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Record Wear Does Not Occur Below 2.25g?

Found an interesting article as I'm in the market for some new carts right now...

quote:

It is commonly believed that increasing a pickup's tracking force causes a corresponding increase in the rate of record wear. This is not so. It's not tracking force that matters, it's contact pressure, and because vinyl has a certain amount of elasticity, increasing the tracking force causes the stylus to sink farther into the vinyl, thus increasing contact-surface area. The pressure increases much less rapidly than force. Yes, there is a point where excessive force will exceed the vinyl's elastic limit, causing permanent groove indenting, but with most elliptical styli, this apparently doesn't happen until tracking force exceeds about 2.25gm. The thing that does the most damage to record grooves is cartridge mistracking. When a stylus is simply incapable of following the groove modulations, it exerts contact pressures hundreds of times higher than when tracking an unmodulated groove. The fact that a lousy cartridge may require 5gm of force to eliminate most mistracking is what gave rise to the idea that it was the high tracking force that ruined discs. It is, rather, the stylus's inability to stay with the grooves at any reasonable force that does the damage. With a cartridge that tracks fairly cleanly at up to 2gm, you should expect several hundred plays before a highly modulated disc is ready for the dustbin. And when is a disc "worn out" anyway? Any heavily modulated LP will lose some audible cleanness with the first play on even the best and most carefully adjusted record player (footnote 11), but the amount of deterioration is much less on the second play, and diminishes almost exponentially thereafter. By the time it nears the end of its life, there is no audible sonic change from one play to the next, so it is impossible to say when it is "worn out." It may sound pretty sad, but 50 more plays probably won't make it sound much worse. For this reason, few discs ever get discarded for wear; they just get played less and less often (footnote 12), as the joy of the music becomes gradually more tempered by the irritation of the sound. (A caveat for buyers of used records.)

What do you guys think of this?

Hmmm very interesting. Where did u get this btw?

Interesting.

I have my weights set to 3.. so .75 higher than when wear starts. Hmm I just do it to be extra sure the needle won't skip, as I have had very few time when it does. I may try knocking it down to 2.25 though. I am more concerned with skipping than I am record wear.

Also curious to know where you got this?

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Originally posted by J:\Digital Interesting. I have my weights set to 3.. so .75 higher than when wear starts. Hmm I just do it to be extra sure the needle won't skip, as I have had very few time when it does. I may try knocking it down to 2.25 though. I am more concerned with skipping than I am record wear. Also curious to know where you got this?

Yea, I've got my Whitelables set at 3 as well. I'm heisitant to move it back to the 2 neighborhood b/c then I tend to get more skips (not alot, but still aggravating) when cueing. IMO there is nothing more annoying than when you cue the record up only to release it and find that it's jumped the groove.

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Originally posted by Wraith Yea, I've got my Whitelables set at 3 as well. I'm heisitant to move it back to the 2 neighborhood b/c then I tend to get more skips (not alot, but still aggravating) when cueing. IMO there is nothing more annoying than when you cue the record up only to release it and find that it's jumped the groove.

I know that feeling man.. my needles are actually pretty good with skip resistance (Shure M35). I only have it up at 3 to pretty much garuntee that I don't get CUE skippage.. And when I do, it usually a bad pressing or slightly warped record to blame.

source: http://stereophile.com/reference/170/index7.html

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Originally posted by J:\Digital I know that feeling man.. my needles are actually pretty good with skip resistance (Shure M35). I only have it up at 3 to pretty much garuntee that I don't get CUE skippage.. And when I do, it usually a bad pressing or slightly warped record to blame.

I have my M35x set to 2.25 now, from 2.5. So far, no skipping
Do the Whitelabels skip @ 2-2.25?

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Originally posted by Tegu Do the Whitelabels skip @ 2-2.25?

Hardly at all, but I like being on the safe side. I'll take an increase in record wear as opposed to a botched mix if the needle decides to jump out of the poorly cut groove.

Tegu, where did you find that article??

EDIT: N/M.. i see the link.

I've got my whitelabels set on about 2 and they work fine. I can cue like crazy.

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Originally posted by Tegu Do the Whitelabels skip @ 2-2.25?

Not at all. I have mine set at 2 and haven't had any problems with skipping/cueing/backspinning or the sound quality.

cool

just turned my M35X all the way down to 2g and still no skip problems

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Originally posted by Tegu source: http://stereophile.com/reference/170/index7.html I have my M35x set to 2.25 now, from 2.5. So far, no skipping Do the Whitelabels skip @ 2-2.25?

I have set mine to 1.5 when I only listen to vinyls and max 2.0 when I spin. They rarely skip at 2.0

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Originally posted by Nou Wouldnt this number be relative to the weight of the cart and different to each cart? Tracking force is going to be different with each cart (why you have calibrate to 0 weight) if you have a cart that weighs 1.5 grams and you have 2.25 added to the back then its total is 3.75, now say you have a 1.25 gram cart... 3.50 grams... etc etc etc...

...when you calibrate to 0 grams for the cart + stylus and then add 2.25g to that.. there will be 2.25g downforce, regardless of what cart you use. hence the point of the counter balance. however, height adjustments will have an effect, because higher tonearm settings can allow more record wear.

razzi.

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Originally posted by razzi ...when you calibrate to 0 grams for the cart + stylus and then add 2.25g to that.. there will be 2.25g downforce, regardless of what cart you use. hence the point of the counter balance. however, height adjustments will have an effect, because higher tonearm settings can allow more record wear. razzi.

exactly

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Originally posted by nrjizer I've got my whitelabels set on about 2 and they work fine. I can cue like crazy.

+1

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Originally posted by razzi ...when you calibrate to 0 grams for the cart + stylus and then add 2.25g to that.. there will be 2.25g downforce, regardless of what cart you use. hence the point of the counter balance. however, height adjustments will have an effect, because higher tonearm settings can allow more record wear. razzi.

i have my technics m5gs at 1 on the tonearm height and my shure whitelabels at 2... should that be okay as far as record wear goes?

-keith

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Originally posted by Nou the carts weight and the way its setup does play a factor tho, its not as if the cart is weightless. Just seems weird that someone can globally say "less than 2.25 grams will not caz record wear."

That is the whole point, if you calibrate it correctly the weight of the cart really is effectivly zero. You balance it with the cart, then you add 2.5 g or whatever, that it the amount of downforce. If you don't believe me you can actually get a balance for your turntable which should accuratly measure the amount of downforce. My dad has one of these and I was surprised how accurate the technics counter weight markings ended up being (assuming you are not reversing it).

Record ware will occur whenever the stylus is touching the vinyl, no matter what weight it is set at. It is a fact of life. Obviously, the less weight you put on it, the less ware will occur.

Think about it: diamond vs. vinyl -- the hardest substance known to man vs. a weak plastic...it is going to do some damage.

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Originally posted by beema Record ware will occur whenever the stylus is touching the vinyl, no matter what weight it is set at. It is a fact of life. Obviously, the less weight you put on it, the less ware will occur. Think about it: diamond vs. vinyl -- the hardest substance known to man vs. a weak plastic...it is going to do some damage.

I think you missed the point of the article, about vinyl having some elasticity to it.

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Originally posted by `pr0digy I think you missed the point of the article, about vinyl having some elasticity to it.

I think the article is a heap of shit. It is talking about Tracking Force, ie, that little knob to the right of the tonearm. Ok, so if your tracking force is set at 2.5 or below, it doesn't add wear to the vinyl. Who gives a shit, the pressure from the stylus that comes from the weight on the tonearm adds plenty of wear regardless.

Just take care of your vinyl w/ proper storage and clean them now and then and it'll last you longer. Don't worry about f'ing tracking force causing wear. If you are that concerned about a vinyl, don't play it!

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Originally posted by beema clean them now and then and it'll last you longer.

does gruvglide really work?

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Originally posted by beema I think the article is a heap of shit. It is talking about Tracking Force, ie, that little knob to the right of the tonearm. Ok, so if your tracking force is set at 2.5 or below, it doesn't add wear to the vinyl. Who gives a shit, the pressure from the stylus that comes from the weight on the tonearm adds plenty of wear regardless.

Actually that is anti-skate. Tracking force is the downward force of the stylus onto the record. Every material has a region (of its stress/strain curve) where it deforms elastically and will return to its original shape once the force is removed. While a diamond is harder than vinyl, we are talking about pretty small forces (on the other hand it is over an extremely small area). While I am not completely convinced by the article I would not dismiss it too quickly as it brings up some interesting points.

i think we can all agree that the less tracking force the better

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Originally posted by Tegu does gruvglide really work?

Works for me, seems much better than lighter fliud at removing static.

do you really think it prolongs record life, though?

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