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...and the Iraqi election presses on...

Democracy in Iraq (is coming)

A blog by an Iraqi on the future of Iraq, an Iraqi who is excited about a new democratic Iraq.

quote:

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Bloody Day - 4 Days Left Despite today being a very bad day for American soldiers, I believe over 30 died, I feel the pull of destiny stronger than ever. While the press is focusing on American deaths reaching a certain number, and we mourn all the dead who died for our freedom, it is at least comforting to know that the terrorists were not responsible for their deaths. The terrorists are getting weaker. The attacks they have carried out today were an anomoly, and if you look at statistics, attacks have been down. However, if there is anytime for them to have a resurgance it is now. I have long expected that terrorists would launch an offensive before the election, and i think we are seeing the start today. Still, despite the attacks on polling stations and other targets, the will of Iraqis to vote has never been stronger. Newspapers are publishing polls that are showing high expectations for the election, in some areas over 90% are promising to vote! all this despite the tricks of terrorists. Registration lines are starting to get more like shopping lines. In Baghdad, the rates of registration have been inconsistant, but on my way back from work today I saw a good number of people at the local governmental office taking part in the registration process. This only means that people are losing their fear of the terrorists. I only wish that the Sunni parties would stop the madness with their claims that Sunnis will be unable to vote! Sunnis are as able to vote as other Iraqis, the only thing restricting them is the parties themselves. This is one thing that is greatly worrying me. I get this sick fear in my stomach that these Sunni Parties that are boycotting the elections are going to ruin it. They will afterwards cry that they were not fully involved, and ignore their own stupid and childish boycott!!! Just watch. The one thing that Iraq needs more than democracy right now is good leadership. Unfortunately, among the Sunnis such leadership is rare. How good can a democracy be if the leaders aren't good. This is an issue that I have not pondered before, but that I am realizing is very important. All hope is not lost with the Sunnis though. There are some Sunni parties that are still involved. More important is the actual participation of Sunni citizens. I see their numbers rising, and polls back me up. The existance of unified Iraqi parties, meaning ones that do not cater to a specific faction is a godsend because these will probably gain a lot of vote from Sunnis, and secular Shias and some Kurds. I hope that this will put them into power, as they seek to form a constitution that seeks equality, that is secular, and which avoids tribalism, secterianism and ethnic problems.

>> Source <<

And of course there is always the possibility of...


But my hope (like the Iraqi above me) is that Iraqis are tired of the tyranny that theocracy brought them.
Guess we'll just have to sit back and see what the Iraqis do.

Re: ...and the Iraqi election presses on...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Democracy in Iraq (is coming) A blog by an Iraqi on the future of Iraq, an Iraqi who is excited about a new democratic Iraq. >> Source << But my hope (like the Iraqi above me) is that Iraqis are tired of the tyranny that theocracy brought them. Guess we'll just have to sit back and see what the Iraqis do.

Damn, that's one lucky Iraqi!

I mean, he has a computer in which to blog, to thoroughly research the Iraqi candidates (I'm sure he wishes.) He's l33t, just for the fact that he's among the 0.002% of Iraqi's that can afford extravagances such as computers and internet.

I'm sure he's excited, but wonder how he's going to decide who the best candidate is among soooo many parties and candidates.

Something tells me that Iraqi doesn't live in this part of Fallujah.



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...lc61885e_photo2




I wonder if they put up a voting booth on that street.

Re: Re: ...and the Iraqi election presses on...

I'm not holding out hopes of this election either delivering a truly fair outcome (considering many areas in the Sunni triangle are not safe places to vote and many Sunni parties have refused to run) or putting an end to the insurgency (why would these 200,000 mainly Sunni people stop fighting when a Shiite government is elected?).

May or may not be relevent, but I just wrote this on another forum, so I may as well share it here (in response to this article about the aggreived Sunni population from the Guardian):

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I think all this highlights is, once again, just how much the coalition misread the situation in Iraq prior to the invasion. They didn't seem to think that trying to enforce a centralised, democratic governmental system on what is, essentially, three unique socio-religious groups with three very different ideologies and aims would be a problem. These sorts of cultural sensitivities were never properly addressed and the messy situation we're seeing now is - in part at least - a manifestation of said insensitivity to the scale of the cultural diversity in Iraq that, for all intents and purposes, had only been held together for the previous 80 odd years due to the hard-handed rule of the British followed the tyranny of Saddam Hussein. I can remember reading an article written by a Muslim professor shortly after the fall of Baghdad, explaining how democracy could best be brought to Iraq (and this wasn't an anti-war article, it was a genuinely optimistic article about bringing democracy to a country that had been denied it for so long). His argument was that the Iraqi people would be more responsive to a more localised style of government where communities would vote for their own officials who would then run the communities as a council, say, would run communities in the west. While these "councils" would still be answerable to a centralised government, who would also be voted for by the people, they would still - within reason - be allowed a degree of autonomy to ensure that localised culture could be preserved and that these sorts of "culture clashes" could be more easily avoided. So while there would still be a united Iraq with a united, representative government, there would be limits placed on the power this government could have on a more local level and communities could be governed by the people they voted for. This way, democracy is allowed to flourish without any of danger of the "tyranny of the majority" emerging as it does so often in the west. But, of course, this sort of system would never do. It had to be Jeffersonian democracy or nothing, because everyone knows that Jeffersonian democracy is the only "correct" democratic system in the world. Even though this was always going to mean that a Shiite government would be elected much to the chagrin of the Kurds and the Sunnis, it has to be persisted with because that's "democracy", isn't it? Never mind that this "one-vote, one candidate, whoever gets the most votes wins and governs over everyone" concept is probably a foreign, undesirable concept to many Iraqis, it had to be instituted at all costs and now - with many Sunnis refusing to participate - we're starting to see the system fail when it all could have been avoided with some degree of cultural sensitivity and flexible thinking.

Also:

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Originally posted by Trancer-X parties and candidates

Just look at how many of the candidates were exiled in the west for decades, lived and studied in the west for decades, or both. How are these people possibly the best representatives of the Iraqi population? If you were an Iraqi citizen, wouldn't you want a leader that has lived in your country for most of - if not all of - their lives and who can properly understand the challenges that the nation faces? How can someone who's been exiled for 30 years possibly be in tune with the current national psyche?

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Originally posted by josh4 Something tells me that Iraqi doesn't live in this part of Fallujah. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...lc61885e_photo2 I wonder if they put up a voting booth on that street.

What bothers me is you guys think every corner of Iraqi looks like that and that they live in the stone age still looking for someone to give them that great invention called 'the wheel'...
They drive cars, own cell phones and yes...computers...

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Originally posted by josh4 Something tells me that Iraqi doesn't live in this part of Fallujah. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...lc61885e_photo2 I wonder if they put up a voting booth on that street.

I wonder what will hapen if they put you on that street.
hahahah

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r They drive cars, own cell phones and yes...computers...

In 2002, only 45 thousand out of a population of over 25 Million had internet service. I take it you didn't bother to click on my link.

And I'm sure that there's someone in Turkmenistan who has a computer too, but that definitely doesn't mean that it's the norm over there. I honestly don't think anyone was ever disputing that they actually might have such modernities such as cars.

LOL

2002??

Damn guy...that's a life cycle of a computer!! lol

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What bothers me is you guys think every corner of Iraqi looks like that and that they live in the stone age still looking for someone to give them that great invention called 'the wheel'... They drive cars, own cell phones and yes...computers...

So what you're saying is only the upper class well-to-do Iraqis will be able to participate in the election.

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Originally posted by Dunya I wonder what will hapen if they put you on that street. hahahah

I'd probably either die of starvation or get shot like many people before me.

can someone please tell me how iraqi's who dont live there are allowed vote?

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Originally posted by Michael19 can someone please tell me how iraqi's who dont live there are allowed vote?

Most countries allow that. I bet Eire also does.

Voting rights are based on CITIZENSHIP not RESIDENCY.

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Originally posted by josh4 So what you're saying is only the upper class well-to-do Iraqis will be able to participate in the election. I'd probably either die of starvation or get shot like many people before me.

No...I'm saying that but posting that picture some people think the whole country is like that since that's all we seem to see thanks to our sensationalist media...
Where did I say only well-to-do could vote?
I would have thought you'd be asking Trancer-X that since he thinks internet stats are relevant to voting? I dunno...if someone could find out what that coorelation is supposed to mean...
(All I said was that they have computers and basically aren't beating their laundry off rocks)

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Originally posted by Michael19 can someone please tell me how iraqi's who dont live there are allowed vote?

No different from Canadians or Americans who are out of their country during a time of vote...
>> Source <<

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r No...I'm saying that but posting that picture some people think the whole country is like that since that's all we seem to see thanks to our sensationalist media... Where did I say only well-to-do could vote? I would have thought you'd be asking Trancer-X that since he thinks internet stats are relevant to voting? I dunno...if someone could find out what that coorelation is supposed to mean... (All I said was that they have computers and basically aren't beating their laundry off rocks)

The correlation (since you're obviously too simpleminded to realize this on your own) is that Iraq is for the most part devoid of a free press (or any true mass media for that matter.) Mass media which would be instrumental in promoting discussion or deliberation - something which would also include the internet.

Democracy requires a well informed, actively participating citizenry. Otherwise, you will wind up with just another Tammany Hall scenario. The Neo-cons are content with that because they're just looking for another puppet government in which to further our oil agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X The correlation (since you're obviously too simpleminded to realize this on your own) is that Iraq is for the most part devoid of a free press (or any true mass media for that matter.) Mass media which would be instrumental in promoting discussion or deliberation - something which would also include the internet.

What does free press have to do with me saying they have computers and cars?
What are you going on about?
I state a simple fact that they do have computers despite mass media's contrary depiction. End of discussion.
You start narcoleptically babbling on about internet statistics and free press??
Where are you going with that arguement anyways, besides arguing with yourself?

quote:

Democracy requires a well informed, actively participating citizenry. Otherwise, you will wind up with just another Tammany Hall scenario.

True.
Saddam and his goons were a great example of, "The Gangs of Bagdad"...
However, Saddam wasn't giving immigrants food, shelter and a job in return for votes.
He simply use executions and fear to keep his own people in line...

quote:

The Neo-cons are content with that because they're just looking for another puppet government in which to further our oil agenda.

[insert Dr.Evil voice here]Riiiiight....
Lots of conspiracy theories on this...no facts...
But why not bang that, "No War for Oil" hippie drum some more for the Neo-con boogie-men?
Heck, if we can't explain it, it has to be the Neo-cons!!
They control everything!
I mean, for lunch today I was going to order a soup and salad but was then strangley influenced to get a burger and fries? Why is that? Did the planets align? Must be those damn neo-cons!

Does anyone else want to take over this argument? I'm actually growing tired of having to repeat myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What does free press have to do with me saying they have computers and cars? What are you going on about? I state a simple fact that they do have computers despite mass media's contrary depiction. End of discussion. You start narcoleptically babbling on about internet statistics and free press??p

Free Press has everything to do with an informed population. Iraq is devoid of a free press - and only wealthy Iraqi's have internet access (Internet is another instrument for the dissemination of information, if you haven't figured that out by now.)

Just as I had previously posted the links to information regarding some of the parties and candidates running in this Iraqi election, 99.99% of all Iraqi's lack the means to access that information.

An uninformed population trying to make an informed voting decision equates to a charade of an election.

Now please don't keep running around in circles in your futile attempt at debate; not only is it annoying, but your proud ignorance regarding the matter is becoming rather deplorable.


BTW - just so that you don't make the same mistake again, narcolepsy is a disease which causes the afflicted person to randomly fall to sleep. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with someone clamoring in the midst of an argument.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r No different from Canadians or Americans who are out of their country during a time of vote... >> Source <<

if an american has been living in another country for 10yrs can he still vote in the american election?


thats seems really stupid. someone who doesnt live there, has no right to decide who runs the country i think.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Lots of conspiracy theories on this...no facts... But why not bang that, "No War for Oil" hippie drum some more for the Neo-con boogie-men?

Actually, the facts are everywhere. They've been trying to get to Iraq's oil for decades. If you want, I can post (more than a few dozen sources of) that information when I have more time either tonight or tomorrow.

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Originally posted by Michael19 if an american has been living in another country for 10yrs can he still vote in the american election? thats seems really stupid. someone who doesnt live there, has no right to decide who runs the country i think.

They would have to maintain citizenship in order to vote. It's frivolous if you ask me, but a citizen is a citizen I guess, so let them vote!

Trancer its not worth it

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Originally posted by josh4 Trancer its not worth it

Yeah, you're probably right.

Iraqis are gonna vote. They don't care about insurgents attacking them while they do so, they live with them every day. As a matter of fact, they know who they are. Why they allow them to kill fellow Iraqis is beyond me.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 if an american has been living in another country for 10yrs can he still vote in the american election? thats seems really stupid. someone who doesnt live there, has no right to decide who runs the country i think.

I think until that civilian has changed their citizenship then yes they would still be technically able to vote for their countries constituents...

Notably quiet around here this morning! Perhaps because even the BBC has used the word "success." God bless these people:

With tears rolling down her eyes, a veiled Iraqi woman shows off her finger stained with blue ink and a small card reading 'Elect Iraq ' after she cast her vote in a polling station in Amman, January 30, 2005. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji

(beautiful)

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