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-- Do you increase the DB when mastering?

Do you increase the DB when mastering?

In one of the sticky threads, there is a link to a mastering tutorial that says you should never increase the DB to make your track louder when mastering. If you increase during your mix, it gets crackly and such. So my question is, why wouldnt you just increase the DB?

Well, I always hardlimit my mixes using the waves L2 - as the final stage. Simply juicing up the input level will just add distortion. I dunno if I aswered you question, but..

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Originally posted by Beijer Well, I always hardlimit my mixes using the waves L2 - as the final stage. Simply juicing up the input level will just add distortion. I dunno if I aswered you question, but..

Well that might answer my question from my other thread, why i may be getting crackling (distortion noises), but what i dont understand is how come it only happens at certain points and is not consistent.

There might be some points where the mix exceeds 0dB.. For example you have a crash that isn't well compressed, it might push the mix over that point. I always limit my mixes to -3dB more or less in fl, and normalize it in a waveditor, before I apply mastering. That way I'm sure there won't be any clipping. It might be a bad way of doing it, but that's the way I'm doing it anyway!

how can you master after you normalise your mix, you need headroom!

I add a multiband compressor first. That gives me headroom, then I add eq - then I maximize. Works pretty well for me.

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Originally posted by Beijer I add a multiband compressor first. That gives me headroom, then I add eq - then I maximize. Works pretty well for me.

I suggest going about it the other way around. If you compress first and then EQ, you end up 'distorting' the waveform again by creating 'spikes' as you boost or cut frequencies.

First EQ the track if it hasn't been mixed down properly, and then strap a multiband compressor across it. After that you can use a limiter.

That's not a bad idea. I didn't think it would be a problem though, as I usually just cut freqs when mastering. I'll try to add the multiband compressor after eq, and see if it's any different.

Cheers

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Originally posted by Beijer That's not a bad idea. I didn't think it would be a problem though, as I usually just cut freqs when mastering. I'll try to add the multiband compressor after eq, and see if it's any different. Cheers

Oddly enough, cutting frequencies can still cause the waveform to increase in other places.

Compressing after equalising in this context is something I started doing a while ago after I thought about what I was actually doing. And I can tell you the results are far superior, since it allows you to actually 'grab' all of the audio effectively by reducing everything down, without any stray peaks appearing later on to mess the compression effect up.

this is usually my process..

1. tiny EQ cuts on the entire mix
2. multiband comp
3. limit to around -2dB never limit to 0dB as this can cause distortion on some (older) cd players

man. i dont master at all. i kind of do that on the fly. and im always right up against 0 dB. squashing every last bit of headroom out of my track. no holding stuff back for later. har har! i just bounce and thats that. probably a very bad way of doing things though :O

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Originally posted by Derivative man. i dont master at all. i kind of do that on the fly. and im always right up against 0 dB. squashing every last bit of headroom out of my track. no holding stuff back for later. har har! i just bounce and thats that. probably a very bad way of doing things though :O

probably yeah


Well the EQing before compression is a true thing but remeber that you have the possibility to compress, EQ and then compress again to level things out a bit. Works fine for me if it's needed (although a good mixdown should only need EQ and then compression but we don't live in a perfect world )

yea thats what i tend to do. i have compressors on everything. and a tendancy to compress the living shit out of anything on top of that. i think its becoming a problem. the bassline from my last track is compressed twice on a dedicated mixer channel and again in the master channel. it feels pretty warm though and my ears arent complaining too much...yet

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Originally posted by serp this is usually my process.. 1. tiny EQ cuts on the entire mix 2. multiband comp 3. limit to around -2dB never limit to 0dB as this can cause distortion on some (older) cd players

I'm sure you mean -0.2 dB.

As for compressing twice: True, though I'm personally against doing so much compression. I suppose some mixes would call for it, though. If so I would probably tell whoever made the track to go back and make another mix.

Oh and by the way, to answer the original topic question: Sure you can. I often receive mixes that require mastering, which haven't been mixed down all that well, and I can easily end up boosting up to around 1-1.5 dB if needed. Still, I cut far more than I boost, as it should be.

Or wait, is this topic about EQing, or limiting?

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Originally posted by Atlantis_AR I'm sure you mean -0.2 dB. As for compressing twice: True, though I'm personally against doing so much compression. I suppose some mixes would call for it, though. If so I would probably tell whoever made the track to go back and make another mix.

hha yes ! oops

well to much compression should always be avoided if possible since it can get pretty rough for your ears if it's overdone.

when it comes to EQing I tend to work after a general rule of thumb, if you need to boost or cut more than 1db then redo the mixdown. I've noticed that most bedroom producers do to much EQing in the mastering process instead of just going back and redo the mix.

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, never mix up the mixing and mastering!

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Originally posted by Vizay well to much compression should always be avoided if possible since it can get pretty rough for your ears if it's overdone. when it comes to EQing I tend to work after a general rule of thumb, if you need to boost or cut more than 1db then redo the mixdown. I've noticed that most bedroom producers do to much EQing in the mastering process instead of just going back and redo the mix. I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, never mix up the mixing and mastering!

exactly

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well to much compression should always be avoided if possible since it can get pretty rough for your ears if it's overdone.

really? i find it does the opposite. cuz it reduces dynamic range i find theres less big sharp spikes of sound which rip into your ears. compressing my hats seems to reduce some of the sharpness and the sibilance and makes them tighter, snappier and more playable at higher levels without fatigue.

my old tracks are waaay harsher on my ears than my new ones. the old ones before i even knew what compressors were. they really destroy your ears...

I think Vizay meant that overcompressed tracks get your ears tired on the long term, as it's always loud and smack in the face even during breaks.

yea but that depends on how you compress it. if you just have a brickwall compressor where the idea is to get the absolute loudest possible sound ever then yea it'll probably caine your ears and it'll be clipped to fuck. use a soft knee and keep the gain down and you can smooth things out a bit.

lol, think of it this way, what would be more painful to listen to... a dentists drill for a minute straight or a dentists drill one second at a time at 5 second intervals (for a minute), vaugue i know but it basically explains the theory behind it

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Originally posted by staticblue I think Vizay meant that overcompressed tracks get your ears tired on the long term, as it's always loud and smack in the face even during breaks.

youu that was my point, I was a bit vague about it wich might have been a bit clumsy of me
thanks for pointing it out for me

of course compression in the right ammounts can be a really good thing. As you mentioned derivative a perfect ammount of compression on for example a hat just makes it easier to listen to.

But even though your'e not talking brick wall compression I think it's better to stay off heavy compression as far as it's possible, you have to remember that a track without any dynamics at all is a very boring track. You have to find that perfect balance between to much and to little compression. It's a matter of making the trac keasy on your ears without destroying all the dynamics

I'm starting to understand why people call this a black art

The subjective loudness of popular CD's range from as much as 10-12db. Am I the only one who has a problem with this or is everyone deaf? Take any two CD's and you'll be reaching for the volumn as one is lifeless and dull while the other one jumps out at you.

For a proffesional industry (and I use the term professional loosely here) I think it's unnacceptable, especially in comparison to film leveling practices (which are all standardised mind you). Within the last 8 years, CD's are starting to sound shiiter and shitter. Some are so fucking loud and distorted that the average volumn is almost as high as the peak. With that in mind, who gives a shit whether you compress before you eq, just compress it until it's a square wave. That's all mastering is about.

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Originally posted by Rob The subjective loudness of popular CD's range from as much as 10-12db. Am I the only one who has a problem with this or is everyone deaf? Take any two CD's and you'll be reaching for the volumn as one is lifeless and dull while the other one jumps out at you. For a proffesional industry (and I use the term professional loosely here) I think it's unnacceptable, especially in comparison to film leveling practices (which are all standardised mind you). Within the last 8 years, CD's are starting to sound shiiter and shitter. Some are so fucking loud and distorted that the average volumn is almost as high as the peak. With that in mind, who gives a shit whether you compress before you eq, just compress it until it's a square wave. That's all mastering is about.

No, I have a big problem with it too.

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