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Zahra's Blue Eyes

A new Iranian TV series, telling about how the israelis are harvesting organs of palestinian children.

this is not the first anti-semitic program produced in Iran\Egypt\Palestinians etc.
However, it does cross some red lines....

Official Article (Including video clips and translations)

Article 2

Article 3

so what do you think?...

(p.s. i'm sure others here will be able to provide articles about other shows like this one...i have lotsa exams now and cant find the time for this)

Sounds quite interesting actually!

Not sure why this is anti-semitic based on the articles you provide, as this seems to be anti-Israel not anti-Jew (altho I am sure many will take it that way, altho it is a little isulting to suggest the Iranians are too stupid to realise this is fiction)

While were on the subject, I would like to take this chance to denounce the bastard American anti-semites (anti-semitic to the British that is, altho I guess we are not as important as Jewish people to have our own special discriminatory word, so I guess racist will have to do) who, in every single bloody film have people like Hugh Grant or Emma Thomson with their stupid accents that practially no one in England ever hears, and then you get twats like Adam Sandler (come on he is a first class twat) putting his stupid English accent on like its no big deal WELL IT IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL YOU RACIST BASTARDS AND WE ARE SICK OF IT!!!!!!!

it's tea time, i'll respond later

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Sounds quite interesting actually! Not sure why this is anti-semitic based on the articles you provide, as this seems to be anti-Israel not anti-Jew (altho I am sure many will take it that way, altho it is a little isulting to suggest the Iranians are too stupid to realise this is fiction)

well the title of the second artice is : "ANTI-SEMITISM AND IRAN"

anyway ...it does reminds alot of older anti-semitism that includes tons of books and articles blaming jews for killing children and use their blood for their religious rituals. its the same motive, in a modern way.

and i am not saying that iranians are stupid to realize its fiction, but when you recieve enough amount of this kind of messeges it does make you think and start believing. watch the clips, there are some parts that aren't less than disgusting, and that do nothing rather than fill you with hatred. actually, sad history of the Holocust and attcks on jews in Russia 1900's and Euorope before WW2, proves this to be a fact.

look ... you can say its anti-israeli if it critices israeli actions or describes the difficult life of a palestinian etc. ....
but when you show israeli doctor that holds a syringe near a little girls eyes, ready for taking her eyes out... well its not realy agains israeli policy... rather agains israeli,jew people (most of which seen as religious jews wearing skullcaps).
i'll qoute something said in one of the clips by an israeli: "We are the best of the races in the world".

quote:

Originally posted by Flotser well the title of the second artice is : "ANTI-SEMITISM AND IRAN" anyway ...it does reminds alot of older anti-semitism that includes tons of books and articles blaming jews for killing children and use their blood for their religious rituals. its the same motive, in a modern way. and i am not saying that iranians are stupid to realize its fiction, but when you recieve enough amount of this kind of messeges it does make you think and start believing. watch the clips, there are some parts that aren't less than disgusting, and that do nothing rather than fill you with hatred. look ... you can say its anti-israeli if it critices israeli actions or describe the difficult life of a palestinian etc. .... but when you show israeli doctor that holds a syringe near a little girls eyes, ready for taking her eyes out... well its not realy agains israeli policy... rather agains israeli people (most of which seen as religious jews wearing skullcaps). i'll qoute something said in one of the clips by an israeli: "We are the best of the races in the world".

There are thousands of stories that follow similar lines ("Boys From Brazil" which you may be familiar with comes to mind) and obviously the Israelis have been singled out because they are not liked in Iran (and the rest of the Muslim world probably), but you have to ask whetehr this is due to Israeli policies or down to a hatred of Jews and I have seen no evidence to suggest the latter. It seems to be a trait of Israelis(/Jews) to believe Muslims have some kind of genetic hatred for the Jews, but if you look thru history, its not the case. The whole Muslim-Jew conflict came about in the run up to the independence of Israel. Muslims actually used to protect Jews during the Crusades, and the unfortunate ones that weren't were burned alive by the Christians - which is strange due to radical American Christians going to great lengths to show that Xtians and Jews are somehow "friends" (which I would argue is more to do with Cold War habits rather than religious beliefs)

Well, that was a lot of bullshit on my behalf, but at the end of the day, altho I am sure the aim is to give Israelis a bad name, the actual story does sound pretty good, and very similar to many many Hollywood films that nobody in their right minds would say were offensive, its just that in this particular story it is made by Muslims and portrays the Israelis, so it must be anti-semitic (from now on I think we should use "racist" instead of anti-semitic as one, anti-semitism is a pretty hollow term nowadays, and two, it can sometimes be used to justify other kinds of racism while at the same time criticisng racism towards Jews)

Have a look around the rest of the site...look under cartoons for a start...and then look under the other headings....i think a picture soon emerges as to the sites agenda...ill say no more...let others decide...but hardly partisan imo....

quote:

Originally posted by zig Have a look around the rest of the site...look under cartoons for a start...and then look under the other headings....i think a picture soon emerges as to the sites agenda...ill say no more...let others decide...but hardly partisan imo....

Having looked at some of those cartoons they are similar to the ones they show on the ADL website and there is definately an agenda. Its just anti-semitism gets thrown around so much it has, for me anyway, lost all meaning. Anti-semitism now merely means anti-Israel (which is a point of view you have a right to have) just like racism is going a similar way due to the PC people throwing it around like theres no tomorrow...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Having looked at some of those cartoons they are similar to the ones they show on the ADL website and there is definately an agenda. Its just anti-semitism gets thrown around so much it has, for me anyway, lost all meaning. Anti-semitism now merely means anti-Israel (which is a point of view you have a right to have) just like racism is going a similar way due to the PC people throwing it around like theres no tomorrow...

Well i have to agree you can hardly say BOO to an Isreali spokesperson ( <-- PC is contagious ) on TV or radio and the anti semitism card is soon showing its hand..but i find its usually when they have some difficult questions thrown at them that it seems to automatically be a reaction....ive also noticed recently (over here at least)the Simon Weiesenthal Centre or Institute (not sure) are getting pretty good at it as well..and i never really noticed that from their people before...but your right it soon wears thin and you switch off...maybe thats what they want?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Sounds quite interesting actually! Not sure why this is anti-semitic based on the articles you provide, as this seems to be anti-Israel not anti-Jew.

I agree with this. People throw the word 'anti-semetic' around a little to much when people are 'anti-israel'. If israelis have a problem with that, then israelies should have their government less aligned with the jewish religion. Its problem of their creation.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley While were on the subject, I would like to take this chance to denounce the bastard American anti-semites (anti-semitic to the British that is, altho I guess we are not as important as Jewish people to have our own special discriminatory word, so I guess racist will have to do) who, in every single bloody film have people like Hugh Grant or Emma Thomson with their stupid accents that practially no one in England ever hears, and then you get twats like Adam Sandler (come on he is a first class twat) putting his stupid English accent on like its no big deal WELL IT IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL YOU RACIST BASTARDS AND WE ARE SICK OF IT!!!!!!!

And i did not know this. Actually, I'm quite embarrased.

Out of curiousity, are they speaking with a Queen's English accent? How would you define it?

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange Out of curiousity, are they speaking with a Queen's English accent? How would you define it?

They speak posh, not like they speak round my end what so ever (and not like most places in the country either!)

If you would like to know how they speak where I live have a look thru the following and ask your self if you've heard em talk like that at the cinema!

http://www.psychol.ucl.ac.uk/nico/E...827-25-jan-1999

Look in the Arab world there is no difference between a Jew and an Israeli.

Live with it, this is how they view us.



Just look at PDD:

If a person is pro-Israel and defends the Israeli side, Arabs/Pro-Arabs will say: You are an Israeli, that is why you are pro-Israel.
Next, if you aren't an Israeli than they will say you are a Jew, that is why you are pro-Israel.

Its synanomous to them and it is synanomous to me too.

Israeli = Jew, Jew = Israeli, live with it, its a generalization yes, but we all think it, so lets stop pretending.

Now you can be against the Jews - thats ok.
And you can hate the Jews and wish their death - that's anti-semitism.

quote:

From an interview with the author: Ali Derakhshni: "Theodore [Yitzhak Cohen's son] is a boy who symbolizes Israel. He has lost his kidneys, and he was paralyzed, and he wanted to rebuild his body. "The major film companies are under the Zionists' influence. We are at the beginning of the road. Fortunately, the Iranian Islamic Republic and our Islamic regime have made many films and series like 'Zahra's Blue Eyes,' which is a film about children."

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley who, in every single bloody film have people like Hugh Grant or Emma Thomson with their stupid accents that practially no one in England ever hears, and then you get twats like Adam Sandler (come on he is a first class twat) putting his stupid English accent on like its no big deal

Dud, don't get all pissied at us because your a commoner

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Israeli = Jew, Jew = Israeli, live with it, its a generalization yes, but we all think it, so lets stop pretending. Now you can be against the Jews - thats ok. And you can hate the Jews and wish their death - that's anti-semitism.

that's not how i see it. when i think of israeli, i think of israelies or people living is israel, if you wish (not israeli citizens, but people who domicile there). this includes persons of various religions and denominations and on religious as well, jews (of all of the various branches), catholic christians, eastern orthodox christians, muslims (sunni and shias).

its too bad you even accept this generalization because its certainly makes worse any rational dialogue anyone can have on the mideast.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley They speak posh, not like they speak round my end what so ever (and not like most places in the country either!) If you would like to know how they speak where I live have a look thru the following and ask your self if you've heard em talk like that at the cinema! http://www.psychol.ucl.ac.uk/nico/E...827-25-jan-1999

Tha naws that link is hilarious . Next time I'm guinup, I'll read it again.

you don't like the world anti-semitism? whatever...

i also never said or believed that "Muslims have some kind of genetic hatred for the Jews" like you say George. no one is born with ideas like this film, people are educated into this way of thinking for a reason.

10000-100 years ago - the church was responsible for this education.
100 years ago - the russian kings were responsible for it.
65 years ago - well...

anti-semitsm is a tool that was proven, as an effective tool for inciting people into the level they are ready (or agree) to exterminate a whole race.
I think this series is sick, and i'm convinced that the responsible for its creation are the iranian goverment and muslim religious leadrs. this is how you create suicide bombers, this is how you convince people that killing isralis (jews) is an obligation.

quote:

People throw the word 'anti-semetic' around a little to much when people are 'anti-israel'

people are also throwing 'israeli-policy' around whenever they hear about anti-semitic actions on the news.
its so easy to blame israeli policy - suddenly its ok to demonize and spread hate. but i didnt mean to discuss it when i opened the thread. this series is sick in watever context you look at it, esspecialy in the contexs of anti-semitic motives used in history, but not only.

Jews arent the only semetic people. Arabs are semites too. So calling Arab's anti-semetic is kinda absurd. Unless you think they hate themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Jews arent the only semetic people. Arabs are semites too. So calling Arab's anti-semetic is kinda absurd. Unless you think they hate themselves.

not this again.

[bangs forehead into wall] [repeatedly]

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange its too bad you even accept this generalization because its certainly makes worse any rational dialogue anyone can have on the mideast.

Look Israel a democracy yes but firstly it is a Jewish nation.
If you and others can't accept this, there will never be any rational dialog in the middle east.

Anyway, its not the Iranian media that are the worst anti-semites (apparently...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St...1397723,00.html

Apparently according to the Ministry for the Diaspora the Guardian, Independent and BBC are the cause of the huge increase of anti-semitism in the UK

Obviously, describing Jenin as a massacre is a big no no, as only 58 people were killed (er...how many people were killed in the Munich "Massacre"? Oh they were Israelis not Arabs? Ok well that one can be described as a massacre then)

So, there you have it, anti-Israel = anti-semitism (in fact IIRC Ariel Sharon stated that anything anti-Israel would be considered anti-semitic). Therefore, anti-semitism is a meaningless hollow term...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Anyway, its not the Iranian media that are the worst anti-semites (apparently...) http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St...1397723,00.html

Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK.

Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started".

Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs".

Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11.

Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday.

There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK. Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started". Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs". Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11. Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday. There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

I dont think I really agree with you, why does "the IDF are dogs" translate into "Jews are dogs"? And I dont think saying the IDF are dogs is anti-semitic.

As for the UK, I don't think anti-semitism is any different to the more general racism. That woman you talked about would (more likely imo) say you dirty Paki, if the person who brushed up against her were asian. Most anti-semitic acts in the UK (and the rest of Europe) are committed by Muslims, not white people. People in this country (non-Muslims) who are anti-semitic are racist, ie, they dont like any race, its nothing special about Jewish people as the term anti-semitic would imply. Thats another reason I dont like the term

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I dont think I really agree with you, why does "the IDF are dogs" translate into "Jews are dogs"? And I dont think saying the IDF are dogs is anti-semitic.

From your article:

"You can't brainwash people for four years that Israel is an illegitimate country and that Israelis are like the Nazis and that Israelis are monsters and expect that nothing will happen to Jews."

quote:

As for the UK, I don't think anti-semitism is any different to the more general racism.

Look, just because you don't think it doesn't make others not think it.

You could be right about that women - and you could be wrong. I know examples of both cases.

Because your muslim populations attack Jews it is justifable to have anti-semtism?

Who do you think would most attribute the correlation between IDF are dogs and Jews are dogs, British muslims or Anglo-saxons?

Start understanding that muslims are part of your society and hence part of the responsbility of your society.

quote:

People in this country (non-Muslims) who are anti-semitic are racist, ie, they dont like any race, its nothing special about Jewish people as the term anti-semitic would imply. Thats another reason I dont like the term

This isn't true either - there is something special about the Jews because they are not only an ethnic group but a religious group too.

I have met people in the USA who love Jews but think black people should be enslaved. Not all racist have to be consistant.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Anti-semtism is real and is real in the UK. Just the other day I was speaking to a British Jewish girl who recounted a story to me when she was 13 year old she was returning from school (she went to a Jewish school which had distinct uniforms) on the underground and she accidently brushed up against the lady next to her. The girl turned around to apologize to the lady, when the lady said to her "You dirty Jew. To bad Hitler didn't finish wha he started". Now considering that human wisdom is what it is (people are typically not as clever as you or I) and that there is an obvious association between Jews and Israel, if somebody repeatedly says "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", "The IDF are dogs", it slowly translate to many as "The Jews are dogs", "The Jews are dogs". Just like at the USA - home of the best universities in the world - you tell people "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist", "Saddam is a terrorist". "Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11","Terrorist were responsibel for 9-11", "Terrorist were responsible for 9-11" you get people associating Saddam with 9-11. Its that simple - and thats how it works. People make a lot of assumptions like that everyday. There can be valid critism of the IDF: "I don't believe the IDF exercised proper restraint in Jenin", and there is borderline anti-semetic critism: "The IDF are dogs".

I think its very rare that you will find racists that are in any way exclusive as to the race they hate,they generally just hate all other racial groups other than their own,and even within their own racial group they will generally have hatred for minorities ie homosexuals lesbians etc like i said i dont think they are in any way exclusive with their hate....

And as for people who translate the IDF are dogs into jews are dogs i fail to grasp the connection myself....

I can get the connection between someone saying the IDF are dogs and someone translating that into meaning he dosnt agree with the Isreali governments policies on security or foriegn policy...but hardly jews are all dogs...i just dont get it

As for the point about about Saddam and 9/11....the republicans basically played on the fears Americans had after the attacks in the US..i doubt if the majorithy believe it now that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 thats if the majorithy believed it in the first place...and thats a seperate issue to the recent election or whats happening in Iraq today...

And besides havnt the Isrealis being trying for years to brainwash the rest of the world that we are anti semites if we dont agree with them......

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus From your article: "You can't brainwash people for four years that Israel is an illegitimate country and that Israelis are like the Nazis and that Israelis are monsters and expect that nothing will happen to Jews."

Yea but it was the Israeli minister's advisor that said it! Its not an admission from the paper!

quote:

Look, just because you don't think it doesn't make others not think it.

Ok let me rephrase that...it isn't any different to any other form of racism (dont gimme that religion + race crap cos its exactly the same over here for asians being synominous with Islam)

quote:

Because your muslim populations attack Jews it is justifable to have anti-semtism?

Sorry but when have I ever said anti-semitism was ok? It is the same as any other form of racism and I dont think any of that is ok (except against the French)

quote:

Who do you think would most attribute the correlation between IDF are dogs and Jews are dogs, British muslims or Anglo-saxons?

I think this is a silly example and not one that you can back up (and the left in this country hate Israel as much as, in your opinion, the Muslims do)

quote:

Start understanding that muslims are part of your society and hence part of the responsbility of your society.

Muslims in the Uk make up approximately 1% - 2% of the population, my point was as this is the section of society most anti-semitic acts are attributed to, it is hardly representative of the wider population is it? I hear racist things said about asians nearly everyday. It is a problem. Anti-semitism is practically unheard of but the minute examples you do get (racism is unfortunately innevitable and no race is immune) get blown up by the media to make it out its summat its not. In my life, I have heard somebody tell one anti-semitic joke (and even then he only told it cos he didn't understand it). Dont get me wrong, I'm sure there are people who just hate Jews, but there are a shit load more people that dont like Muslims/asians and that is where the problem in this country lies...there is probably more anti-semitism in your country than there is in mine!

quote:

This isn't true either - there is something special about the Jews because they are not only an ethnic group but a religious group too.

Sorry but why the hell would that make any difference? In that respect Jews are no different to Muslims as in this country the media/left have invented a new "ism" - Islamaphobia which is racism towards asians/Muslims (and Islamaphobia is about as bullshit as anti-semitism, they are the same thing)

quote:

I have met people in the USA who love Jews but think black people should be enslaved. Not all racist have to be consistant.

True in this country you will hear people saying they dont mind black people but they cant stand 'Pakis' (yet I have yet to hear anyone single out Jews as the one race they hate...)

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