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-- FREQUENCIES FOR KICK,SUB BASS,BASS,MID BASS & HIGH BASS

FREQUENCIES FOR KICK,SUB BASS,BASS,MID BASS & HIGH BASS

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with setting out some rough guidelines to which frequencies and FX I should use for the following elements in my latest track.

KICK - Standard 4/4 Beat

SUB BASS - Off Beat

BASS - Rollin' Octavin'

MID BASS - Rollin'

HIGH BASS - Rollin'

Hope someone can help, even if it is what frequencies you use for each of these elements in your tracks???

I usually cut everything above 250 or 200 Hz on my subbass.

The rest mostly depends on what key your track is made in.

I don't fully understand your question, but hopefully this might help:

Kick: It's rare I've seen a kick centred at less than 49 Hz, and an upper limit of perhaps 65 Hz when it comes to dance music. Shape your kick (i.e. by boosting a frequency to accent it or cutting one to make another stand out more) depending on the root, or any other common note used in your track. For example, you might take a kick sample centered at close to 49 Hz and perhaps center it exactly to this frequency if needed by boosting it a little here if your bass line, or any other melodic part in your track plays a G. You can find more such frequency-note relationships here: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html

Bass: In dance music, this could range from 33 Hz to 65 Hz, perhaps even a little higher in certain tracks. Just be careful not to bunch up the same frequency with the kick too much.

Subbass: Personally I define this as the frequencies between 16 Hz and 33 Hz, but only becuase that makes a perfect octave. Since the human ear can only hear down to about 20 Hz, and the largest subwoofers will have trouble dropping down even that low, perhaps consider 25 Hz as the lowest point. At least you usually never want to boost anything below this.

Mid bass and high bass are just arbitrary terms used to distinguish from any similar term like 'low bass'. Personally, I define low bass as being below perhaps 44 Hz, mid bass to about 87 Hz, and high bass to perhaps 131 Hz.

None of these are technically correct though. It all depends on the particular track and how you look at it.

Thanks for the feedback.

This is kinda what I was expecting. I've basically got a track with four different bass's playing, though I want to give them all room in the mix.

Think I'll have another play about tonight and post a sample.

quote:

Originally posted by ManTrance Thanks for the feedback. This is kinda what I was expecting. I've basically got a track with four different bass's playing, though I want to give them all room in the mix. Think I'll have another play about tonight and post a sample.

Alright, well the key here is a spectrum analyser. Often tutorials will tell you to just listen and do what sounds right and trust your ears etc., but this is of course stupid since a beginner wouldn't know what to listen for.

So, you need to get yourself a nice spectrum analyser such as the one provided in Sound Forge, and analyse the frequency make-up of each of the bass sounds and decide on the most suitable approach to make room for each.

You can post a sample and I can help you with this, but it may take me a few days to respond since my computer is down and I have to use an annoying work-around method to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis_AR Since the human ear can only hear down to about 20 Hz, and the largest subwoofers will have trouble dropping down even that low, perhaps consider 25 Hz as the lowest point. At least you usually never want to boost anything below this.

Many subwoofers do drop below 20Hz. For example the axiom EP600 (13 hz, 16 anechoic) and adire parthenon which can hit 6Hz with ease (ok ok- parthenon is not a regular sub, but still). I would give more examples but svs and hsu sites are down, I'm pretty sure they both have models that go below 15hz.

Even though we can't hear the musicality of the bass anymore below 20hz, you can still feel it for sure.

I would still cut the bass frequencies off around 20hz though, just to make the mix sound alittle bit cleaner. Frequencies below that are great for explosions and movie applications, or live orchestra, but I wouldn't say that have any purpose being in trance music.

quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis_AR I don't fully understand your question, but hopefully this might help: Kick: It's rare I've seen a kick centred at less than 49 Hz, and an upper limit of perhaps 65 Hz when it comes to dance music. Shape your kick (i.e. by boosting a frequency to accent it or cutting one to make another stand out more) depending on the root, or any other common note used in your track. For example, you might take a kick sample centered at close to 49 Hz and perhaps center it exactly to this frequency if needed by boosting it a little here if your bass line, or any other melodic part in your track plays a G. You can find more such frequency-note relationships here: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html Bass: In dance music, this could range from 33 Hz to 65 Hz, perhaps even a little higher in certain tracks. Just be careful not to bunch up the same frequency with the kick too much. Subbass: Personally I define this as the frequencies between 16 Hz and 33 Hz, but only becuase that makes a perfect octave. Since the human ear can only hear down to about 20 Hz, and the largest subwoofers will have trouble dropping down even that low, perhaps consider 25 Hz as the lowest point. At least you usually never want to boost anything below this. Mid bass and high bass are just arbitrary terms used to distinguish from any similar term like 'low bass'. Personally, I define low bass as being below perhaps 44 Hz, mid bass to about 87 Hz, and high bass to perhaps 131 Hz. None of these are technically correct though. It all depends on the particular track and how you look at it.

your freqs are much, much too low. a deep bass is basically anything under ~90Hz, the mids of your bass will usually sit around 110-150, and higher parts will center around 250. Harmonic elements of your bass might cast their rays up to 1000, 1500Hz, and much higher if you have overtone rich or noisy basses.

i have heared that you must cut everything round 50hz.. becouse you cant hear them well and it's only clipping your tune.

quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis_AR I don't fully understand your question, but hopefully this might help: Kick: It's rare I've seen a kick centred at less than 49 Hz, and an upper limit of perhaps 65 Hz when it comes to dance music. Shape your kick (i.e. by boosting a frequency to accent it or cutting one to make another stand out more) depending on the root, or any other common note used in your track. For example, you might take a kick sample centered at close to 49 Hz and perhaps center it exactly to this frequency if needed by boosting it a little here if your bass line, or any other melodic part in your track plays a G. You can find more such frequency-note relationships here: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html Bass: In dance music, this could range from 33 Hz to 65 Hz, perhaps even a little higher in certain tracks. Just be careful not to bunch up the same frequency with the kick too much. Subbass: Personally I define this as the frequencies between 16 Hz and 33 Hz, but only becuase that makes a perfect octave. Since the human ear can only hear down to about 20 Hz, and the largest subwoofers will have trouble dropping down even that low, perhaps consider 25 Hz as the lowest point. At least you usually never want to boost anything below this. Mid bass and high bass are just arbitrary terms used to distinguish from any similar term like 'low bass'. Personally, I define low bass as being below perhaps 44 Hz, mid bass to about 87 Hz, and high bass to perhaps 131 Hz. None of these are technically correct though. It all depends on the particular track and how you look at it.

huh? are you serious? i read in some other topic you are specialised in mastering, well it must be some other music style then, because your freqs are all wrong, they are way too low!!

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huh? are you serious? i read in some other topic you are specialised in mastering, well it must be some other music style then, because your freqs are all wrong, they are way too low!!

I thought they seemed very low.

Im gunna download a spectral analyser and go from there. Might post some samples 2nite if Im not successful.

quote:

Originally posted by hardikaveri i have heared that you must cut everything round 50hz.. becouse you cant hear them well and it's only clipping your tune.

I would definately not cut 50 and below. You would be cutting out alot of the low end. If you have a decent sub, play around with cutting the frequencies.. you'll definately notice that your kick will loose it's power and the bassline will not sound as full.

I normaly cut from 35-40 and below anything below that you can really hear and for the most part it just rattles speakers. Believe it or not the bass you hear/feel for the most part is from 120-60. What is that guy talking about kicks at 60hz? That crazy most kicks 808/909 have all the presence from 130-80. I normaly LPF everything except for the kick and bass from 150-200hz they are really the only things that need to go that low...

woha man. 4 basslines?!?!?!?

why do many people think the more basslines the more pro the tune will end up?

thats wishfull and wrong thinking.

How about just making 1 bass ??? and if you EQ it good you can make it pumping and heavy, if not add 1 offbeat good sub.

4 is to much, it's not like you have endless of frequencies to use.

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Originally posted by Massive84 woha man. 4 basslines?!?!?!? why do many people think the more basslines the more pro the tune will end up? thats wishfull and wrong thinking. How about just making 1 bass ??? and if you EQ it good you can make it pumping and heavy, if not add 1 offbeat good sub. 4 is to much, it's not like you have endless of frequencies to use.

Well, before you start a project you should always first consider what u want from your track, some considerations require four basslines some don't... The above & beyond basslines for instance often have 4 basslines, thats what make their tracks really 'filled'... I dont like that, i like some gaps now and then which makes it cooler to master it (easier to create that pumping sound)... In my believes, its also important to not use high freq 'basses' if u want to create anthem-tracks, because its important to use those freqs for lots of reverb, lots of compression and such... There are many more examples for selecting basslines in comparison with what you want... Correct me if im wrong btw, im still kinda newbie...

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono Many subwoofers do drop below 20Hz. For example the axiom EP600 (13 hz, 16 anechoic) and adire parthenon which can hit 6Hz with ease (ok ok- parthenon is not a regular sub, but still). I would give more examples but svs and hsu sites are down, I'm pretty sure they both have models that go below 15hz. Even though we can't hear the musicality of the bass anymore below 20hz, you can still feel it for sure. I would still cut the bass frequencies off around 20hz though, just to make the mix sound alittle bit cleaner. Frequencies below that are great for explosions and movie applications, or live orchestra, but I wouldn't say that have any purpose being in trance music.

Ah, you're right. I got them mixed up. The Dynaudio BM12S 12" drops down to 18 Hz, whereas I seemed to recall this as 28 Hz. My bad. In that case, you could consider the subass range to be from 16 Hz - 33 Hz.

quote:

Originally posted by wayfinder your freqs are much, much too low. a deep bass is basically anything under ~90Hz, the mids of your bass will usually sit around 110-150, and higher parts will center around 250. Harmonic elements of your bass might cast their rays up to 1000, 1500Hz, and much higher if you have overtone rich or noisy basses.

Yes, you could look at it that way. I did say that none of my figures are technically correct, and it all depends on how you look at it and the particular music. I was only talking about the fundamental tones, which, in the deep music I prefer may lie in those ranges. Any overtones would surely lie in those higher ranges, and could be adjusted to shape any sounds there.

When talking about high bass on a sound system though, I typically consider this to be around 65 Hz, whereas low bass is more like 44 Hz and below. But, again, you might have a different way of seeing this.

quote:

Originally posted by fr0st I normaly cut from 35-40 and below anything below that you can really hear and for the most part it just rattles speakers. Believe it or not the bass you hear/feel for the most part is from 120-60. What is that guy talking about kicks at 60hz? That crazy most kicks 808/909 have all the presence from 130-80. I normaly LPF everything except for the kick and bass from 150-200hz they are really the only things that need to go that low...

Tutorials always tell you to roll off low frequencies like that, but it really does depend on the music. It's just the general idea to get you in the habit of rolling off the bass frequencies to make room for the kick and bass. Besides, if you apply hi-pass filters to each of the audio tracks during mixing, you won't need to use a low shelf when processing the master channel to correct any low frequency build-up at all.

So you don't simply want to "cut everything below 35-40", because it depends on the music. Also, if you're talking about individual tracks, on some you will have to cut as high as 131 or 262 Hz and below, while when processing just the master channel during mastering (only if you haven't used hi-pass filters on all but the kick and bass tracks during mixing), I would never recommend using a low shelving filter above 25 Hz or you'll screw the lower subbass frequencies up. Any remaining subbass abnormalities can then by fixed through peaking EQs.

120-60 Hz is exactly what I call high bass though. The type you hear on cheap stereos to make it seem as if the bass is loud (as these frequencies are easier (and thus louder) for the speakers to reproduce.

From my limited experience in rock music, those kicks may be as high as 98 Hz, but in dance music it really is rare I've seen a kick centred at higher than 65 Hz. 78 Hz perhaps, but around 55 Hz seems to be a favourite.

If you don't believe me, check any track with a spectrum analyser.

i tend not to eq the sub as it can sound 'forced' in the mix. a good sub tends only to be a sub anyway and not interfere with the rest of the composition.

rolling off the low's in other basses is however a very good idea

quote:

Originally posted by DickieThijssen Well, before you start a project you should always first consider what u want from your track, some considerations require four basslines some don't... The above & beyond basslines for instance often have 4 basslines, thats what make their tracks really 'filled'... I dont like that, i like some gaps now and then which makes it cooler to master it (easier to create that pumping sound)... In my believes, its also important to not use high freq 'basses' if u want to create anthem-tracks, because its important to use those freqs for lots of reverb, lots of compression and such... There are many more examples for selecting basslines in comparison with what you want... Correct me if im wrong btw, im still kinda newbie...

I was writing a reply and when i pressed send, the forum got an error, and i closed the window, so i will do it again since now i have the mood.

I have a counter argument for the A&B bass.

David forbes-questions must be asked.

This is a VERY VERY good example about what a good bassline is all about and it is 1 layer i believe .

Many think, and that if you have 4 layers and EQed all correctly that you have done your self a good bass and bassline. But is this true?

I am no engineer, and it's all about taste, but for me, the ESSENCE of a bass and bassline is to set the GROOVE in a track. ( thats why i mention david forbes-questions must be asked). A bassline is all about moving people on the dance floor, and moving the track to the direction you want. Also a bass delivers an indication what type of track is coming up.

When you are making a track and your working on your bass, if it is making your head go up and down without you knowing it, your on the right track then. Thats how i knew my bass from the sunquest remix (i gave it a new line) was good enough to consider it done. It made me move.

I never tend to bother my self about how to EQ it, i just do it and try to make the kick fit. And yes like Luke, but then again luke taught me about how to make a subbass in Reason, i don't EQ the subb. But if i find the bass not heavy enough i tend to boost the very low sometimes.

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