TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Is it cruel to stand outside and hold a sign?
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Is it cruel to stand outside and hold a sign?

This is a spinoff of the other thread:

Karim says its degrading and cruel. I thought degrading was used for such things as pornography and prostitution. I hardly think that paying a willing person money to hold a sign is "cruel" or "degrading".

If you don't want to do it then there are plenty of jobs that don't involve that.

how do you manage to care so much..about things?

quote:

Originally posted by Tb. how do you manage to care so much..about things?

I think Jay's common theme is WTF is this world coming to.
And i agree with him. Whats next? Is there now going to be a government funded lobby group for people that hold signs, or maybe even unionize them? Its about choice.

quote:

Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew I think Jay's common theme is WTF is this world coming to. And i agree with him. Whats next? Is there now going to be a government funded lobby group for people that hold signs, or maybe even unionize them? Its about choice.

You got it!

People are so weak these days... Seriously

which was the other thread???

"laws like this are ones that should be passed"

not as bad as this: (NWS)


http://www.lookatmebitch.com/gallery/ZX0122/1.jpg

LOL, and why does this need it's own thread?

Jay somehow keeps over looking my standpoint and puts words into my mouth. He thinks that alot of people are "willing" to do this job, as if it's a job that's desirable. They are willing, he's right, willing to settle, meaning they don't really have any freedom in their choice to begin with. They're willing to settle for the only available job out there, because they can't find better ones. Degrading means to lessen, and it's degrading to somebodies self worth because it's a shitty job that nobody really wants to do. Like Michael Bolton in office space (in referance to Peter's Guidance counsellor's question on what you'd do with a million dollars) said: "That questions bullshit to begin with, if everybody listened to her, there'd be no janitors because nobody would wanna clean up shit for a living if they had a million dollars". You think anybody really wants to hold up a sign outside as an employee? I personally feel bad for people that have to settle for that kind of job or face unemployment. I'm sure alot of other people feel bad for that person too. You can say you enjoy the freshair making the job worthwhile, but I doubt that thought stands for the majority.


Karim

Karim... have you ever worked fast-food? Standing outside and holding a sign is MUCH more desirable than standing around inside dealing with the stupid customers, retarded orders, and stressed out managers. You seem to be of the belief that no one really wants to do it, my experience says otherwise. When I was in Little Ceasar's they had to run a rotation because whoever was working would fight over who got to stand around and do nothing for their shift (oh, except hold that silly sign). Which is really what the sign-job is... free money. It isn't "settling", it's going outside, and getting paid to walk back and forth holding a sign. It's incredibly easy to do, and a lot more fun than any of the work going on inside, you can have competitions with other workers based on how many peopl honked at you, gave you the finger, waved, etc. etc.

Have you ever been paid to stand around waving a sign around? I doubt it, because anyone who HAS done it knows it's the jackpot of the part-time world.

quote:

Originally posted by karim LOL, and why does this need it's own thread? Jay somehow keeps over looking my standpoint and puts words into my mouth. He thinks that alot of people are "willing" to do this job, as if it's a job that's desirable. They are willing, he's right, willing to settle, meaning they don't really have any freedom in their choice to begin with. They're willing to settle for the only available job out there, because they can't find better ones. Degrading means to lessen, and it's degrading to somebodies self worth because it's a shitty job that nobody really wants to do. Like Michael Bolton in office space (in referance to Peter's Guidance counsellor's question on what you'd do with a million dollars) said: "That questions bullshit to begin with, if everybody listened to her, there'd be no janitors because nobody would wanna clean up shit for a living if they had a million dollars". You think anybody really wants to hold up a sign outside as an employee? I personally feel bad for people that have to settle for that kind of job or face unemployment. I'm sure alot of other people feel bad for that person too. You can say you enjoy the freshair making the job worthwhile, but I doubt that thought stands for the majority. Karim

Sp in your world everyone is a computer anaylist or rocket scientist? Perhaps some people are in that position for a reason.

Whether it's

A) because its a part time job to earn extra pocket money as a teenager. (usually the case)

B) they are too stupid to do anything else and cant hold a skilled job

C) It's their business or the family's business and want to generate more immediate sales.

Forcing somebody to do the work reminds me more of slave times and whippings than paying somebody money to hold a sign outside. Dude you really need to check your definitions a bit more and also join the real world. It sounds like you've been spoiled all your life and never worked part time during high school or college. If thats the case i feel sorry for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam Karim... have you ever worked fast-food? Standing outside and holding a sign is MUCH more desirable than standing around inside dealing with the stupid customers, retarded orders, and stressed out managers. You seem to be of the belief that no one really wants to do it, my experience says otherwise. When I was in Little Ceasar's they had to run a rotation because whoever was working would fight over who got to stand around and do nothing for their shift (oh, except hold that silly sign). Which is really what the sign-job is... free money. It isn't "settling", it's going outside, and getting paid to walk back and forth holding a sign. It's incredibly easy to do, and a lot more fun than any of the work going on inside, you can have competitions with other workers based on how many peopl honked at you, gave you the finger, waved, etc. etc. Have you ever been paid to stand around waving a sign around? I doubt it, because anyone who HAS done it knows it's the jackpot of the part-time world.

It IS fun. You know how many hot women wave and blow kisses? And when the occasional teenager yells something stupid or gives me a finger i laugh because its quite amusing. Most of them time people just wave. In fact the bus drivers all know me now too. Id much rather be outside than deal with snotty customers. Plus i know that it's bringing my cousin and i an average of 20% more immediate sales an an unmeasurable amount of exposure for future sales.

Cruel = forcing me to stand outside naked standing on hot coals.

could have it worse, theres a guy at king and bay that stands outside on the corner with his resume on a sign, hes been doing it for well over a year.

quote:

Originally posted by Pettiscool could have it worse, theres a guy at king and bay that stands outside on the corner with his resume on a sign, hes been doing it for well over a year.

Almost cried when I saw that dood the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Almost cried when I saw that dood the first time.

still hurts to walk by him, way worse then walking by a bum.... why doesnt he switch up his job finding techniques??!?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Sp in your world everyone is a computer anaylist or rocket scientist? Perhaps some people are in that position for a reason. Whether it's A) because its a part time job to earn extra pocket money as a teenager. (usually the case) B) they are too stupid to do anything else and cant hold a skilled job C) It's their business or the family's business and want to generate more immediate sales.

Computer analyst or Rocket Scientists? No, not that extreme. But I don't care who you are, anybody is far more qualified than the skill required to stand outside holding a sign. It's literally a job that a dog can do.

Answer to A: Get a better job that actually teaches you some type of skill that could lead to a better paying job down the road.

B: I think the majority of the people doing the job are capable of doing something better.

C: That's a different aspect of it all together. The hierarchy factor is taken out and you reap 100% of the benefits of such jobs rather than a small fraction. But still, most hire somebody to do the shit jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Dude you really need to check your definitions a bit more and also join the real world. It sounds like you've been spoiled all your life and never worked part time during high school or college. If thats the case i feel sorry for you.

Join the real world? You're one of the post whores on this board, and it's the internet, hardly the real world, and you take THIS too seriously. You're making assumptions about me based simply on a few posts that I wrote? Not only are these assumptions off topic, but they're not true. You can assume I'm spoiled and don't accept the real world, but lemme tell you something, you don't have to agree with the way the world works in order to accept and live in it. Disagreements spark discussion and usually bring about change. I simply don't agree with the very wide class gap we have in Canada and the USA, and I don't agree with some of the shit jobs that the bottom of the barrel citizens have to do.

This arguement is parallel, but in smaller scale, to the arguement on sweat shops, that you agree on the side of pro sweat shops activists based simply on the fact that they bring in money that otherwise wouldn't be there to these poorer countries. But lack of government control in wages and the countries willingness to settle for such wrong industries is what keeps the system the same, making the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and no changes being brought into place. This poor member of the world society will always be regarded as a source of relatively cheap labour and doing the jobs that nobody really wants to do. Just like the poorer classes in society are regarded as. And you can't argue that the value of money in China, Indonesia, wherever, is different to here, the 22 cents or so that they make an hour doesn't give them a fraction of the spending power that our minimum wage earners have here. And our minimum wage earners here, don't have a fraction of the spending power that the upper class has.

If you agree with the widening gaps, sooner or latar, 5-10 corporations will literally control the world by retaining the most money, and a democratic vote will have alot less power.


Karim

Im w/ Jax1 and Spam on this.


^^^ cant wait to read Jax1's reponse to the above. this thread is an interesting read.

Ok fine. I'd like to know what your solution is? Should we pay everyone the same wage? Sign holders get $50,000 a year lets say but so do doctors? Great so where's the incentive to get the extra education and effort to be a doctor? Whats your solution? Id really like to know.

BTW Marxism was tried and it failed.

Yes i say get in the real world. You think high school kids are more qualified for another job? give me a break. And YES there are some people in this world who are too stupid/lazy/unmotivated to get another job. Should they be highly rewarded for that?

Sure this is the internet but the responses are very real.

You think there is a huge wage gap in Canada and the USA? GET REAL! We have one of the most balanced economies in the world. You want wage gaps? Go to just about any country in the world and you will see huge mansions on a hill surrounded by shanties. Most countries barely even have a middle class.

Flash forward to North America where you are considered poor if you cant afford a trip to mexico once a year.

Let's put it this way. If you have adequate housing, food to eat and clothes to wear (not designer) then you are NOT poor. I remember seeing something about the CHUM christmas wish and they were talking about the mothers hardships and blah blah blah and i saw the kids in the background playing Xbox and sitting on a sofa.

NEWFLASH: POOR PEOPLE DONT OWN TVs, XBOXES, and SOFAS!

If you are that hard up, sell those things to feed your family, then we will talk about being poor.

Ive seen real poverty and it DOESNT EXIST IN CANADA. Oh sure we have homeless people but you know what? Most of them are runaways or have mental problems and thats a fact.

waving a sign? awsome job =) you meet so many people!

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ok fine. I'd like to know what your solution is? Should we pay everyone the same wage? Sign holders get $50,000 a year lets say but so do doctors? Great so where's the incentive to get the extra education and effort to be a doctor? Whats your solution? Id really like to know. BTW Marxism was tried and it failed. Yes i say get in the real world. You think high school kids are more qualified for another job? give me a break. And YES there are some people in this world who are too stupid/lazy/unmotivated to get another job. Should they be highly rewarded for that? Sure this is the internet but the responses are very real. You think there is a huge wage gap in Canada and the USA? GET REAL! We have one of the most balanced economies in the world. You want wage gaps? Go to just about any country in the world and you will see huge mansions on a hill surrounded by shanties. Most countries barely even have a middle class. Flash forward to North America where you are considered poor if you cant afford a trip to mexico once a year. Let's put it this way. If you have adequate housing, food to eat and clothes to wear (not designer) then you are NOT poor. I remember seeing something about the CHUM christmas wish and they were talking about the mothers hardships and blah blah blah and i saw the kids in the background playing Xbox and sitting on a sofa. NEWFLASH: POOR PEOPLE DONT OWN TVs, XBOXES, and SOFAS! If you are that hard up, sell those things to feed your family, then we will talk about being poor. Ive seen real poverty and it DOESNT EXIST IN CANADA. Oh sure we have homeless people but you know what? Most of them are runaways or have mental problems and thats a fact.

agreed. (suprisingly i've been agreeing with jayx a lot lately lol)

but karim, you gotta get real about this man. most highschool kids are not cabable of skilled jobs. i was a piano teacher in highschool, so yes, i needed a skill to be able to do that job, but that was a skill i learned on my on through years of hard work. i didn't apply to be a piano teacher, and they trained me how to do that job. in the real world, you don't always get jobs that are going to 'help' you other then financialy. as shitty as it is, you have the choice in canada to find different areas of employement, and there are places that are designed to help you find employement and you can find something suitable...hell, lots of ppl have to go through bullshit temp agencies to get something. (btw. minimum wage is going up 30cents in february, and is targeted to go up on an annual basis for sometime after the long restraint set by the conservative government).

seriously, i think you're going by stuff you learned in a highschool law class from basic teaching such as henry ford building an assembly line, paying his workers decent wages (essentially allowing them to buy his products allowing his company to thrive along with the well being of the employees)

in a perfect world this would work, but because of corporate greed, it aint going to change overnite. and because of which, if you want a good paying job with 'dignity' you're going to need education to learn 'skills' to set you apart from the highly uneducated class in north america. if this wasn't necessary, then as jayx stated, what would be the incentive to go through all the schooling to be a doctor if it'd be no higher a wage then a janitor.

If someone wants to hold a sign for money, let them. Each person sets their own price. If the price is right, they do it.

End of story.

Do you wanna know what my situation is?

I'm on OSAP, higher bracket margin meaning I get paid more through osap than most of the people that get it. My parents own their own company (a small country market) and they make enough to live. I work part time and go to school full time. Unfortunately I'm having difficulty paying all my bills and am currently seeking full time employement (hopefully through the school) as a fulltime student. I had to sell my turntables and mixer (check the buy and sell forum) to pay off bills. Am I spoiled and not in touch with the real world? Go ahead and say it making crazy assumptions. My priority is to finish school with honours, studying a double major at mcmaster (business and political science) and get my MBA.

So far, I'm on track with education and my grades are good. Employment is an issue cause I'm not willing to settle for a shitty job. That leaves me with few options other than working fast food and retail. My resume is pretty solid, alot of volunteer work and leadership positions as a camp counsellor. I'm only 20 years old and have a better resume than most people my age, yet I'm having difficulty finding a job that pays well. With 2 years of university under my belt, I figured I could get a better job than holding a sign outside of a store, unfortunately, that's one of the few jobs that are open. I worked at a call center when I was 18 years old, fresh outta highschool, and guess what? Half of my training group/team had university degrees and couldn't get a better job than an 18 year old. One guy had a degree in honours math and stats from waterloo. It's sad when you see people who worked so hard and paid so much for a "real" education and get shit on by the job market.

Countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK and even France have got it going on. Canada, unfortunately doesn't have the great job market that everybody thinks it has, and otherwise qualified people get shit on by crappy jobs. 5% of the worlds population owns 95% of the worlds wealth. If you guys think these 'well connected' people deserve this kind of power over the rest of the world, than I have to say that's sad. Capitalism breeds inequality, and soon, it's gonna be out of control.

The toughest challenge on the planet is to find a political ideology that works. Marxism has it's faults, liberal democracies have it's faults. Not in our lifetime will we ever live in a perfect world.

I am against the system cause I saw first hand, smart, qualified people get some of the most stressful, shittiest jobs I've ever seen (working at a call center BITES) even though they paid big money and worked hard to get their degrees. Some say too many people have university educations these days and it deflates their value, this sadly is true where it shouldn't be. With so many educated people, Canada should be a leader in the world economy, but how much power we're allowed to have is limited by greater powers that control the economy such as the banks and big player corporations. It shoudln't be like this, unfortunately it is.

<--- BTW, I'm drunk right now
Karim

Hmmm well it sounds like you are in the same situation as everyone else. So tell me when the family made you work (probably for free or a low wage) at the store or when you hire somebody and pay them a low wage are you being degraded or degrading others?

As for your situation. Its a competitive world out there. If you are good at what you do, you have experience, and you keep up your efforts then eventually you will find work. By the way, dont expect to be making a crazy salary at whatever you do right away because good pay also comes with EXPERIENCE.

Just imagine if you lived in most countries where you probably wouldnt have been able to get a degree much less have the government finance part of it. You think Europe has such a great economy? Sure. Thats why they are just coming out of a recession (canada avoided recession btw). Thats why their jobless rate is higher than ours. Thats why their cost of living is way beyond ours. You know what? ive seen the houses that people live in in europe. They are small, have no yards and very old. You know what? They cost more than a huge house does here!

I slag canada a lot for our social ineptness but economically we are doing too bad right now(unless the government makes us bankrupt).

So guess what? I dont feel sorry for you and i dont feel sorry for guys holding signs. If you cant find what you call "suitable work" then what are you going to do?

BTW are you still in school? If so exactly what kind of job or what kind of pay do you expect for part time work without a degree?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 As for your situation. Its a competitive world out there. If you are good at what you do, you have experience, and you keep up your efforts then eventually you will find work. By the way, dont expect to be making a crazy salary at whatever you do right away because good pay also comes with EXPERIENCE. Just imagine if you lived in most countries where you probably wouldnt have been able to get a degree much less have the government finance part of it. You think Europe has such a great economy? Sure. Thats why they are just coming out of a recession (canada avoided recession btw). Thats why their jobless rate is higher than ours. Thats why their cost of living is way beyond ours. You know what? ive seen the houses that people live in in europe. They are small, have no yards and very old. You know what? They cost more than a huge house does here!

My point is, with so many educated and qualified people getting shit jobs, Canada is not benefiting as much as other countries. The government has been trying to improve the literacy rate in Canada for quite some time, and we are ranked as one of the "smartest" nations in the world. If you look at the others that made the list (and this does not include the USA, they were lower than Canada), the living conditions are higher than we have it here. In Sweden, Germany, and a few others, they genuinely have better lives than we do, because their lower class makes more money. They're society is considered better off than ours. It shouldn't be like this, Canada should be better than it is. And our government policies don't help as much as they should.

We have no niche in the world economy anymore, we are not a major player in the Oil markets, and our cattle industry got shit on by mad cow. Lumber and what not is not as big as it was. How did we avoid a recession if we lost every stronghold we had on a world market to other nations? Some analysts say that fresh water could be one of our biggest exports. Why are we still depending on natural resources?! How are we not a leader in any service in the world? With more government involvement in promoting certain sectors, we could be the leader in the Tech sector, because we definately have the potential brain power for it. Unfortunately, our tech sector fucked up and crapped out of the world markets (Nortel). How many bluechip companies are Canadian? Countries like Japan, Germany, even Sweden have their mega corporations that we don't have. Japan has Sony, honda, etc. , Germany has Mercedes Benz, and BMW, and Sweden has Ikea just to name a few. The problem with Canada, is that we are over run by a foreign influence. We're letting other, foreign super corporations take over our country, improving their profits and syphoning money out of here to their foreign head offices. We don't export anything substantial to the world anymore. Every "large" company is going bankrupt in canada now (all the steel factories in hamilton are running into trouble, some foreign investors just bought out Stelco), and some foreign companies are pulling out, Ford in Oakville is taking a hit. The government needs to get involved in creating more highprofile jobs in various sectors in Canada, and promoting sector growth in order to better the living conditions of our country. More of the worlds money should be coming to us. In turn, the job market should be better than it is.

Even in Sweden, or Germany you could probably find some people willing to settle for holding a sign outside of a store, but the pool to choose from is alot smaller. Also you can't judge european house sizes on their personal wealth because Europe is far more Urban than Canada, and even small houses are valued high.


Karim

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.