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anti americans?

So i was looking at the "Bush speakes 3 DAYS AFTER and only 35 Million given...woooowww....." thread and was thinking... wtf! hehe... seriously, an american starts the thread, critizising its governemnt, then quite many americans start to accuse the world for beeing anti american and only critizing the US for everything... i really cant remember that any non american in that thread was that sceptic, most people agreed that this was only the beginning, then the competition started on who is giving most, which is another story anyway, the funny thing is that i dont think the swedish media, nor the canadian media ever critized the US more than they did with any other governemtn, ie they only mentioned that they had been critized... which they did with many countries, not only the US...

pretty much every governemnt it seems has been critized for doing too little too slow... guess they are catching up now tho...

then apperntly according to this new york times aricle the muslims in indonesia are praysing america and critizising the muslims countries for doing to litle:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/07/i...?pagewanted=all

so the moral of this story is, stop saying that everyone is anti american all the time, it gets annoying!

i hate it when you anti-americans always try and justify your anti-americanism.

yep id say smokeape is gonna like this one..

I believe it started with the UN guy with his remarks on the first day that while seemingly general were really aimed at the US specifically based on some of the figures he gave.

You do have to admit that Americans just can't win. Try to help someone and there is an agenda, don't help and you are ruthless, don't help enough and you are cheap, help with force and you are a brutal occupyer. People tend to often point out that the US is trying to take over the world with its military stationed all over the globe but they don't complain when these same forces stationed all over the globe are in a position to quickly respond to tradgedies such as this. Just can't win.

nope you cant win but i guess you will keep on trying huh...

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil I believe it started with the UN guy with his remarks on the first day that while seemingly general were really aimed at the US specifically based on some of the figures he gave. You do have to admit that Americans just can't win. Try to help someone and there is an agenda, don't help and you are ruthless, don't help enough and you are cheap, help with force and you are a brutal occupyer. People tend to often point out that the US is trying to take over the world with its military stationed all over the globe but they don't complain when these same forces stationed all over the globe are in a position to quickly respond to tradgedies such as this. Just can't win.

well no one is perfect, and i do agree that sometime you take a lot of shit that you shouldnt get. Many times the critizism is valid, but its like you cant critisize america without beeing anti american?

for some things you are just beggin for beeing hated tho like going against the UN and most people in the rest of the world and invading another country on false claims...

quote:

Originally posted by zig nope you cant win but i guess you will keep on trying huh...

yup. thats what we do

quote:

Originally posted by zig yep id say smokeape is gonna like this one..

Yep, and you ain't lying. I think the only aid those poor son-of-a-bitches need is a few nukes to level the rest of their sorry ass ghetto society. C'mon now, most of the places wiped out by the tsunami was good riddance...
Hey, where's Cyrus? Give me an amen, bud.


[[[smoke]]]

then there is people like smokeape, if you only meet someone like him, it would probably make sense to be anti american

NOw there's a fact. The other fact is they're still scooping the ignorant fools off of beaches with front end loaders who thought they would never deal with a typhoon or tsunami in their lifetimes. I don't pity fools living in tin huts down by the seashore in known disaster zones and really don't pity other fools living in flood plains, on earthquake faults, or in volcanic lava flow areas either.



[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil You do have to admit that Americans just can't win. Try to help someone and there is an agenda, don't help and you are ruthless, don't help enough and you are cheap, help with force and you are a brutal occupyer. People tend to often point out that the US is trying to take over the world with its military stationed all over the globe but they don't complain when these same forces stationed all over the globe are in a position to quickly respond to tradgedies such as this. Just can't win.

It's just resentment towards the global super-power. Just like everyone hates the rich kid but they all wish they were him.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew well no one is perfect, and i do agree that sometime you take a lot of shit that you shouldnt get. Many times the critizism is valid, but its like you cant critisize america without beeing anti american? for some things you are just beggin for beeing hated tho like going against the UN and most people in the rest of the world and invading another country on false claims...

Oh not saying the US is perfect and critisizing is fine when it is valid and not just spurred up because we are the US.

I think people too often have this great standard that we seem forced to uphold by carrying the US flag that we have to rush to everyone's aid, that we are allowed to do no wrong, that we have to always be equal and moderators with every country, we are supposed to donate more than everyone, etc. Sure some things come with being a superpower, and I think often people watch us much too closely because we are so visable.

For example the US war in Iraq, a good number of people have died as a result of the war and we all hear about it all the time. However I read the other day that well over 200,000,000 people have died as a result of direct or indirect action of a war in the world since 1990 and the world has heard very little of those even though they dwarf what has happened in Iraq.

I think the criticisms in Iraq are valid. Hell any criticism is valid if you provide logical reasoning hehind the criticism and facts if available.

I do think posts bitching about contributions are illogical and really help nothing. Something is better than nothing. Someone the other day on tv was doing some US bitching about how we spent $16 billion in florida and $350million in this disaster so far (not including troops and equip). Well of course we spent more here, people have insurance claims, our home prices average $500,000+ each, they aren't very modest homes like those destroyed in this latest diaster, and we had to cover our own disaster from our own pockets, not the help of the entire world.

I like BadBad from the getgo.

Americans ain't leaving Iraq good, bad, or ugly. Seems the world of terrorists want to fight us there and they're losing despite reports to the contrary.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Oh not saying the US is perfect and critisizing is fine when it is valid and not just spurred up because we are the US. I think people too often have this great standard that we seem forced to uphold by carrying the US flag that we have to rush to everyone's aid, that we are allowed to do no wrong, that we have to always be equal and moderators with every country, we are supposed to donate more than everyone, etc. Sure some things come with being a superpower, and I think often people watch us much too closely because we are so visable.

true, since you are the biggest you also get the most attention, kinda natural. One more thing that has to do with it i think is that many major newsources are from the US and therefore also a lot of news comming from there to the rest of the world - the world get to know what you do wrong.

If something bad happen with the swdish governemtn, no one cares or ever hears about it...

but that said you do have to take a certain responislbity as a superpower (if you want to be a respected superpower that is). You dont have to give more per captita than anyone else, but when you give like 5% of what other countries does then the critique is valid.

quote:

For example the US war in Iraq, a good number of people have died as a result of the war and we all hear about it all the time. However I read the other day that well over 200,000,000 people have died as a result of direct or indirect action of a war in the world since 1990 and the world has heard very little of those even though they dwarf what has happened in Iraq.

hmm, can you get a source for that 200 millions!? doesnt seem very likely :S cause that would be a death rate at something similair with that of WWII...

quote:

I think the criticisms in Iraq are valid. Hell any criticism is valid if you provide logical reasoning hehind the criticism and facts if available.

totally agree.

quote:

I do think posts bitching about contributions are illogical and really help nothing. Something is better than nothing. Someone the other day on tv was doing some US bitching about how we spent $16 billion in florida and $350million in this disaster so far (not including troops and equip). Well of course we spent more here, people have insurance claims, our home prices average $500,000+ each, they aren't very modest homes like those destroyed in this latest diaster, and we had to cover our own disaster from our own pockets, not the help of the entire world.

something is better than a litle i agree, however more is better than a litle

and yes it makes sense that florida got more money.

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape I like BadBad from the getgo. Americans ain't leaving Iraq good, bad, or ugly. Seems the world of terrorists want to fight us there and they're losing despite reports to the contrary. [[[smoke]]]

If we're serious about the war on terrorism the first thing out goverment should so is stop supporting it. The US has a long history of state sponsored terrorism.

Re: anti americans?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/07/i...?pagewanted=all

do you think you can post the article? I can't read it without a login. thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z If we're serious about the war on terrorism the first thing out goverment should so is stop supporting it. The US has a long history of state sponsored terrorism.

well said

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Try to help someone and there is an agenda, don't help and you are ruthless, don't help enough and you are cheap, help with force and you are a brutal occupyer.

The rest of the world doesnt see us "helping" them and for very good reasons. The US provided Sadaam with chemical wepons/means for making them with he used to gas the Kurds. He came to power with US support.

Re: Re: anti americans?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z do you think you can post the article? I can't read it without a login. thanks.

Once-Critical Indonesians Are Grateful to U.S. for Aid
By RAYMOND BONNER

Published: January 7, 2005

JAKARTA, Indonesia, Jan. 6 - The United States military's huge relief effort for tsunami victims in South Asia is producing something of a political upheaval here, in the world's most populous Muslim country: America is being praised, even by some of its harshest critics, while Arab countries are being questioned.

"I am getting messages from friends saying, 'Why have the Muslim countries been so slow and stingy?' " said Goenawan Mohamad, one of the country's leading intellectuals.

Washington's campaign against terrorism, its staunch support of Israel and its occupation of Iraq have been widely interpreted by Indonesians as a war on Islam, and the Bush administration's various efforts to influence public opinion have failed to counter that impression. The American military came in for particular criticism in the Muslim world, after the shocking and continuing revelations of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere.

All of that contributed to a sharp decline in America's image here in the years after Sept. 11, 2001, when Indonesians generally expressed solidarity with the United States. Before the tsunami struck, only some 15 percent of Indonesians had a favorable view of the United States, down from around 65 percent a few years ago.

Now, though, Indonesians are comparing the small amounts that have been offered by Arab countries with the hundreds of millions offered by the United States, Australia, Europe, Japan and China, said Mr. Mohamad, who like most Indonesians opposed the American invasion of Iraq.

A few days ago Koran Tempo, one of the country's major daily newspapers, published a reader's letter asking various radical Islamic organizations here why they were not helping in Aceh. "Don't only work through violence," the writer said. "Use your money to help, not just to buy equipment to hurt people."

The best news for Washington, though, may be no news: the absence of criticism among radical Islamic groups, even of the presence of American soldiers on Indonesian soil. A few weeks ago the mere suggestion of such a thing would have provoked demonstrations.

"That's a surprise, really," Dino Djalal, a spokesman for President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, said about the silence of the radicals.

American soldiers delivering aid have been featured on the front pages of newspapers and on television, in praise not condemnation. But the American honeymoon may prove short, and some cautionary notes were sounded Thursday.

The American troops have shown themselves to be "very sweet and humane," wrote Irfan Junaidi, a columnist in Republika, an Islamic newspaper. "There's nothing wrong with that," he continued, but then asked whether this picture of American humanitarianism bore any relation to American foreign policy, especially in Iraq.

For the moment, Indonesia's international image has gained from the attention brought in the aftermath of the destruction. Since the terrorist attack on Bali nightclubs in October 2002, the United States, Australia and other countries have issued travel advisories warning their citizens about terrorist dangers here. The warnings have hurt the country economically, keeping tourists away in great numbers.

Just three weeks ago, Australia issued one of the most alarming travel warnings, saying it had specific intelligence that terrorists were planning attacks over the Christmas period. It urged its citizens here to leave, and Qantas took the warning so seriously that its airline crews stopped spending the night in Jakarta hotels.

The Australian warning specifically mentioned the Hilton Hotel as a place of a possible attack.

Yet on Thursday, all of the world leaders who have arrived here for the relief effort - Secretary of State Colin L. Powell; Prime Ministers John Howard of Australia, Wen Jiabao of China and Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; Foreign Secretary Jack Straw of Britain; Secretary General Kofi Annan of the United Nations; the president of the World Bank, James D. Wolfensohn; and a score of aides, ambassadors and senior officials - were gathered in a conference center here in the shadows of the Hilton.

Indonesians are not basically anti-American, Mr. Mohamad said. Indeed, while the Islamic extremists can be loud and violent, they account for only a tiny minority, and most Indonesians practice a moderate strain of Islam.

But whether the good feelings generated by America's relief effort will be enough to overcome the resentment built up over the last several years is a good question, Mr. Mohamad said. "The criticism will remain, but the sting will be less," he suggested.

It has helped that President Bush brought out his father and former President Bill Clinton to raise money for the relief effort, Mr. Mohamad said. "It deflects attention from Bush Jr., who is not the most popular person in the world."

Rachmat Witolear, a longtime force in one of the country's largest political parties, Golkar, and the current environment minister, agreed that the relief assistance would improve America's standing here. But how much will depend on how President Bush acts, he said.

"It's a good initiative," Mr. Witolear said. "But still he has to be careful because the prevailing view of him being arrogant is still there."

The views about the United States assistance are not all positive. Some Indonesians are still smarting over the fact that the Bush administration was slow to respond and at first offered only $15 million. It was only after being criticized by the United Nations, and after other countries had come forth with large pledges, that the United States increased its aid to $350 million, said Nasrul Haq, chairman of the student body at Padjajaran University in Bandung.

"It looks like they are concerned about their ego, that the United States as a superpower doesn't want anyone to beat them," he said in a telephone interview.

Still, as Mr. Mohamad said, on the whole the feeling is good. "I hope it will last," he added.

just shows how lttle it takes to get americans annoyed..just mention the word anti.......

Blah, blah, blah, Ireland sucks and their GNP is idiocy, America is a superpower, folks are dying everyday. Nothing new.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape Blah, blah, blah, Ireland sucks and their GNP is idiocy, America is a superpower, folks are dying everyday. Nothing new. [[[smoke]]]

now thats where you walked into a problem with your post..ireland is now the fastest growing economy in the EU..and has been at least overall the fastest growing economy in europe for the last ten years..we now come second in the EU,in terms of wealth creation,after Luxemburg,which mainly relies on banking

blah blllah bllah

quote:

Originally posted by zig now thats where you walked into a problem with your post..ireland is now the fastest growing economy in the EU..and has been at least overall the fastest growing economy in europe for the last ten years..we now come second in the EU,in terms of wealth creation,after Luxemburg,which mainly relies on banking blah blllah bllah

Hmmm, sounds good, maybe we should take over control of Ireland again?! (Would certainly solve the problem of reunification anyway! )

it was late september 2001, and im in kentucky. i see rolling down the street a beat-up pick-up truck from the 70's, and spray-painted all over it are NUKE bin-laden, NUKE afghanistan, NUKE Irak, and NUKE all SOB's against USA, and then in the bed is a confederate flag waving around, and a guy without a shirt driving.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Hmmm, sounds good, maybe we should take over control of Ireland again?! (Would certainly solve the problem of reunification anyway! )

we will gladly let you keep that economic basket case called Northern Ireland

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