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Israel's Air-Force pilots say why they could not obey illegal orders

VERY interesting read. Those are some brave pilots.



'We're air force pilots, not mafia. We don't take revenge'

Israel's F-16 and Black Hawk refuseniks say why they could not obey illegal orders and kill innocent Palestinians

For two months, a rebel group of Israeli Black Hawk helicopter and F-16 fighter pilots has been denounced as traitors for saying they will no longer bomb Palestinian cities.

Until now they have maintained a resolute silence on their motives, preferring to limit their criticism of Ariel Sharon's war to a letter signed by 27 reserve and active duty pilots refusing to carry out what they described as illegal orders, and denouncing the occupation as eating at the moral fabric of Israel.

Now, having been thrown out of the air force, they are talking publicly about what brought members of the most revered branch of the Israeli military to make an unprecedented challenge to the handling of the conflict with the Palestinians.




Full Story

Re: Israel's Air-Force pilots say why they could not obey illegal orders

quote:

Originally posted by habsfan VERY interesting read. Those are some brave pilots. 'We're air force pilots, not mafia. We don't take revenge' Israel's F-16 and Black Hawk refuseniks say why they could not obey illegal orders and kill innocent Palestinians For two months, a rebel group of Israeli Black Hawk helicopter and F-16 fighter pilots has been denounced as traitors for saying they will no longer bomb Palestinian cities. Until now they have maintained a resolute silence on their motives, preferring to limit their criticism of Ariel Sharon's war to a letter signed by 27 reserve and active duty pilots refusing to carry out what they described as illegal orders, and denouncing the occupation as eating at the moral fabric of Israel. Now, having been thrown out of the air force, they are talking publicly about what brought members of the most revered branch of the Israeli military to make an unprecedented challenge to the handling of the conflict with the Palestinians. Full Story

Kudos to them!!!




An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind!

In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it cost nothing to be a patriot.

Mark Twain

nice quote!

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, For then it cost nothing to be a patriot. Mark Twain

Had the British won, our founding fathers would all have been convicted of high treason!


I sincerely doubt that they fought for our independence just so that the later generations could grow to be subservient.

I wonder, had the tables been turned, if the same decision would have been made...

It's good to hear. Really good to hear. This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen to bridge the gap between the two parties. But in the current climate it is possible that it could be used to widen the gap with headlines or public opinion says things like "even some israeli pilots won't continue the genocide".

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I wonder, had the tables been turned, if the same decision would have been made...

And there you go implying that arabs could be inherantly evil

Quite an old story but...

interesting

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I wonder, had the tables been turned, if the same decision would have been made...

That is indeed an interesting point to make..but you will never find out as we are all aware that Palastine does not possess F-16 fighter jets Blackhawk helicopters or any of the arrey of weaponry at isreals disposal nor do they recieve billions of dollars yearly from the US to pursue further military objectives.

But what i find most interesting from your comment..and it got me thinking..imagine the scenario if Palestine had an equal strength military to the Isrealis..i would imagine that would make Isreali arrogence just a little bit more tolerable as their citizens would also witness whole towns being layed to waste and Palestinians occupying some of their territories.

As regards the pilots..i wonder how easy they have found it outside of the military..as regards getting jobs and general hostility towards them..

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King And there you go implying that arabs could be inherantly evil

Actually I wasn't implying anything; that would your own biasing doing the assuming there...

It was, in fact, a simple question.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Actually I wasn't implying anything; that would your own biasing doing the assuming there... It was, in fact, a simple question.

Stop with the bullshit explanation. Your question was simple and implied.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Stop with the bullshit explanation. Your question was simple and implied.

Only by you...
I have no personal feelings about the subject at all; I was simply playing devil's advocate.
We all know what your feelings are...
/obvious

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Stop with the bullshit explanation. Your question was simple and implied.

I didnt get that impression either..as you can see from my post..if anything it made me think..i wouldnt get to upset about it..i dont think its what he implied it was purely a theorethical response..and it worked for me anyway...

This arab - jew (sorted alphabeticly so not to offend anyone....) stuff is getting a bit sad. Just now its got to the point where someone can even voice an opion with out the "debate" quickly turning to personal attacks.

I say the guys who did this should be saluted for thinking about what they were doing, making a stand, and creating an issue.

It is a posative thing because it's the right thing to do. But as someone said you don't see anything similar from the other side. However I think your feeling of security needs to get to a certain level before you can consider things other than your own personal security and that of your family.

Re: nice quote!

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Had the British won, our founding fathers would all have been convicted of high treason! I sincerely doubt that they fought for our independence just so that the later generations could grow to be subservient.

"Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists"
George W Bush

quote:

Originally posted by Our founding fathers IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world....

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