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-- Abbas calls for an end to Israeli occupation

Abbas calls for an end to Israeli occupation

Abbas calls for an end to Israeli occupation
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/...st_x.htm?csp=34

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) � Cloaking himself in Yasser Arafat's legacy, interim Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas opened his campaign for president Saturday with a pledge to fulfill Palestinian dreams of statehood.

Abbas, the front-runner in the Jan. 9 election, called on Israel to end its occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem � areas Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast War. He said he favors a negotiated settlement and reiterated his backing for the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

"Israel must pull out of all Palestinian lands occupied in 1967. We must end the occupation," Abbas told hundreds of supporters. "We cannot compromise on Jerusalem."

Israel and the Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital.

"We are choosing the path of peace and negotiation," Abbas added. "If there is no peace here, there will be no peace in the Middle East or the rest of the world."

The Palestinian goals in the peace process that Abbas laid out mirrored those sought by Arafat � and most Palestinians. Abbas � who is the candidate of Arafat's ruling Fatah movement and who faces six opponents in the presidential vote � has repeatedly made clear he intends to present himself as the late Palestinian leader's heir, despite their often rocky relationship.

Since Arafat's death Nov. 11, Abbas has sought to harness Arafat's popularity. Abbas' rally began with a moment of silence for Arafat and he sprinkled his speech with references to the late leader.

Abbas also appeared alongside Arafat in campaign posters and advertisements that ran prominently in Palestinian newspapers Saturday. "On your path, we will achieve the Palestinian dream," the ads say.

In his speech, Abbas reiterated promises to hold parliamentary elections in the first half of 2005, shortly after the January presidential race.

The militant group Hamas welcomed Abbas' call for elections, but urged him to follow through on the promise.

"So far no date has been set for this election," said Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri. "We hope the Palestinian Authority will fulfill its promises regarding the political partnership."

Popular at the local level, Hamas made a strong showing in municipal elections this week and could do well in the legislative vote. Hamas is boycotting the presidential vote.

Palestinian officials said final results from the municipal elections would be delayed until Sunday because candidates in two communities had requested a review. According to incomplete preliminary results from the 26 communities that voted, Fatah won at least 14 races and Hamas won nine.

Abbas said peace with Israel was conditional on the release of all Palestinian prisoners, especially jailed uprising leader Marwan Barghouti. Barghouti, a rival in Fatah, dropped his plans to run for president under intense pressure from party members.

Abbas told Fatah supporters he was determined to provide security to his people, and continue the struggle against Israel's partially completed West Bank barrier.

The barrier, which dips into the West Bank in some areas, has divided Palestinian towns and separated farmers from their land and children from their schools. The 425-mile barrier is about one-third complete.

Abbas also pledged to resolve the problem of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees and their descendants. Himself a refugee from what is now the northern Israeli city of Safed, Abbas called the refugee issue "very important and very dangerous."

The refugees fled or were forced to flee their homes when Israel was established in 1948 and want to return. Israel rejects any large-scale return, saying it would destroy the country's Jewish character.

Palestinian newspapers were full of campaign advertisements Saturday. Human-rights worker Mustafa Barghouti, running a distant second to Abbas in opinion polls, appeared on the front page of the al-Ayyam daily and had billboard ads throughout the West Bank.

"Put the cause in safe hands," the candidate says in one ad, Jerusalem's Dome of the Rock mosque pictured in the background.

With the powerful Fatah party behind him, Abbas is expected to coast to victory. Israel and the United States also quietly back the moderate pragmatist.

Also Saturday, Israeli troops killed a Palestinian militant after a lengthy standoff. The militant was identified as Thaer Abu Kanel, a deputy of Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, a violent group linked to Fatah.

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Did you?

In other news the president of Kenya, Mwai Kibaki, has re-newed his pledge to get rid of poverty

Sevas Stra demands that all lands in the Middle East be turned over to Israel and that all that resist fight like men.

Ok, I know my view on this is gonna be biased since I was born in israel and lived there for 13 years. But Israel was ATTACKED in the 6 day war. ATTACKED. From both sides. Why should they give back land they took over while defending themselves from an attack? They've already given back the Sinai dessert and the Gaza strip. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any talks of peace, but im sick of people making Israel to be the Devil of the middle east. Its not their fault they have a dumbass prime minister, god he's an Idiot

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Tomer Ok, I know my view on this is gonna be biased since I was born in israel and lived there for 13 years. But Israel was ATTACKED in the 6 day war. ATTACKED. From both sides. Why should they give back land they took over while defending themselves from an attack? They've already given back the Sinai dessert and the Gaza strip. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any talks of peace, but im sick of people making Israel to be the Devil of the middle east. Its not their fault they have a dumbass prime minister, god he's an Idiot

So basically, what your suggesting is that you add nearly 2 million Palestinian votes into the Israeli elections? How'd you like a Palestinian PM?!

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Tomer Ok, I know my view on this is gonna be biased since I was born in israel and lived there for 13 years. But Israel was ATTACKED in the 6 day war. ATTACKED. From both sides. Why should they give back land they took over while defending themselves from an attack? They've already given back the Sinai dessert and the Gaza strip. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any talks of peace, but im sick of people making Israel to be the Devil of the middle east. Its not their fault they have a dumbass prime minister, god he's an Idiot

Also, altho it is true the Arab states were the aggressors in the Six Day war, is that any reason to take it out on the people of the West Bank?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley So basically, what your suggesting is that you add nearly 2 million Palestinian votes into the Israeli elections? How'd you like a Palestinian PM?!

Yep, its done Israel worse in occupation. Just give it up already. Pulling out totally will benefit Israel as well.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Also, altho it is true the Arab states were the aggressors in the Six Day war, is that any reason to take it out on the people of the West Bank?

I agree that the treatment of the people is not right, but even if they did pull out completely, you and I both know that would not end the conflict, since most terrorists are not gonna stop till Israel is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Tomer I agree that the treatment of the people is not right, but even if they did pull out completely, you and I both know that would not end the conflict, since most terrorists are not gonna stop till Israel is gone.

So what do you suggest?

(BTW, I agree pulling out wont end the conflict, but I belive it will be the beggining of the end. Ending the occupation will remove the greatest source of discontent towards Israel by Palestinians and should trigger a reduction in the amount of people signing up for terrorist groups - most Palestinians aren't rabid Islamists afterall)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley So what do you suggest?

I dont know...
I didn't say there was an easy solution, just that pulling out wasn't going to end it.

Maybe they could trade leaders for a whole month, like on Trading Spouses or whatever, that should be hillarious.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley (BTW, I agree pulling out wont end the conflict, but I belive it will be the beggining of the end. Ending the occupation will remove the greatest source of discontent towards Israel by Palestinians and should trigger a reduction in the amount of people signing up for terrorist groups - most Palestinians aren't rabid Islamists afterall)

Yeah, just like the Gaza strip after Israel gave that back, right?

When did Israel give the Gaza Strip back then?

I haven't heard of any settlements being dismantled yet...and I have also not seen anything to suggest that Israel is "giving Gaza back" either, just dismantling the settlements...

what has abbas called for that numourous people before him have called for?? nothings going to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley When did Israel give the Gaza Strip back then? I haven't heard of any settlements being dismantled yet...and I have also not seen anything to suggest that Israel is "giving Gaza back" either, just dismantling the settlements...

1994 May 18: Israeli troops leave most of the Gaza Strip, and control is passed on to the Palestinian National Authority.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/gazastrp.htm

Are the people who settled there after the 67' war supposed to just leave? I know there are many orthodox jews who settle and have huge families just because its "their land" and such shit, and I really can't say I agree with them, but other then those few areas gaza is under the palestinian's control

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Tomer 1994 May 18: Israeli troops leave most of the Gaza Strip, and control is passed on to the Palestinian National Authority. http://i-cias.com/e.o/gazastrp.htm Are the people who settled there after the 67' war supposed to just leave? I know there are many orthodox jews who settle and have huge families just because its "their land" and such shit, and I really can't say I agree with them, but other then those few areas gaza is under the palestinian's control

Well if the settlements were still there (and everything that comes with that) I can hardly see how this constitutes "leaving Gaza". Also, the PA would not have had complete sovereignty over Gaza as amongst other things it would not retain control over its borders - Israel would. Anyway, the Oslo Accords were a farce and were never gonna achieve anything...

Georgey,

The whole concept for achieving peace between Israel and the Palestinians is centered around one idea: Land for peace.

Unfortunately the Palestinians can make no believable assurances whatsoever to Israel in regards to peace. Therefore why should Israel give land away? Especially when considering that Israelis believe giving land away will bring not more peace, but more war?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Georgey, The whole concept for achieving peace between Israel and the Palestinians is centered around one idea: Land for peace. Unfortunately the Palestinians can make no believable assurances whatsoever to Israel in regards to peace. Therefore why should Israel give land away? Especially when considering that Israelis believe giving land away will bring not more peace, but more war?

The 'land for peace' notion is a pile of shit totally in Israel's favour. It means Israel can use any instance of violence (which there obviously will be given the conditions the Palestinians live under) to not give away any land that it does not want to

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The 'land for peace' notion is a pile of shit totally in Israel's favour. It means Israel can use any instance of violence (which there obviously will be given the conditions the Palestinians live under) to not give away any land that it does not want to

I don't understand how land for peace is a totally in Israel's favor.
The Palestinians can use any notion of 'land' they want returned to legitimize their violence.

Also note that in 1993 Palestinian living conditions were probably at the highest levels they have ever been. So using the 'conditions' argument is applicable perhaps to justify violence today, not back then.

Lastly 'land for peace' might be a pile of shit (it obviously didn't work so one can make an easy argument of it) but the facts do not change:

Israelis want peace.
Palestinians (supposedly) want land.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I don't understand how land for peace is a totally in Israel's favor. The Palestinians can use any notion of 'land' they want returned to legitimize their violence.

No, there was no legislation giving Palestinians the right to use force to claim land, whereas Israel could use force to claim land

quote:

Also note that in 1993 Palestinian living conditions were probably at the highest levels they have ever been. So using the 'conditions' argument is applicable perhaps to justify violence today, not back then.

Well after the election of Netanyahu, the Palestinian economy totally collapsed thanks to his blockades etc. He also DOUBLED the amount of settlements in the occupied territories...can you blame the Palestinians for returning to violence after that?!

quote:

Israelis want peace. Palestinians (supposedly) want land.

Well I dont think you can speak for every Israeli can you? What about the settlers? Do they want peace??

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley No, there was no legislation giving Palestinians the right to use force to claim land, whereas Israel could use force to claim land

I don't think Israel has any legislation to use force to claim land either. Perhaps you can point me to the right legal document.

Regardless, Palestinians incase you have not noticed, don't operate or fight according to the jurisdiction of 'law'. As they so craftly have demonstrated to the world with their use of terror. There is no legislation giving Palestinians the right ot use terror, ye they use terror regardless. So what's the point of your argument?

Palestinian always retain the ability to justify their terror by saying some piece of land they want has not been returned. Just like Israel retains the ability to justify its war actions by saying the Palestinians haven't given them peace. In negotations these two interests are as equal and in effect cancel each other out. If both sides are actually interested in coming to a diplomatic solution, they should in theory not utilize these abilities since if one side plays its abilties both sides lose.

Or in simpler terms. If both sides agree to the spirit of Land for Peace. Israel won't use the claim that their is violence against giving land, and Palestinians won't use the claim that all the land hasn't been given to them as a claim to violence.

quote:

Well after the election of Netanyahu, the Palestinian economy totally collapsed thanks to his blockades etc. He also DOUBLED the amount of settlements in the occupied territories...can you blame the Palestinians for returning to violence after that?!

Yes, but I can also blame the Palestinians for returning to violence before that.

quote:

Well I dont think you can speak for every Israeli can you? What about the settlers? Do they want peace??

I don't have too. The Israeli government speaks for every Israeli, and the Israeli government has said numerous times over numerous Prime Ministers they want peace and are willing to give the Palestinians land in return.

I've never heard the Palestinian Prime Minister(s) even ennunciate the assurance that they are interested in giving Israel peace in exchange for land (by expressly stating they don't seek the destruction of Israel).

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