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-- Mixing OUT of a breaks song?
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Mixing OUT of a breaks song?

If I try and mix into a breaks song I do it pretty well.

Mixing out??? Blech! I am fucking horrible!!!! Its driving me nuts.

case in point...

last night mixing in Quivver - Boz Boz was dead on..fit the set perfect, mixing was tight, didnt need to correct...

mixing out of it? HAHAHA. Choo Choo!!!

Maybe try beatmatching the claps on the trance song to the snare on the breaks track.

If I ever have a problem mixing a breaks track its usually mixing it into a set. Mixing out of one is always easier to me. I find its easier to match up a straight 4/4 into a breaks track than mixing a broken beat into another broken beat or straight 4/4.

easiest way is to work the EQs.

quote:

Originally posted by zizack If I ever have a problem mixing a breaks track its usually mixing it into a set. Mixing out of one is always easier to me. I find its easier to match up a straight 4/4 into a breaks track than mixing a broken beat into another broken beat or straight 4/4.

everyone i talk to tells me its easier for them to mix out of a breaks track then into one.

for me its the opposite. i dont get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Greedy easiest way is to work the EQs.

How does that help if you don't have the songs matched.

I don't have problems mixing in and out of breaks its all 4/4 so its the same to me. The only thing is when I'm mixing breaks instead of four to the floor stuff is it takes me longer to realize I have to make corrections. I just need more practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Greedy easiest way is to work the EQs.

i work the eq's pretty good. for me its the beat matching. its never on when i mix out.

For some crazy reason, I can mix breakbeat with breakbeat, and also in and out of 4/4 beats without any problems, mixing 4/4 to 4/4 is harder for me, don't get it, maybe I'm meant to be a full on Breakbeat boy.

break beat is a lil easier to mix because its more forgiving thanks to the syncopated beats and doesnt sound so bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Greedy break beat is a lil easier to mix because its more forgiving thanks to the syncopated beats and doesnt sound so bad.

i never feel that way. to me if something is not beatmatched, its not beatmatched. for proggy breaks, even though there is no 1-2-3-4, there is always a beat there to keep the track in time, even if its every 4th beat or something. whichever it is, if it is off, it is off.

i just cant seem to "hear" that beat i need to keep in time when i am mixing out of a breaks song.

quote:

Originally posted by Greedy break beat is a lil easier to mix because its more forgiving thanks to the syncopated beats and doesnt sound so bad.

I think its harder because I can hear four to the floor tracks drifting and correct them alot quicker than I can hear my breaks drift. If you start to wreck it doesn't sound as terrible but it still sounds pants. I guess what I'm saying its its slightly tougher for me to ride the pitch when mixing breaks.

The thing to remember when mixing breaks is that even though it there arent four kicks in a row like trance or house, it still follows the same rules. You can beatmatch based on the highhats, or whatever you find easiest, but if you remember that breakbeat basically follows the same rules and structures as house, except their is a missing kick or two.

I dont know, works for me.

quote:

Originally posted by CosmoKid everyone i talk to tells me its easier for them to mix out of a breaks track then into one. for me its the opposite. i dont get it.

i REALLY REALLY REALLY know where you're coming from. when i got it down the first, time, mixing a breaks track in perfectly, i felt invincible. then i tried to mix out... and felt like a big pile of shit. heh

here's how i got it down: you have to forget about beats, hats, snares, or claps (well, sure, they help), but eventually, you can use percs and mix out of breaks second nature, however, the way i did it was one day, i had: Chable & Bonicci - Before You Beat My Box, playing at a friends house, he was asleep, so i thought "ah well, he won't notice me fucking up", and i looked for a record with a real blatant and abrasive bassline. FC Kahuna - Nothing is Wrong. i suggest electro, with simple, yet hard and dominant bass loop.

anyways, cue up your 4/4 track, let it go on beat, and then have both tracks play in the phones. kill the kicks if necessary, as they may confuse you. just listen if the bass loop is coming in too quick, or too slow. correct accordingly. and practice.

eventually, you'll just mix music, not think of breaks or 4/4. this method may help your beatmatching, but remember that EQing with breaks is different than with 4/4s, and should be evaluated on a case to case basis, so, just keep at it.

quote:

For some crazy reason, I can mix breakbeat with breakbeat, and also in and out of 4/4 beats without any problems, mixing 4/4 to 4/4 is harder for me, don't get it, maybe I'm meant to be a full on Breakbeat boy.

i get this too. but the mixing experience i have is all hardcore, freeform, drum and bass and breakbeat. mixing in and out of breaks i dont find any more difficult that mixing into or out of 4/4 or just mixing straight 4/4 kicks. its the mixing in general that i find problematic. heh.

seriously though, getting yourself some freeform records and a few breakbeat ones is a good idea. freeform quite often has breaks and 4/4. most freeform is designed to be played on 45 speed. but you can get away with +6 or 7 on 33 speed and it doesnt sound stupid (although its debateable that freeform doesnt sound stupid played at the speed it was intended. heheheh. i do luvs me hardcore). so it'll fit into fast breakbeat. or you can do it with drum and bass as long as you dont mind 180 bpm mash ups. you will get seriously fecking good at mixing into/out of breaks cuz of the way freeform intros are often combos of 4/4 kicks and breakbeats (sometimes both together).

common breakbeats:

K--- ---- --K- ----
---- S--- ---- S---

most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute.

K-K- ---K --K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

K--K ---- --KK ----
---- S--- ---- S---

in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like

K-K- ---- ---- ----
---- S--- -S-- ----

or

K-K- ---- ---- ----
---- S--S -SS- -S-S

theres plenty more but the basic idea is there.

4/4 kicks ala trance looks like

K--- K--- K--- K---
---- S--- ---- S---

which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap).

ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like

K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K-

you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast.

this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this:

K-K- ---K --K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note:

K-K- --K- K-K- --K-
---- S--- ---- S---

thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note.

in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*...

in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative common breakbeats: K--- ---- --K- ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute. K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- K--K ---- --KK ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--- -S-- ---- or K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--S -SS- -S-S theres plenty more but the basic idea is there. 4/4 kicks ala trance looks like K--- K--- K--- K--- ---- S--- ---- S--- which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap). ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K- you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast. this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this: K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note: K-K- --K- K-K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note. in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*... in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

way too much to read... just keep practicing...

edit: I did read it

i do agree that i should probably spend more time practicing mah beatmatching rather than typing up huge tuts on how to mix out of breaks. but in the absense of any decks in my room, it makes me feel like im doing something productive and musical. hah!

woah man that made by brain hurt and i've been playing drums since the 6th grade

quote:

Originally posted by Zild woah man that made by brain hurt and i've been playing drums since the 6th grade

Yea man.. I only said I read it, doesn't mean I comprehended it very well..

I have a few hip-hop and breaks songs that are a bitch to mix because they have snares going crazy all over the place. Or they'll just have a snare on the two and then on like the 3.5 beat instead of the two and the four.

most breaks songs will have more snares yes, but those are the ones you single out with your ears. theres more than just simple off hats in trance and yet you can make the off outs between kick drums. same with breaks. and come on! if you've been drumming you'll know exactly what i mean! whats so hard to understand about it?

I know exactly what you mean because I've been drumming I just think you made it a little bit confusing though. I'm talking stuff like Aphex Twins that has snares and rolls and all sorts of precussion all over the place but is still in 4/4.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative common breakbeats: K--- ---- --K- ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- most breakbeats are variatiosn on the above although get used to hearing these variations because you want to be able to line up 4/4 kicks with them. ill explain in a minute. K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- K--K ---- --KK ---- ---- S--- ---- S--- in most cases the snare is similar to the clap in 4/4 kick type music but occassionally they'll surprise you with something like K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--- -S-- ---- or K-K- ---- ---- ---- ---- S--S -SS- -S-S theres plenty more but the basic idea is there. 4/4 kicks ala trance looks like K--- K--- K--- K--- ---- S--- ---- S--- which is the most common set up (it is actually a very simple breakbeat in a way only the snare is more often a clap). ok. bop your head to the kick drum. nice and easy. just get into a rhythym. now do it twice as fast so you are nodding like K-K- K-K- K-K- K-K- you are now bopping your head in 1/8th intervals in time with the beat. you cant really nod to every one just nod forward and bring it back on the next, then forward again etc. its just too fast. this is more the kind of interval you looking to beatmatch parts of the drums to. going back to this: K-K- ---K --K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- its a variation of a classic rock and roll drumbeat: a down beat every 1/8th with an upbeat (snare hit) every 2nd quarter note: K-K- --K- K-K- --K- ---- S--- ---- S--- thats all in 1/8ths so its an easy breakbeat to beat match into 4/4 time. its exactly the same as a 4/4 beat only twice as fast. note that you can bop to this just like you would any trance tune. your head comes down every downbeat (every 1/4 note) and up every alternating note. you can nod like this to most breakbeats and get the kick drum in trance to hit every time your head comes down on every 1/4 note. in trance theres normally a line of hihats that go in 1/8ths and you can sometimes beatmatch to them. or you can do what i do and beatmatch every kick in the 4/4 song to every 2nd beat in a breaks song of this type. *but*... in some breaks (alot of the ones above) certain beats 'swing.' the more you hear them the more you'll get a feel for them but the principle is always the same. you will always have the first K of a drum loop as a reference point. 90% of the time you will have a snare every 1/4 note. so queue it off on the first downbeat of the drum loop. when it loops around and starts again, listen for if your 4/4 tune lands a kick exactly on the downbeat. if the downbeat hit before the first beat of the breaks tune, its too fast and you gotta slow it down. its just like mixing any other tune really only with breaks you have to think about in terms of drum loops. and using the first point, or certain points of that loop as reference points. just break it down. then its easy.

whoa. damn man. i read it, understood it for the most part. thanks.

my problem isnt necessarily knowing what element of the track to use when beatmatching. if you put a breaks song on I can tap in time and hear what is keeping the beat (s, k). for some reason i feel like i dont hear it when i start mixing in my next song.

maybe since its not an obvious kick that when i mix in a 4x4 which has a repetitive kick it throws me off.

You just need more practice then. It comes with time.

try not to over-focus when you're mixing... just put the 2 tracks in your headphones and flow, regardless of breaks, 4/4, etc... just relax and play with the pitch till it sounds good. i mix best when i'm not trying too hard.

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