controlled media in bosnia and kosovo and russia but in Iraq and Palestine is bad.

Huh? Please make some sense. Point out where I ever said that Muslim inspired terrorism was "ok" in the Balkans but not in Iraq?

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There is only one religion nowadays that aspires to physical conquest , beheadings, mutilation and female submission.

Yea and historically all religions have aspired towards conquest and brutality. THe point is is that all religions are shit because all are suceptible to abuse and fundamentalism.

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And why are you quoting a self described racist from a british racist party BNP? Is he ok too if he fullfills temporary plans against muslims this time. Now if he said that Jews are wicked and evil, would you be qouting him here? That guy would be locked up right away.

Do you even bother to read the posts in this thread? If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not condoning or supporting the content of what he is saying, I'm supporting his right to say it regardless of who he's attacking. I could care less if he's attacking Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Leprechauns ... whoever.

Can you give me a link that says Nick Griffin was arrested FOR saying "Islam is a wicked faith"?

All the sources I have read say he was arrested following that documentary...

You did watch the documentary, didn't you?

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Originally posted by George Smiley Can you give me a link that says Nick Griffin was arrested FOR saying "Islam is a wicked faith"? All the sources I have read say he was arrested following that documentary... You did watch the documentary, didn't you?

All news sources state that he was arrested for what he said on the documentary ... these news sources than subsequentely quote that particular passage. I would love to see the documentary but unfortunately I live in teh US. Did you see you the documentary? Can you point out what he specifically said that was "arrestable"? However, even if he said something that can in no way be misconstrued as anything but racial hatred, I would still view that as protected free speech under the presumption that we have a natural right to speak our minds regardless of content and how that may influence others. I'm going to put you in jail for robbing a bank, not for talking about robbing a bank and telling all your friends that it could feasibly get you and them rich.

Occrider,

Forget about it, free-speech in Europe is A-OK.

Its the patriot act thats the one stripping precious rights away from the people remember?

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